Does making LGBT content online affect your professional career as an artist?

Tobirone 2019-03-25 17:32:23 UTC #7

Like tired_programmer I can only speculate really. And my speculation only can be based from a western-mideuropean standpoint.
Since moved in and out of Netherlands I'd say: Depends on where you are, who you post it as and how much care you put into shadowing your "internet-fingerprint" (anonymity).
In my home country LGBT is more and more seen as "normalish" though at the same time radical voices (out right called in anglophone countries, "being a Nazi / fashist / idiot" in my country ... or at least by me...) rise in contrast. Thus "controversial" ideas of live have gotten a louder voice as well. Come to think of it: It was only in 1995 my country cut loose of a "anti-gay"-law (a law which was instituted by the German Empire back in 1871 ... yes it took us that long). And other laws (like the law that forbids a man to ... well ... rape his wife) have been erected not so far ago as well (1997).

So the question is rather: How much might LGBT a question in your country or state. Even in Germany, which next to Netherlands, is my only viable comparable resource, it can differ a lot. We have 16 states with 16 own constitutions only topped by the federal constitution. And as this is only law, it also shows the way people think (are they conservative? left? right? liberal, green, pink, rainbow .......). In Netherlands in contrary I felt a lot more at ease when it came to topics like that ... because they were private life and seemed to not matter that much. And though Dutch people and Germans have common ancestry and a very connected history, at least since 1949 in mind-matters we gotten very seperate (though those mind-split might even older ... I am talking 16th century).

Now why do I say this? I am being very vague and that is all I can do. Every country has it's own "moral values" and treats its citizens like that. Every employer does too connected to his own origins (culturally and morally) but also in combination to the country where he employs. Mercedes treats its employees differently if they are working in Germany compared if they work in the USA, I can assure you.
If you're from a country like ... let's say Pakistan, your problems with LGBT might be harsher (it's forbidden I think??) than compared to Spain (same sex marriage AND adoption possible since 2005; third country world wide I might add).

In any case if you are too unsure: Mask yourself. Don't get scared though but do your thing. LGBT is an important thing/topic, no matter if you are LGBT yourself or (like me) a supporter of LGBT.

Also @Kelheor Stjepan Sejic is a god! Don't you compare him with us xD ... haha ... though to be true: He too masked himself for a long time. As BDSM artist he is Shiniez, but as "normal" artist he is Nebezial. He only admitted that it was both him after fans asked too many questions.

Kelheor 2019-03-25 17:37:14 UTC #8

Ah, I knew him only as Shiniez for years and I thought he was just making fanart of Marvel sometimes. But just a month ago I found his Twitter, and the fact that he is official artist for them. But I've never read Marvel comics, if I would, it won't be hard to find out

Tobirone 2019-03-25 17:39:30 UTC #9

I am not much a Marvel or DC reader but I LOVE the Harley Quinn series of DC. He made some covers for that as well as at least one or two scenes ... but his original stories are my most favourite gems of him. ... Ah yeah and his hilariously awfull-awesome puns.

punkarsenic 2019-03-25 18:13:50 UTC #10

man, thats a really interesting question, id love to hear some industry insight on this

i suspect with rebecca sugar she would remove anything adult bc she is explicitly making childrens media, and parents or children searching her name and finding that could definitely jeopardise her job, or be upsetting for children. though i bet theres homophobia involved as well; SU is groundbreaking for lgbt representation in cartoons, but they had to be significantly more subtle in the beginning, and SU launched in a time when censorship of lgbt relationships at CN, nickelodeon, and disney was commonplace (see: adventure time, gravity falls... idr what else lol)

though i will say that 'western media' isnt as welcoming to LGBT representation as is sometimes thought; disney only just revealed their first gay character in any media, and are yet to provide any representation in their films (dont @ me about frozen, i dont believe for a second theyll make her gay), marvel hasnt yet had any on-screen LGBT characters, and has made moves to erase valkyrie's bisexuality. progress is certainly being made, but we should keep in perspective the journey we still have ahead of us.

MK_Wizard 2019-03-25 18:23:25 UTC #11

Yes and no. There are lots of factors to consider. My advice is to just have characters act naturally no matter what or what their preference or lifestyle is. Don't make everyone all about them being gay, bisexual, transgendered, genderfluid, etc. Make them into well rounded interesting characters first.

vothnthorvaldson 2019-03-25 19:06:45 UTC #12

I don't think there will be a definitive answer to this question, because as it was already noted, it will depend on so many parameters;

However, I think one important thing to take in account is what you are ready to accept. What you are not ready to accept, you don't have to worry about.

If I take my example: my career is in farming. It's a pretty conservative community, although there is some diversity. Still, I generally avoid LGBT topics, to avoid creating unnecessary frictions. It annoys me a bit, but not too much. Why? Because farming and LGBT representation do not have much connection. I don't think the farming community has a lot of direct potential influence on LGBT issues, would it be in a positive or negative way (except the acceptance of LGBT farmers, but that is a very 'inside' issue, not really something that has a global influence).

However, in a creative environment, I would absolutely refuse to be employed or have to work with someone who would make problems if I have/I am creating LGBT content. So it does not matter to me that they can discover that I make such content, because anyway I won't work for them.

Also, I don't draw porn, but I don't have a problem with it. And I would probably work for someone who don't want their employees to draw porn, but only if LGBT porn is treated the same way as straight porn, I can somewhat understand having an issue with porn artists, for reasons already stated (works targeting young children for eg.). But if LGBT porn is not ok, but straight porn is, I don't want to do anything with these people, even if I myself don't draw porn anyway.

