Casual readers VS dedicated fans

keii4ii 2015-08-06 05:57:41 UTC #15

This is 100% true for me too, and probably for the vast majority of creators out there. But that doesn't mean I have no desire to create a story that really matters to people.

This isn't about engaging, though. Engaging is important because it's often the only way we can confirm the existence of investment, but it's different from investment.

I believe the only way to encourage investment is to make a great comic that speaks to people (whether or not they speak back to the author). To that end, I've been seeking critiques, but it's been difficult. Maybe I should create a new thread on how to best seek critiques/feedback...?

AnnaLandin 2015-08-06 06:18:55 UTC #16

Yeah, engagement has to be my yardstick for investment, because there is no other way for me to know. To see the view-counter on my Ad-Program tick upwards only tells me people are scrolling through the comic; it tells me nothing about whether they like what I'm doing or not, or whether it's remotely important to them.

My goal has always been to create a story that matters to people - because it matters to me. I get seriously emotional when I think about my comic - and if other people get that way too, well, then I've truly achieved something. But unless they tell me, I can't know.

ratique 2015-08-06 06:26:51 UTC #17

It is difficult. Probably one of the most difficult things out there once you reached a certain level of skill. A really good critique is very hard to come by, because there are only few people who can spot issues but are also okay with being honest with you.

If a critique is what you are looking for, I would definitely write one for you if you want it. You want to improve and that deserves all the support we can give you. Also: You washed my back, I wash yours... errr... that's how that saying goes, right?

mappypaint 2015-08-06 07:08:13 UTC #18

I also appreciate all the subscribers I get, casual and dedicated. I make sure to send thank you drawings for every new ones that subscribed. Now whether they read my story or not is a big question mark. I wouldn't know, stats might show spikes but there's no way to find out who of them has read it. All I can do is hope that they enjoy it and also hope that I made them happy. Then there are those dedicated ones, showing their appreciation through comments, likes, and shares. You will know if they are reading judging by their comments (it's fun when they try to guess what will happen next in the story XD). I make sure I reply to them too, I don't want them to feel that i'm ignoring them.

I appreciate them both but I would give more to the dedicated ones than the casuals. To show my appreciation to them, sometimes I would draw their characters (if they have one) in the backgrounds, replying to their comments, making fan art for their comics (again if they have one), etc.

Now if I have to choose between 100 silent subscribers vs 1 dedicated fan... i'll go with the dedicated fan.XD

UzukiCheverie 2015-08-06 12:32:17 UTC #19

Aside from the willingness of giving honest opinions, some people just don't know how to properly critique a work either (even when they try). They just don't know the proper etiquette or format to critiquing artwork or writing, and often leads to just stuff like "I like it because the art is pretty and the writing is funny." (<<< often times they just don't know how to describe what they specifically like, or don't know the right words, like when it comes to talking about composition, lighting, linework, etc.)

And then there's the willingness to TAKE critiques, which is a whole other can of worms lol Some people just have a hard time reacting to different people's opinions of their work, positive and negative, which, yeah, can be hard for anyone, especially if the comic is really important to them or they consider themselves to be at a level where they shouldn't be hearing anything that isn't "I LOVE YOUR ART AAAH"

Buuut I digress.

Little_Bigfoot 2015-08-06 14:27:39 UTC #20

When I said that, I meaned for those who are only posers. They read comics, because it's popular. I have nothig with the ones who read a comic once in a while.

JigokuNeko 2015-08-06 15:52:27 UTC #21

I won't lie; the dedicated fans are what keep me doing what I'm doing. If people didn't respond emotionally to my stories, I'd probably still keep doing them but not as frequently or as passionately. Telling a story in a silent void is not fun.

As for how to get people to engage...
a) give them interesting characters:
People will read a story for great art, cool worldbuilding and a fresh plot but ultimately what will make them love it are the characters. Memorable characters that feel alive are what makes readers check for updates....well, at least that is what my experience tells me. The most beloved stories (in any medium actually) aren't loved for their plot structure or excellent composition, they are loved for their iconic characters.

b) be a gracious hostess:
What I love about webcomics is the social aspect. Having a party in the comments section sometimes makes my day. Replying to people and having good-natured fun with them will make more people want to join in. By contrast, if an author is being a dick, not bothering and generally not making an effort, that turns people off. I've personally unfollowed comics because I hated the toxicity of their interactions with their fans. If a prospective friend came over to your house and you just sat there ignoring them and playing video games chances are they probably wouldn't come again. Well, they might if your house was a mansion with a pool but they wouldn't come for the friendship.

