Do you ever feel overshadowed by more popular genres/themes?

Cronaj 2017-09-28 06:49:18 UTC #55

@Akaluv89 Well, I certainly don't want you to be pissed about this either. ^^; I think there are some genuinely good writers on this site, a lot of them from Wattpad. A lot of them aren't my cup of tea... but they must be somebody's. I have a Wattpad too, but I have so few followers there that it's hardly worth mentioning. I have waaaaaaay more support here than on Wattpad. Tapas is genuinely a good site. Asking it to be perfect is completely unfeasible, but we can dream, right? Trying to get as close to that Utopia is the best we can do, and that's what the forums are for!

Testaccount 2017-09-28 12:58:30 UTC #56

In many ways, Tapas is just another Wattpad. In the end, most of these sites are all the same, so it doesn't really matter anymore. Personally, I'm over the posting content online thing.

Thanks for responding to me.

UbePie 2017-09-28 13:54:28 UTC #57

There are advertisements avenues you can take that don't cost money. I was at a convention recently and they had a workshop entitled " social media for Artist 101". If you want i can try to look up the slide show and email it to you. But here are some basic points from this class and my own experience. It was a class that actually focused on fantasy art so it might actually be pretty helpful for you!

So the two biggist points i found helpful was joining Facebook groups and doing challenges on twitter. I don't remember the name od this twitter group but if i find the slide show it will have the name. Anyway there is a twitter group that is a daily Fantasy drawing challenge. It can get eyes on your work, plus if you use one of you comic characters in the drawing just say a little blurd about it and drop a link. Also for webcomic specific stuff also follow these groups on twitter for free advertisement. Webcomicchat, Webcomichour, webcomicteaparty. Webcomicchat gives you an opportunity every Wedensday to drop a link to your comic.

I never had a twitter before and god i find all the alerts and tweets annoying, but it's a small price for free advertising.

instagram! I love instagram, I had an account before i started my comic. I use it tro drop some art here and there with a link back to my comic.

Tumblr....I hate tumblr litterly only made an account so I could get my comics on some rec lists. I have no idea how it works or how to utilize it, I just googled tunblr webcomic list and sumbited my shit and left, lol.

I hope this helps you get over the wall of popularity. Because i honestly believe Fantasy is a big ticket item. Game of Thrones is fantasy, Harry Potter is fantasy. Lord of the ring and the Hobbit Fantasy, all very popular.

As for not getting accepted let me tell you a little story. My webcomic was started because two week before the deadline I found out that Lezhin was having a contest. I downloaded their free trial of clip studio and hand drew 140 panels of comic in two weeks. Than i stayed up for 27 hours formating and adding text using a program i had never used before and submitted just in the nick of time. My co- workers where behind me with support, letting me work on my comic at work. I didn't win, and the thing that really pissed me off? One of the winners dropped the deal, and another got disqualified after a copy right issue. That could have been me! So my mom said why not post it yourself and i did. And i am working hard because I believe my story has worth. Just because someone else didn't see it doesn't mean your story doesn't have worth and with every rejection comes a chance to prove them wrong. So get out there and prove them wrong!!

LordVincent 2017-09-28 14:05:42 UTC #58

Tell me someone who hasn't been rejected in this business? The person who comes out successful isn't the one that got their way right away or never got rejected, but rather the person that never gave up no matter how many times they were rejected or ignored.

I have been ignored by several publishing companies and rejected by a swedish comic school I applied to go to. Turns out swedish comic industry generally doesn't appreciate manga that much. There's only a small few manga series that are published on a larger scale in Sweden, and many of them are completely owned and run by companies owned by the original creator themselves.

In Sweden most published creators are either slice of life newspaper-comic-strip artists, or they are political satire creators (often feminists, who have made at least one comic strip about periods in their carreer ).