Karmillina 2019-03-25 22:10:17 UTC #13

I'd say for me it's the other way around. I don't really make LGBT content, much less NSFW. It might be one of the reasons my reach is low.

ble 2019-03-26 02:36:41 UTC #14

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vfinnigan 2019-03-26 06:33:49 UTC #15

Marvel Comics has had gay, bi, and even trans characters for decades. As for on screen, while Black Panther doesn't show the relationship between Ayo and Okoye, everybody who knows those characters knows they're attached.

punkarsenic 2019-03-26 09:36:43 UTC #16

this is true, and its great! but... the treatment of those characters has been bumpy throughout the years, depending on whos writing them and whos in charge. i dont want to erase the progress that has been made and the people whove made that progress, but i want to make it clear that i dont think we should be satisfied with what is essentially breadcrumbs.

i admit however i was focused on marvel films - i clocked out of marvel comics a few years ago, and dont keep up with their antics.

but this is the same thing as valkyrie - the fans know theyre gay, but marvel dont dare put it on screen. its progress perhaps, but it still shows the progress we are yet to make.

i think this video says some insightful things on the impact of this kind of 'implied' representation.

vfinnigan 2019-03-26 16:25:54 UTC #17

Now I'm saying this as a bisexual woman - If I see any movie mentioning sexual orientation or a queer relationship - especially of ancillary characters - where and when it's not relevant to the story, that strikes me as trying too hard.

The way I see it, when Ayo and Okoye are on screen, since most of the time they're at work fighting baddies, at those moments, that will take priority over waving a pride flag. These women may be lesbians, but they are defined by badassery and consummate professionalism much more than by their sexual proclivities, like I think most mature, self assured people of all orientations are. (Also, depicting women in general, but especially queer woman as having any purpose that has little to do with sex and nothing to do with the male gaze is wonderful! We need more of that.)

punkarsenic 2019-03-26 17:01:15 UTC #18

whatever fam, we aint gonna agree and i dont care. like we agree generally on goals, just not like, the specifics. so is bickering worth the time?

vfinnigan 2019-03-26 18:35:46 UTC #19

Who's bickering?

This also isn't a representation thing, but a good character development and general good writing thing. I think we'd all prefer being represented by characters who are multifaceted, with unique personalities and different sets of priorities to being represented by tokens or badly written one note stereotypes.

I'm not into representation just for representation's sake. It's got to be well written. Tokenism or outright bad representation only pushes people back in the closet.

punkarsenic 2019-03-26 22:49:46 UTC #20

i just dont really get why were having this non-debate? i dont wanna have it. i came to this thread for insight into how lgbt creators are treated within big companies, i dont think this strain of conversation is pertinent. i also know what i think and know you know what i think and cant be arsed to change your mind bc i know i wont. and also. like. you arent saying anything i disagree with on the surface lol. i also feel like you think im saying something im... not saying? idk. i didnt elect to have this conversation and i dont wanna have it bc its not useful.

EDIT: like actually

this!!! is what i mean. rn we have some badly written tokenism and bad representation in amongst a whole lotta nothing. like you, i dont bother to watch or read stuff just for representation - that behaviour just gets you junk like captain marvel. i wanna see properly written and properly integrated LGBT characters within meaningful and interesting narratives, and i want us, queerness, our various ways of existing, to be normal and commonplace and reflect our reality

Croik 2019-03-26 23:44:49 UTC #21

Except that in the film, Okoye is in a romantic relationship with W'Kabi, a man?

The fact that a woman can have a romantic subplot with a man in an Avenger's film (almost every Avengers film in fact) and it's just part of the plot, but if she had a romantic subplot with a woman it would be "waving a pride flag" is proof enough that better representation is desperately needed.

baasinsimple 2019-03-27 02:39:16 UTC #22

I gonna assume you just mean hentai instead of actual LGBT content based on how you wrote your comment so, it depends on the country your referring to, like the answer is completely dependent on nationality (like Square Enix is Japanese and there are completely different cultural standards you need to consider, while the current day Marvel and DC artist half the time are making some quite the amount of Porn. This includes gay porn). The U.S, nah, The West in general, Nah. Most places in Africa, West Asia or The Middle East, use a pseudonym or you might actually get stoned. It seems like you're using a bit of a "Correlation is Causation" logic here. Rebecca Sugar made some pretty ...hardcore smut that was angled at characters who are young and I mean 'at least a decade from legal' young... and works directly in media for children. I don't think Rebecca Sugar would've gotten the job at CN if they found her shit dude some of that was kind of shadman levels, and there's that versus the comic artists that make vanilla porn that happens to be gay. It all depends on what you draw.

vfinnigan 2019-03-27 04:33:08 UTC #23

I loved that movie. And I missed that. But having a relationship with a member of the opposite sex and being attracted to a member of the same sex aren't exactly mutually exclusive.

vfinnigan 2019-03-27 05:09:08 UTC #24

Not everyone who responds to a comment you make is disagreeing or arguing. I don't mince words in my writing, and I suppose that has me coming across as argumentative, but that's not my intent.

At any rate, writing queer characters as normal people shouldn't affect anyone professionally. Because in stories where sexuality and/or romance aren't front and center, it won't be terribly relevant except as background information along with other details that, though they may give the character greater depth, might not be all that important.

punkarsenic 2019-03-27 07:56:45 UTC #25

oh right... i figured since i was saying 'marvel doesnt do enough for The Gays' and you were saying 'marvel has done The Gays' meant you were disagreeing with me. i didnt otherwise see the point for your statement

but has it affected people professionally??? this is what were not getting an answer on

Antonic 2019-03-27 12:00:06 UTC #26

I know artists that are in animation industry that work and still continue to draw LGBT content, though it's not rated 18 plus. As for hentai artists that I know of, they use their real name when posting professional and safe for kids work, but use fake name when they post hentai.