Amazon vs Wattpad

[crisyah]

No problem, I'm glad to clarify! They also say that, if you publish with Vella first, you can't then take the novel and make a hardcopy or audiobook for people who prefer those formats and won't read online or who want a physical copy for, say, collection reasons. It's not uncommon for webnovel authors to offer PDF or ebook versions of their books to their subscribers, either, and this option is completely blocked with Vella. So, while they say, we keep our rights... We can't really do anything with them, can we? We're locking ourselves into one type of audience only. Not to mention, you can't re-release in any language. So, bye bye, translation rights. You can pull the novel from Vella to do all of this, but what happens to the readers that have already paid for the chapters, then? This isn't specified, anywhere. Worst case scenario, they end up with no book, angry and will never buy anything from you, again.

For comparison, I contacted Tapas and their non-exclusive Premium contracts allow you to still put the books in other marketplaces, in any formats, however you wish. So when they say they don't take your rights, they really don't.

[therosesword]

Thanks. I haven't read it in depth so haven't seen those restrictions. I'll just hand it over to my attorney and rep and let them give the yay or nay.

[crisyah]

No problem! I asked for further clarification on what happens on the readers end if the author pulls the book out of Vella, since they conveniently didn't address that part of the issue at all. They're also keeping real quiet about why they're pocketing 50% of the earnings, when they only get 30% on ebooks sold through KDP. What does this app offer to warrant the extra 20%? I'll keep you guys posted with any answers I get. I'm also gonna poke around r/selfpublish and see what people there have to say!

[therosesword]

how about putting a link to the agreement and such where all this information is?

[therosesword]

Ummmm, I've been published with non-fiction by an established publishing house. Standard industry rate for the author is 15 to 30%. If they're only taking 30 to 50% and the author gets the rest.... sign me up!

[crisyah]

This is where I got the basic info from, I haven't seen an actual agreement yet. Not in the US, so can't upload anything to see it!

[crisyah]

Just because someone else can treat me worse doesn't mean I'm going to take mediocre treatment from someone else.

[therosesword]

This is a blog by an attorney (not mine) that I have often pursued. He's done a massive piece on Vella including their words and his words and some back and forth opinions (I particularly like "Randalls" take on erotica owning this within a short time and people with low hanging fruit chopping up their books trying to make money,.

It's obvious that more work has to be done, it's idea isn't fully fleshed but as I'm in Amazon country and have friends who work there (some in the film division) it shakes out eventually.

this is a long read... looooonnnngggg, but worth it. especially the conversation at the end.

https://www.thepassivevoice.com/kindle-vella-royalties-content-guidelines-and-publishing-process/

[crisyah]

Randall knows what's up. Authors can't, however, chop underperforming books and put them up as episodes, as per Vella's many restrictions.

Got a new reply, which basically only answers what happens if you pull your book from Vella. Readers will still be able to access what they paid for, so technically, the book is still there, forever. Which, while it's a good thing for the reader, I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with, as an author.

Here's the whole thing:

Edit: For the sake of transparency, I also specifically asked what was up with the "we don't want readers to buy duplicate content, so that's why we don't allow content available in other formats" excuse, when it's so common to mistakenly buy duplicates of books if you simply search for a different ISBN / different edition and they said nothing about that.

So yeah, either this still needs a whole lot of changes, or I won't be touching it with a ten foot pole, even when it becomes available globally. That's my verdict, for now.

[therosesword]

Did you read the rebuttals? Forgive me but you're taking a very negative view of something that hasn't established a track record or had the benefit of working out the kinks yet. There were a great many naysayers to the original Kindle idea and they seem to have managed to go on.

If you don't want to partake of it, don't, but let others decide for themselves after they have assimilated the information to their satisfaction.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, right now, I don't have all the information I want and I am inclined to take the information provided by people with experience at this point.

[crisyah]

Only one of the rebuttals applies to the problems I have with the app and that was "Well, if you’re doing KDP exclusive, which I am, there’s not much difference.". I personally have the same problems with KPD exclusive, so this does nothing to help with my doubts about the app. Like I said, for now, as it stands, it doesn't interest me. I'm not telling anyone else to stay away from it. People are free to choose whatever they want to do.

[sarahmassey998]

I feel the same, I kinda just want to throw a new unpublished novel on there before it gets going just to see what happens. If it doesn't work then you can always pull it from the platform and publish elsewhere.
My question would be if all genres would be accepted or if the readers are only looking for certain material. There aren't a lot of guidelines out now so hopefully there will be more going forward.

[sarahmassey998]

Hey there,
I've read a few of your posts and I get the feeling that you have a grasp of the legalities of this new platform. Would you happen to know if you can post a story to both Tapas and to Kindle Vella assuming of course that you haven't gone premium with Tapas?
Thank you for breaking this down for us newbie authors!

[writercynknapp]

I have no actual experience, but this is what I have observed.

For WattPad: if you write quality Young Adult stories ('chasing red', 'after', 'the last princess', under glass'); then you might find a book or movie deal.
Earning money from online readers is not automatic. You have to become a 'WattPad Star' first. Then you might be selected to offer a 'paid' story.
I have never heard from anyone that paid stories earned even a meager living. Though I have heard from some that money does get sent when it accumulates.

I write scifi / fantasy, which has way fewer readers.

Does anyone have any facts on other sites? Are there earnings for sci-fi / fantasy content anywhere?

[therosesword]

I'm still reading and trying to digest. The grasp is kind of like trying to pick up an excited 6 month old kitten.... prelim looks says you can but there is more information on another thread I started called Amazon Kindle Vella part 2. I'll link below although I don't know if you can link this way

It is a blog by an attorney and he first puts up everything that Amazon says and then has comments at the very end. This is alllll very new so I'm fairly sure you can expect things to change relatively rapidly, especially with their agreement as the attorney said it felt like it wasn't complete yet.

He may also have information about things you've wondered about in the past. I find the link to contract work interesting, but then I was the first stop for contracts at my last job so my brain locks in on the familiar.

[sarahmassey998]

That makes sense, it does feel all a bit rushed so hopefully they will come out with some more concrete guidelines for writers as it gets closer to dropping. Or after those first brave writers brave the waters, find the flaws and allow the rest of us to sail on smoother seas.
This is Amazon we're talking about.
Thank you again for bringing this to my attention. I'm so far out of the loop this was the first place I've heard of this!

[therosesword]

One of the things I thought was interesting is the fact of Kakao buying up so much of Tapas and all the stuff that's going on with Wattpad and Navar(spelling) and then this drops like crazy. I'm sure if I dig I'll find mention of it brewing but so low keyed it went under the radar (and I'm not particularly in the loop either).

In any event, my take is that with all this other stuff going on and Kakao Entertainment flexing growing muscles, Amazon has probably been microscoping the serial webnovels for some time (especially with so many of China's hit c-dramas being made from webnovels they'd be blind not to notice that, especially with their film division). And with the Tapas deal for Kakao Amazon decided to step up their pace.

The timing, in my opinion, is ... interesting?... at the very least. Will Kakao buying up so much of Tapas (and rumor flying of takeover) cause an exodus of authors and will Amazon, a known commodity with decades in business, be standing nearby with welcoming arms to receive them?

Just my thoughts.

[therosesword]

There is Fictionate.me

[crisyah]

You can't. Stories that are available for free elsewhere cannot be uploaded to Vella!

[cherrystark]

@sarahmassey998 from what I've read, they don't want you post work you are selling through another avenue like ebook or self publishing.

@writercynknapp I'm also a sci-fi writer and I'm on Fictionate.me