Closed) collaboration

[marvelescent]

Hello all, I'm going to help my friend reach a wider audience with her poetry. She's been writing for a while, and continues to write very often. You can

She would just need an artist who can turn words into art. It isn't necessarily a story, more of an artistic expression, although, as a lesbian, you would to be ok with gl. I can't say what her idea for the art representations would be, but that can be talked about after if you're interested.
The position would be unpaid, and should be seen as an opportunity to broaden your portfolio and get eyes on your art. Many artists may be considered, as this is a very loose experiment and experience. There isn't any pressure for featured or anything of that nature, just spreading some words and art to each the masses. Let me know, and if you aren't interested, but enjoy any of her poems, please send her some love thank you.

[punkarsenic]

some points:

1. asking artists to turn your friends poems into comics unpaid is really disrespectful
2. for advancing her poetry career, she's better off gigging and doing youtube (take this from a national poetry slam champion)
3. for advancing her practice, if she's actually interested in poetry comics, she should do it herself. if she's not, don't do them, what will it add to her practice?

heres a place to start on poetry comics:

http://www.sidekickbooks.com/overtheline.php

[marvelescent]

I feel you're actually being disrespectful. It's one thing to express disinterest, and for everyone else to not be interested. But for the possible few who are, we're speaking to them. Trying to speak for everyone's interest by putting down our question for a collaboration isn't really helpful. I appreciate the advice for a better opportunity, but you never know what can be made from this effort. This is a creative forum, we are creative people, we're looking to see if anyone is interested as well. If not, then so be it, but don't just say it won't work, and then call it disrespectful. If money came from it, oof course money would be dispersed. But if she can have a platform, and the other person interested can as well, who is that hurting and who is that disrespecting?

[NanettesClouds]

In your bio you wrote that your Fiance is a comic artist and I'm wondering if you've approached them about this project? Colab's always go better if they're among people who actually know eachother.

As for advancing your friends poetry career, I would listen to @punkarsenic on that one, they teach youth poetry workshops and have won national poetry competitions.

Besides that though, from my experience - the only career that making comics is good at advancing is a comic career.

[punkarsenic]

im not expressing disinterest - poetry comics are my jam and id be excited to see whatever your friend creates! but asking for unpaid labour explicitly in service of somebody else's career is extremely disrespectful. if i told you i had a house that i wanted to sell for profit, so i wanted you to fit all new windows, for free - how would you feel?

you might not be aware that the forums actually have a massive problem with 'draw my comic for free' threads. we have reached a consensus as a community that they are disrespectful and fruitless

and i repeat: for her own practice and development as a poet, she should do it herself. it will be a truly great learning experience, i highly recommend reading that book i linked to to learn more

[SleepingPoppy]

I feel you're actually being disrespectful.

I'm of two minds. On one hand, it doesn't hurt to ask. On the other.. your friend is a total stranger to us. They're not even publishing their poetry on tapas. I can understand unpaid collaboration between community members way more than for a total stranger. If your friend wants art, why shouldn't she be expected to pay for it?

(also your post kinda starts to sound like an "I'll pay you in exposure" which I realize was unintentional on your part, but will throw up red flags to most artists)

[marvelescent]

Well, he is in the military and is also putting our his comic every 2 weeks. This was just an offer outward to see of anyone is interested. As I said, I appreciate the advice, but to just come here and say it won't work, isn't a good idea, and is disrespectful, before it has a chance to become something at all isn't the helpful part. And anyone who would be interested coming here and seeing only negative right off would turn tail without even speaking without about it. I write my fiance's comic and do lighting and shading with him, and am writing my own as well, but coming to the collaboration area, even for my own, people only comment to dissuade me and I dont understand that part of this forum.

[marvelescent]

I understand that, but what's wrong with trying? Not every writer or artist is of professional stature, and yet, when any of us low tier new people are trying to collaborate, the only responses have been people coming to tell us what's wrong with our post, and the red flags in our "business plans", further dissuading interested people. As I said in my previous response above, even in a situation where I'm as determined as the artist, willing to help the artist, patient and understanding, coming with ideas, but aware that theres no guarantee of us hitting gold with our project, I'm always met with discouragement. I'd rather have people interested tell me, "hmmm, never mind I would rather something paid or more structured" instead of already uninterested people tell me, and thus other people, that my project, or my friend's project, is basically bad news. I'm sorry for coming off so aggressive, but this is the 3rd collaboration I've attempted to get into, only for it to be torn down, and thus I remove it.

