Hard vs. Soft magic systems (+poll~)

[Candlebite]

Yeah, the road to explaining magic in a story is long.
I plan to explain some of my system sometime in this chapter, but it's still a ways off.

And sure, I'd like to discuss magic systems too.

[Saajing]

[DukeOfOool]

Can I take the lead then or do you have a certain magic type you want to talk about?

[Candlebite]

Sure you can go first.

[darkone4587]

Personally I like Hard Magic systems because it'll allows for a lot more specifics in terms of abilities and it could lead to interesting battles and unique ways for the characters to show off their own abilities and traits.

Soft magic is also fun for more wacky scenarios and grand displays.

[gempompadour]

I prefer hard magic systems because they come with a clear structure of rules and limits that acts almost like another set of laws of nature. It informs readers what can and cannot be done in the creator's universe. No matter how weak or strong the magic is I will always know where on the power curve the characters stand. It's tense to see two people on different ends of the power curve meet because you know the other will get destroyed. Intelligence, cunning and strategy plays a large role in hard magic for this reason.

Soft magic has its charm, though, and as others here have mentioned the Force is a good example of it. I prefer Yoda's original take on it as this mystical binding force that illuminates living beings. It makes the Star Wars universe magical despite being really similar to our own. Or did before the midi-chlorians thing.

[DiegoPalacios]

The trick is to pretend that midi-chlorians don't exist

"its not like we are seeing them"XD

[doomerC]

The way i roll is soft magic makes the governing rules; hard magic emerges from character based specifics. The overall system is very flexible and nigh all-inclusive, but by firmly tying it to a character's psychological profile, skill level and established image, on a character-by-character basis the ability sets have strictly defined functionality and limitations - kind of like MHA having a very loose and adaptable quirk system, but the quirks themselves being highly specific.

[DukeOfOool]

First I ought to excuse myself for disapearing into timeless mist twice in a row. I think I should make a habit of declaring when I go to sleep, when I engage with somebody in a discussion. Instead of disapearing on you.

---

Well then lets talk magic. One magic I'm currently thinking about, because I like contracts so much, is rituals and summonings. Where one can call upon a magical being to do your work.

My take on it them would be, that these beings don't have "magic" besides the ability to peer into neighboring worlds and to cross into those worlds. Well the stronger ones have incredible multitasking skills. So everthing "magic" is just transdimensional beings doing their job. A barrier? Just a dude blocking the way. A floating platform? Same dude holding it up. An alarm ward? Just another guy standing guard.
There are "magics" for anything, because there's an endless stream of unemployed demons, fae and whatnot doing those things. A mystical service industry!

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So @Candlebite, what do you think of this idea? Do you have something to add to this concept, or a critique?

[Candlebite]

Ah, okay, Its fine
And thats a cool idea using contracts instead of magic. Sounds like its really open to different things it could do, but also characters can only "magic" what they have specific contracts for, until they go get a new one.
And there probably could have better contracts require specific things, like a contract requiring you to always do something before having the demon assist you, or just getting these demons/ fae/ etc to accept a contract could be the hard part- or even a mix of both
--
btw @DukeOfOool I might fall asleep soon, its late where i am

[DukeOfOool]

Hmm, maybe offering some thin gof monetary value each time the contract is activated, or even demon and fae specific items/currency. Can definitely work on that. And increasing complexity of the contract forming with increasing power is definitely the minimum requirement. Ha, maybe I'll make it that the hightier demons act like famous artists, who just straight up refuse people out of a whim.

This is definitely the hardest magic system I've created xD.

---

Ok, just write your prefered magic system, whenever you have time. till later

[Candlebite]

@DukeOfOool I am awake now,
And yeah, it's a really cool system

let's see
Besides Devoured World's magic system there's also one story idea I'm working on,

In this other story people don't have magic, but there are magical items scattered around the "dangerous parts" of this world, and have specific abilities.

Though the more someone uses an item they sort of bond with it and get more abilities with that item.

Though it is always possible for someone to lose said item and lose all that progress unless they can get it again.

[DukeOfOool]

Oh, So they're like relicts from a time long past. Cool!
So do those additional abilities corespond with the original ability? I'd think more specialized versions of the original skill, would be the most interesting. Allowing the characters to diversify would make them more and more sameey over time.

And the posibility to lose the item is also a real danger. Is it more physical touching said item or theoretical possesion? Like as long it's in my (e.g.) bag I can use the ability. Either way I just imagined a close quarters fighting scene where both sides are somewhat atuned to one item their fighting over. Both sides trying to steal "their" weapon back. That would be rad!

---

On a side note: I realized how many people tend to want hard systems, but with multiple ways of application. Maximized security with maximized freedom. Wanting the cake and eat it

[Snickerdoodles]

I have been mentally replacing every instance of the word "magic" with the word "taco."

[DukeOfOool]

What benefits do hard tacos have over soft tacos or vice versa?
I am not very well versed in taco systems.

[Snickerdoodles]

I prefer soft because it keeps tacos as tacos, rather than a science

I like the element of mystery, that taco goes beyond mundane classifications and never be fully mastered

Of course this isn't true for all soft taco systems, but it is the system that allows for it

[Candlebite]

You got that right,
And yeah specialized versions of the original powers what I was going for.
For how its used i just went with has to be physically touching you, though i hadn't really thought about it just being in their possession and having its ability, but thats a cool idea i'll be sure to remember

Yeah having both limitations to what the magic can do, and different characters having different ways to solve their problems via magic, is very appealing
--
Though think thats all i have about that system I'm working on- I could talk some more about how Devoured World's magic system works though.

[DukeOfOool]

Thanks.

If you want you could talk about Devoured World's magic I would be delighted, I'm going to start reading it now.
hehehehe scurries away on spider legs

[Snickerdoodles]

Now watch everyone avoid the word "magic."

[DukeOfOool]

What word <>!? I only see tacos.