That's fine and dandy, I didn't stop trying. You need to try many ways, methods, and places to push your content.

thekinginthesun 2017-09-28 14:22:15 UTC #59

As a BL creator who didn't have an easy time of it, I want to tattoo @LordVincent's and @UbePie's comments on my forehead. Thank you.

Spot on! OH YAS

Btw comparing BL/GL to loli was a little... too much. Pls no.

Cronaj 2017-09-28 14:31:15 UTC #60

@UbePie Thank you for the advice! Yes, I would be interested in seeing that slideshow, if you can find it, and I'm sure others would also benefit from the information I used to post in FB groups specializing in manga-inspired work, or fantasy, or webcomics in general, but I realized that while I got a lot of likes on the posts, it seemed like no one actually clicked on the provided links, so I ended up stopping.

@UbePie and @LordVincent I have actually visited Lezhin comics. I was curious to submit to one of their contests too, but I found their requirements for chapter lengths and update speed kind of ridiculous. I think it was at least 70 panels per chapter or something like that...? (Obviously, they were probably looking more for full-time artists with a whole team, and the Korean webtoon industry is craaaaazy competitive.)

But I will say, while I had been playing with the idea of my comic for a year before that, the thing that finally got me to begin drawing pages was the first LINE Webtoon contest back in 2014. I submitted to the contest, but since it was basically a popularity contest... suffice to say, it didn't go well.

I won't say the experience didn't put me off the project for a while, but I eventually got over the scars enough to start again. This is probably the third or fourth reboot of my comic, haha, but this is the first time after being rejected in 2014 that I thought my comic was good enough to be considered on a professional level. So I guess it was good to be completely flat out rejected that time?

@thekinginthesun Honestly, I think most creators of every genre try to market their work to relevant audiences, or at the very least, I do. I don't see how BL creators are any different in that regard, unless you mean that Tapas is a good platform for BL comics...? That's what it seems to me. Tapas has a lot of BL, Romance, and Supernatural readers. LINE Webtoon seems to be a good platform for Fantasy, Drama, and Romance. (Interesting that romance has a solid footing everywhere, hmmm.)

thekinginthesun 2017-09-28 14:55:33 UTC #61

I don't know, we're not romance at all. Our story is a murder mystery, and we grew a lot faster on LINE than on Tapas. It all comes down to marketing, in the end. You can create the most beautiful piece of artwork combined to a professional-level writing - it won't get discovered unless you shove it on people's faces everywhere, especially when you just got started.

As @UbePie said, BL creators (and LGBT stuff in general) can narrow down their audiences easily, facilitating the marketing job.

You also have to put into account the fact that we see cis-straight romance everywhere in physical stores. Tapas - and free web platforms in general - are here to help those who don't feel like it is their cup of tea. * raises hand *

UbePie 2017-09-28 15:02:48 UTC #62

While everyone can market, what I think @thekinginthesun is saying is that LGBTQ is a niche market that can easily be advertised to, and that BL/GL creators are aware where to find these individuals and market to them. And they are pretty damn hungry. Why? Because I can't turn on the TV and see a representation of myself or my family. That is why they are so popular because they represent people that get ignored, and it's easy to market to a direct niche. If there are gays or any other LGBTQ character on TV they usually fall into a stereotype, or in the case of any lesbian movie ever the more effeminate partner (which is me, cause I love dresses and make up) ends up somehow cheating with a man. Which guess what? Is not what a lesbian would do. We deal with a lot of stereotypes in media, and in real life, so online we can find accurate representation of ourselves.

PS working on finding that slide show, gotta find the business card the teacher gave out.

thekinginthesun 2017-09-28 15:06:51 UTC #63

Yep, exactly my point!

Cronaj 2017-09-28 15:12:52 UTC #64

Technically, BL is a subgenre of romance, but I wasn't referring to BL when I said "romance."