[NanettesClouds]

So - I'm not sure how familliar you are with the forums but this is the way that pretty much every colab thread tends to go here.

Here are a handful of threads that might help you and your friend with finding a collaborative partner:

Hi everyone – most of you have seen me around the forums. Now, the topic of collaborations has come up again (when have they never not), and I’m mostly in reference to these particular threads: I have already talked about these very topics in earlier threads last year, and my feelings about this topic still stands. This “artist vs writer” debate? It’s an important debate. We all need to understand each other’s professions better in the long run and appreciate them. But, when it com…

Hi Y’all in the time that I’ve been a part of the Tapas community I’ve seen a lot of unpaid collaboration posts. Y’know the type. There have been a lot of great recent threads about how to handle these posts, and how to make better collaboration offers. Though I have another suggestion on how we could further improve our tactics for responding to these threads. First though - let’s talk about fair freelance rates. This twitter thread that I was reading earlier was filled with great advi…

in light of recent discussions, i thought itd be useful to compose a list of good signs and warning signs for collaboration for all to use, in hopes of protecting new artists from bad decisions and guiding new creators in how to set up a healthy collaboration. EDIT: this is a loose guideline, and should not be used as a check list. every collaborative relationship is unique and discretion is advised. here's what ive got for good signs (these arent all necessary, but are all pros): - you know…

Hi everyone! I've been reading a lot of the discussion threads lately on collaboration and was inspired by a particular post to write this. It started as just a reply, but it got to the point where I think it deserves its own thread. I don't remember where I saw it, but someone implied that a writer paying an artist doesn't make them a team? Or that it's somehow different when payment is involved? (as in, you're strictly paying for a service and it's cut and dry you're still the owner/creator/…

So I see a lot of (unpaid) offers/requests to find a collaborator, and most of the time it seems like they go unfilled. For those of you who are in a collaborative relationship with someone, how did it start? Also while we're at it what advice do you have for working with your collaborative partner? Anyone working with more than one other person, how do you do that? I've got two budding collaborative projects right now. One with a friend who I've known for years, we've always tossed ideas…

If you dig through these threads you'll probably find other helpful threads with more advice that I didn't link. - As a community we have talked about this subject A LOT.

he is in the military and is also putting our his comic every 2 weeks. This was just an offer outward to see of anyone is interested.

Thats quite a workload, I think it might help you to consider that, while most of us aren't in the military we already have a lot of stuff going on in addition to our comics, and it's a really hard bargain to convince us to spend our limited creative energy working with/for someone else who we don't know. As an artist yourself, if you had seen this thread would you have wanted to work on this project if you didn't know the person?

There has been a lot of discussion here on the forums lately about colab posts, and most of us are just kinda peeved about them.

My advice - either encourage your friend to start drawing on their own, find an artist you already know and speak to them directly, or work with them yourself. Collaborations are genuinely fulfilling when you're working with a close friend, it's a rare opportunity and can potentially strengthen your relationship with them, and if its something you're able to do at all I would think really hard about passing it up.

I'm not trying to be harsh here, I genuinely believe that those are your best options rather than hoping to find some rando here on the forums, especially because it seems like your friend has a specific creative vision in mind.

We're not trying to be disrespectful, though I am sorry you feel that way.

we don't think that your friends project won't work out, @punkarsenic and I both genuinely love poetry comics and have made them before, its one of my favorite sub-genre's of indie comics, and because of their relationship to zines you can get away with some pretty scrappy artwork, especially if you are both the artist and the writer of the poetry zine.

All of that said - when it comes to making money from comics, it just, doesn't really happen most of the time. This is coming from someone who HAS SOLD THEIR COMICS and HAS made money from comics in other ways. It's not easy, and it takes a long time to get to that point. I am hardly a full time artist nor do I really plan to be. I fully expect that making comics will always exist somewhere in between a hobby and a side gig for me, and I'm okay with that because I love the medium and I love making things.

my own things.

But, if you wan't to find a different artist to work with you you're going to have to take a different approach.

[NanettesClouds]

I understand that, but what's wrong with trying?

A lot actually. You should check out the threads that I've linked above.

[SleepingPoppy]

I understand that, but what's wrong with trying?

In this case, the problem is that your friend is a total stranger asking for free work. That is always going to come off as questionable, so yes, you can try, but people are probably going to question it.

I'd have to see and assess yours to really form an opinion other than I'm sorry people took issue with it. Maybe they were over critical, or maybe there were things you needed to be doing better. Maybe even a little of both!