noxfox 2015-08-06 16:26:20 UTC #22

I don't think there's anything wrong in that either, reading is always a good thing and even if those readers might be less interested in comics, no one "deserves" or doesn't deserve to access entertainment because a handful of persons fashion themselves into some sort of elite. For some, reading comics is just a way to keep in tune with their friends or the rest of the Internet, know their present day references so to communicate better with their peers rather than be left out of the fun. Is it something to despise? Are some readers better than others?
They are different, for sure, but different isn't bad. Different is just different. Now I can get that, for readers, it can be annoying when one comes up like "yeah, I'm totally fan of this series" and turns out to have no understanding of it (worse, tries to lecture you with misconceptions!). But that's yet another topic.

Kamikaze 2015-08-06 16:33:30 UTC #23

Even though we've got a good following of subscribers, my team and I definitely get worried about that number. Are they consistent readers? Are they just one time readers? Will they come back? Some of them are subbed to 400+ comics, how will they ever keep up? How can they be invested if they have 400+ other comics they're reading too? I find that last one to be kind of a silly question though..especially considering I know people who love multiple stories and manage to keep god knows how many ideas straight in their head despite following so many. I always worry that the number seen doesn't reflect the number that are actually active. It's this paranoid little part of my brain that always says "You're an impostor, and those numbers aren't real!" That part my brain is a real asshole.

While I worry about that stuff a lot, I do know that we have some dedicated fans. I can expect them to comment and like and even (my absolute favorite) have questions for us! I also love it when they catch small things that are littered in the story or descriptions we leave.

One of the best things that's worked for us has been having extra little details about the world of Kamikaze in our descriptions. Many readers go through and don't even notice at first. Once they do notice, they often go back and read through everything all over again. With a massive world like we have, our readers want to know more and more about it, even the silly details like...how people hang their laundry, gets comments and questions. It feels wonderful when those little details are acknowledged

Another bit, is making sure your readers know you'd love to talk to them, and that you support them. Being supportive, and encouraging of not only your own work but of THEIR work can really mean a lot.

I feel like a lot of people look at their readers and think 'numbers', but maybe what we should do is think 'relationships' instead! Creators who build relationships with their audience might be just the ticket.

Kamikaze 2015-08-06 16:36:01 UTC #24

How...is someone who reads comics because they're popular a poser? More and more people are getting into comics now BECAUSE of their popularity. How is more fans of the things that we like, love and create a bad thing, dude?

Seriously, that's really dismissive. Can you imagine just getting into a new subject or finding some really cool new thing that you're just getting started in, and then have someone call you a poser for being new? How rude.

keii4ii 2015-08-06 16:45:46 UTC #25

The one reader whom I know to be invested in my comic, the one I remember when my creator self-esteem hits rock bottom, never comments on any of my episodes. I know she cares about my story, though, because she followed me from the Korean platform I used to post and keeps reading even though (I'm99% sure) she's more comfortable with the Korean language. But yes, that one is definitely an exception; comments are indeed generally the only way to tell.

My problem: that part of my brain is taking over. DX
I mean, I'm sure a good number of people keep reading my comic because I do get views/ likes/ comments? But what if the commenters just like to talk? What if they forget about my comic as soon as they're done commenting????? AAAAA

One important distinction to make is 1) the creator-reader relationship, and 2) the reader-story relationship. Both are important because we're humans and can't cleanly divorce the work from the person behind it. ButI don't want 1) to eclipse 2 because this is a depressing thought: what if people are pretending to like my comic because they like ME? Kind of like your mom following your work even though she's not really into it?

I like to engage with my readers because... well, communication is the whole point of sharing this stuff. Still, that fear is there, and I don't know how to chase it out of my head.

Kamikaze 2015-08-06 16:54:31 UTC #26

I if you're looking to chase that little monster from your head, maybe you and I just need to go back and read over those amazing comments and wonderful things that people have said about our work. Maybe that'll help (I hope)?

getsuart 2015-08-06 19:01:43 UTC #27

I think most of the readers are the silent type...? But fortunatelly, there are also readers who come, read and comment, ask for things and say when they find something really interesting. It's still okay for the silent readers ; I know some of them are reading it, and are just waiting for the next page. Everyone react differently, after all.