If I'm understanding what you and @UbePie mean correctly, is that "narrowing down audiences" easier because of the niche market for BL comics? As an example, Fantasy is a broad genre, with many subcategories, whereas, BL is already a subcategory of Romance, regardless of what other genres are attached (such as murder-mystery).

And of COURSE cis-straight romance is everywhere in physical stores, haha! The traditional publishing industry does not evolve as quickly as the web. For hundreds, hell, thousands of years, people have been writing stories about straight couples, because of societal stigmas, so it makes sense that bookstores would be littered with them.

Look, I'm not trying to attack BL books/comics. I think they have a great deal to contribute to the storytelling industry, and I personally read a few myself. This whole thread was about ways to be noticed on the platform if you are not writing a popular genre. Popular on this site specifically. You shouldn't feel like you need to defend BL comics as a BL creator. No one, or at least the majority of us, were not trying to belittle the mentioned genres.

thekinginthesun 2017-09-28 15:28:21 UTC #65

Hey, hey, no problem! I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but I'm not feeling attacked at all!

Just clarifying a common misconception (well, at least it is a misconception imo) about BL being popular just because BL. (I was guilty of that too, actually)

Well... yes and no. You wouldn't say, for example, that Harry Potter is exactly romance, even if Harry got married in the end, right? BL simply means "hey it got gays", because some people apparently feel deeply betrayed if a character they like isn't straight. Maybe some day we won't have to write those two letters on our thumbnail sigh

But yeah, it's as simple as "LGBTQ content for LGBTQ people". You know where to find your audience and, as @UbePie said, they're damn hungry for some quality content.

UbePie 2017-09-28 17:50:16 UTC #66

OK this took for ever to locate even with the business care but here is the slide show and info of the panel I attended for utilizing social media to get eyes on your art.

UrMom 2017-09-28 18:43:02 UTC #67

That's alright, bl is so popular, the subgenre may as well be up there with promoted comics... at least, it's really popular on Tapas, Smackjeeves, and Tumblr. Weird story, bl used to be a little out of control on SJ a looooong time ago, there was porn everywhere! The influx of bl comics was almost constant. One day the most popular comic on the site, which was bl, got smacked and everything just fell apart like a Jenga tower. The site has cooled down a lot since then, I can say there's a little more diversity on the front page now.
Guh, romance. Personally I hate the genre, wouldn't mind it too much if filmmakers didn't feel the need to force a love interest on almost every top dollar movie that comes out. But it is fun to see how creators handle such a (normally) character driven genre.

But yeah, don't worry about it too much. Just promote your stuff, chat, and continue to do your thing.

Luminosophy 2017-09-28 21:11:31 UTC #68

Do I feel overshadowed? Absolutely. Not because of BL/ GL, but the type of stories I'm going for are extremely a-typical of the art style that often accompanies it. It's not so much that manga and manga like comics can't be diverse genre wise. It's just that when you start throwing fantasy and action in, well, people start expecting things that are typical of every Shounen Jump story. I have a much slower pacing, much more screen time devoted to every aspect of a character's life to completely explore them and a world that demands even more time I think, to fully explain. It's not really just fight the bad guy, win, fight the badder bad guy with upgrades this time, win, rinse and repeat. I think the story is more like a hard political fantasy novel that happens to be in a comic form.

There's stories like this that have done in animations and comics but they're severely underrated and pretty much non existent in the grand scheme of things. 12 Kingdoms would be one. My fear is that it's just always going to be extremely difficult to reach out to the sort of niche I'm going for.

Mari 2017-09-28 21:51:12 UTC #69

Hasn't there been like 30 threads that all boil down to the "but my comic isn't popular because it's not BL "

there's plenty of books that aren't anywhere near as popular as say, twilight or it's fanfic spin-off, yet probably are better books, and that comes down to the rule of "marketing shit towards teen girls". It's what made the beatles, before mentioned books and a ton of other shit popular. This doesn't mean it's all trash (as with the beatles), but that if you choose to ignore that audience because "you're too good for that", that's really just your fault.