[spicy_sweets]

Does your friend know you're asking about this? Are they actually interested in working with an artist themselves? If so, how come they aren't here instead?
I'm just hoping this isn't a situation where you're trying to surprise them with them with help they may not be interested in receiving. If not, great!

[marvelescent]

Well she was interested, but now she's less interested. Not to say it's anyone's fault, she just realized it's a touchy subject so to speak.

[marvelescent]

I can't figure it out how to send forums or quote. But heres my last one: Hey, I've got a story, and I'm looking for an artist to work with. It is post apocalyptic and romance, so, in terms of originality, I think we've got a shot featured. Just need an artist. I'm able to do lighting and building and shading if needed be as well.

Edit: Sorry, I want sure if going into detail was a good idea in case someone takes the story, but here's a summary.

The story will likely be called bunker buddies. Its a story of 2 small 2-3 person families in 2 separate underground bunkers during an apocalyptic style weather crisis. The bunker community is set up in order to support them for many many years, though finite, and it has a communication system (like TV screens you can turn to contact each bunker for video conversation) so they can connect. It was meant to be more people but not everyone made it. Anyways, 2 young adults begin to form a romance between each other. One a female with a sick grandmother and little brother, and the other a male with a little sister. It just shows their connects, the stress of isolation, losing connection, spending years not knowing when you can get out, death, etc. Its very closed as a scene so there wouldn't be a lot of dynamic scene changes, it would be just very personal. Drama/romance/post apocalyptic.

Anyways, that's a lot of what I have so far, I'm working on the overall structure, but I know what I want to happen. It's unpaid until an income comes of, then we'd split it accordingly. Scroll format and I'm flexible about art style, but I'd want it to be more serious to body structure and all, and not loose. More "Muted" on webtoon and above, not looser like room of swords. If you're interested, just let me know. If you want to start, but only after I get a certain distance into script, let's talk about that as well.

Personal writing style I'd rather direct message about

I do assist in the writing and shading and lighting of Destiny oblivion. But since it's not my story, I can't speak to it, by here is an exactly of my light and shading work:

I had no problem updating the OP or answering questions, but it seemed like all I got was criticism and negativity. And a bunch of red flags on me

[spicy_sweets]

You just copy the link and paste. The post pops up automatically.

[SleepingPoppy]

I can't figure it out how to send forums or quote.

If you're on a phone or tablet it can be a bit harder. Typically if you're able to highlight the text of the other person "quote" will pop up as a dialogue box. There is also a large quotation mark in your text edit box. But I know at least some people on their phones aren't able to make it work. Hope this helps either way?

Otherwise you can just copy paste a link to the board on its own line, and it'll do the cool link appearance.

But heres my last one:

I mentioned this in the other board, but a lack of other projects is a problem for any collab. It'd also help to include the length you expect the collab to be, and even better if you start with a short one shot so that you get the chance to actually test the waters instead of expecting an artist to come on board for a huge commitment. Otherwise I think it's a decent pitch. Though it's worth noting it seems like you didn't include your summary originally, so any complains you got about that were totally earned.

But I think if you pitch an idea, include previous work, and start with something short, you're far less likely to get complaints, and maybe even will have better luck finding a collab? It's always a tough thing, and obv the collab atmosphere isn't the best right now, but I would genuinely wish you luck.

The fact that you've assisted on a comic, and can help with the art is great for the record.

[marvelescent]

Yeah, I did have thai problem at first. Afterward, I tried to start a new post with this updated version but got nowhere again. I'll continue to update what I have. I have 4 pages (about 30 panels or so each) worth of writing, plus sketches, but knowing how many pages in the end is hard to guess. So I guess I just gotta be 100 percent to even say how long. I know it's not long but what doesnt that even mean I guess, but yeah. It was quite the learning experience very quickly, so I guess I'll keep it to myself for now.

[SleepingPoppy]

but knowing how many pages in the end is hard to guess.

Oh, just ball park it. Some creators are super picky about this, but I never know how many pages anything is going to be until I'm almost finished actually drawing it. Though 30 panels =/= a page. I think you're picturing scroll format? A page is, lets say 6ish panels on average. If you're working in vertical, I'd suggest having an average panels per chapter, and how many total chapters. If its short, be more specific, if it's long, use averages.

It was quite the learning experience very quickly, so I guess I'll keep it to myself for now.

I wish you the best ^^

[marvelescent]

Haha, yeah sorry, scrolling format is the only way I've read, all I'll specify that part as well, but thanks for taking the time to help me in the end, and sorry about my frustration.