I like reading comments (and answer to them too!) because I know if I go in the "right" way or not. Without any comments, it would be hard to know. The "right" way is somethig that would stil interest readers, not regarding about the fanships for example.

Also, when a new subscriber hit the subscribe button, I try to send a thank you image on his wall ; it's the first step to crate a link with the readers, and I also try to show how I care about them too. It's quite hard! And doing livestream for the milestones too. Or doing livesream just to chat a little bit with everyone.
So I think if some people follow me enough to comment, participate in livestreams and all those things, they are a little bit dedicated to the webcomic? Maybe I got some, then

keii4ii 2015-08-06 21:57:24 UTC #28

That would be the most appreciated. My back could really use it; it's grimy as hell! :U

Though probably not in this thread, as it seems off topic. XD Where would be the best place for it? PM? Email? Or should I make a separate thread for it?

DynamoToon 2015-08-06 22:08:57 UTC #29

Well I dont really have a story to tell (actually I do but I wont bring it out yet) but as for dedicated readers I think I have a few. I'm still grateful that I have so many subs but my comic is more of a little gag to make you laugh kind of deal. I don't expect people to be COMPLETELY devoted to my work, I certainly dont expect them to, but if someone is I'll do my damnedest to meet their expectations.

ratique 2015-08-07 01:32:15 UTC #30

If you would want feedback from many other people, you could definitely make a new thread for that. I however will send it to you via PM. While I am vocal on the internet, keeping it private takes some stress away from me. English is not my first language and I might mess up!

PotooGryphon 2015-08-07 02:44:09 UTC #31

Hey guys, do you realize the craziness of this thread? We're evaluating the worth of individual readers based on whether or not our comic makes a lasting impression on them? Isn't that a bit on the arrogant side? Shouldn't we just be happy to have readers that come back to our series at all, and occasionally leave a like/comment/share/or subscribe to lets us know they care or consider us?

Sure, it's great to want to leave a lasting impression on fans with great art and story, but we shouldn't be disregarding the ones that come back with each post either. Shouldn't all readers be awesome, in general?

And then, get this... the one reader that's responding in this thread, @Little_Bigfoot, we attack because they think we all deserve dedicated loving readers on our series? Guys! Come on, what are we doing here?!

Just create what you love! Be yourself and do what you love because that shows in the work. Readers feed off your own love and passion.

idk, though, I find this thread turning a bit self defeatist.

What's this business of feeling like your an imposter and fooling people with your work?

How can you be fooling people, if with each page you're giving it all you got? People love/expect to see growth in a webcomic. Webcomics in its very core nature is meant to be playful experimental fun for a comic artist to try things out and grow.

Remember, don't focus on subscriber numbers or even quality for that make, just get out there and make the best darn comic you can make because there is nothing else you'd rather be doing. If you build it, they will come.

keii4ii 2015-08-07 02:52:12 UTC #32

No. I'm evaluating the worth of MY work based on how successful it is at mattering to people.

And I'm not looking to pander to people, either. I'm trying to make it the best version of the story I want to tell. I believe if I can do that, it WILL be more effective at appealing to the readers on a deeper level. I'm just trying to figure out how to get there...

For emphasis:

(and in response to the above:)

oliviasstephen 2015-08-07 03:01:26 UTC #33

But people were responding to Little Bigfoot about the inherent elitism of saying that 'casual readers don't belong on Tapastic'...all readers belong on Tapastic. Casual or dedicated, we appreciate all of them. And given the other replies here, I think that's the mindset of all the creators contributing to this thread...so I'm not sure where this post is coming from...

AnnaLandin 2015-08-07 05:51:28 UTC #34

Oh, I am in no way trying to segregate my readers into "ones I care about" and "ones I don't care about"! I love all of them, whether they comment all the time, comment infrequently, read silently, or read only occasionally! I said so in my post.

It's just that I spent quite a bit of time on both Smackjeeves and the Duck (back when it was still Drunk Duck, pre- several website implosions), and on those sites, it was very much my experience that I post a page, and got only crickets chirping in return. Comics are storytelling, and storytelling is, in large part, about communication - and getting absolutely nothing in response is discouraging. Happily, this is not a problem for me on Tapastic: ; people are more likely to comment, and I really enjoy interacting with my readers.

But if someone doesn't want to comment, that's fine too! All readers are important, regardless of their level of interaction, and there is absolutely no shame in being a casual reader! "Casual" does not mean "unimportant"!

As for the response to @Little_Bigfoot - I actually missed their comment, and so did not respond to it.