I wrote a whole research paper on the trend of ignoring female consumers when it comes to the video game industry, when it really makes no sense from a bussiness point of view, and I feel like that applies here too.

Cronaj 2017-09-30 18:24:41 UTC #70

I did not intend for so many people to be so hung up on the whole BL thing. I was speaking about popular genres in general, not only BL. So many people have been focusing on that genre, when I only brought it up with other genres as being popular.

I wonder, would this discussion have gone differently if I had simply ignored BL's popularity on Tapas? Would it have just derailed into a "but my comic isn't popular because it isn't a Romance or Supernatural" thread? Or would it have somehow, magically, have turned back around to BL comics?

Or perhaps people would have been offended at the suggestion that a comic that isn't centered around very stereotypically "female" topics has a difficult time gaining traction. Refusing to succumb to the pressures of mainstream feminine audiences does not mean that you are ignoring female consumers as a whole. It has nothing to do with being "too good for that."

No, I meant for this to be a thread about ways to find your audience within a pool of readers which commonly consume BL, Romance, Supernatural, (and I'll even include the broader genre of Fantasy), etc. How do you find your niche? That's the point. Certain genres are so huge and unclassified with a lack of subgenres listed that it is nearly impossible for your intended audience to find your work unless you ascribe to easily located, popular subgenres.

So I want to know how to change that.

UbePie 2017-09-30 19:22:23 UTC #71

I posted the social media 101 for you. It's from a fantasy artist so it should help. Also i posted in the forum about a contest webcomic avenue is having that can get you free advertising.

Finding your audience can be hard but you gotta get your stuff out there.

Audience are changing, sterotypes are being brought down. I am excited for any new Marvel film that comes out, and consume horror so much I have run out of friends willing to be dragged along. I hate romance, rom coms and all that. So audience are changing and not fitting into the normal groups that mainstream advertising is use to. Which makes it hard for use little people to figure out where to find our audience too.

Kayke 2017-09-30 20:13:43 UTC #72

I'm in a kind of weird spot. I make a superhero comic, which typically is not a very popular type of comic here on tapas... but my art style is also kind of cute and quirky, which a lot of people who are into traditional superhero comics are not into. But if you're creating something that you want to read, there are probably other people who want to read it too... so just make it as easy as possible for them to find it.

I think the most effective way to use social media is to play to your strengths and don't think everything HAS to be related to your comic to get you more followers. Like there are going to be people who hear the summary of your comic and not be interested because of genre bias and presumptions... but if they knew about YOU and your WORK they might be into it.

So sometimes it can be helpful to put YOU before the comic and play to your skills. So if you have a really arresting art style that makes people stop in their tracks? Post a lot of artwork on social media. Are you funny? Make jokes on twitter. Are you chatty? Talk to people. Are you smart? Make intelligent observations on stuff people are interested in. Basically be yourself and be active. This will build your brand. This will let people get to know and like you, and once you are over that hurdle it's way more likely those people who like you will want to check out your work... and chances are they'll like it because they like your art/humor/point-of-view/whatever. In my experience, this works better than trying to have separate social media where you just post comic specific links and info.

dawgofdawgness 2017-09-30 22:02:21 UTC #73

Well... I think I have a little bit of an advantage when it comes to "popular genres" since I make a slice of life comic with... I guess, kind of a generic/popular art style. (though i'm trying my best to make it more unique)

I don't see too many comics here on Tapas about music, though, probably because it's hard to incorporate music into a book lol
Also I think maybe I will have an advantage in the future since there will be LGBT stuff but of course I won't label it "GL" explicitly because that's not what the story's about. It's just a small detail, and it's not meant to shift my comic into the romance category.

joe_galindez 2017-09-30 22:25:36 UTC #74

This makes market reseach even more important. When you can't rely on the old stereotypes you've got to go and make some new ones.