How do you make Destruction seem like a good thing?

[TheGentleArtist]

See Destruction as a wildfire, it is a necessity to make room for new life to grow.

See Creation as weeds in a garden or other heavily vegetation areas, there is no space to grow and nutrients will be massively sparse.

[ble]

Destroy the monster that will create a new race of world eaters.

[aqua03]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I wonder if I'm having a bit of a problem looking at it from a "Neutral" position on the topic due to the fact that the main protagonists are part of the Dragon race (Their race are descendants of the DRagons named Tarako, FYI) and the antagonists are a group of Dredge Extremists dubbed Royal Crimson. SO I think that the problem is that we're currently viewing things through the "Creation" side of things as opposed to the neutral position. So I think that might be the problem in that regard.

Thanks for the advice, that's certainly got me thinking a lot now.

@TheGreatArtisan @ninjashira That's also a really interesting way of thinking about it as well. Thanks for the advice as well.

[nathanKmcwilliams]

In a different application of creation and destruction, you could look at addiction.

To kick an addiction, you have to destroy the habits and thought patterns that lend to the addiction. Then you have to create new habits and thought patterns to replace them. In that case, Destruction and Creation work together.

[aqua03]

That's also a really interesting way of thinking about it as well. Never really thought about that in that way, either. Thanks for that perspective as well!

[nathanKmcwilliams]

No prob I wanted to share something from my comic, but that would have been spoilers, so I just pulled from my personal experience.

[aqua03]

That makes sense when you put it like that.

(Is it weird I was half expecting you to bring up the Metal Doppel-Rip given that he apparently had powers based around destruction despite being the protagonist of his universe? )

[DiegoPalacios]

some things are not meant to be created....

[aqua03]

Excellent point now that you mention it...

[DiegoPalacios]

Another thing to consider.....if all the villains are from the destruction side, and if all the heroes are from the creation side, you will fail to convey the message of the importance of balance.

[aqua03]

Yeah, that's a good point now that you mention it. I know I did have a plot twist planned where some of the creation side reveal that they're villains and some of the bad guys do redeem themselves and work with the heroes to stop the true villains as well. So maybe focus a bit more on that part perhaps?

[aqua03]

I suppose I could also take a page from Panzer Dragoon (A big influence on Drachenseele's look) and show how too much Creation can be a bad thing by having the terraforming devices the Dragons go haywire and pump out loads and loads of dangerous mutated monsters and the like without limits due to nothing to keep them in check, thus threatening to overrun the Dragons and Tarakos' civilization as a result if that makes sense.

[MrAuto]

If we consider the natural side of things, creation can lead to overpopulation, oversaturation and a complete disruption of harmony. Controlled destruction allows the propagation of less obstructive specials and give them the opportunity to develop.

Okay, so for me, there are a few issues with the premise altogether. First, you have to be clear on what the Dragons create and why they are terraforming in the first place. If they have no other objective other than to create and destroy, then there isn't much of a driving force for them to go to war with each other especially since they were both created by one other superior race.

Perhaps you mean "biomes"? Biospheres are enclosed areas with a controlled environment whereas biomes are sections of land differentiated by climate, flora, and fauna. i.e. arctic biomes, desert biomes, etc. If they are in charge with creating these, the Dredge will need to show-up first to clear and prepare the area before the dragons can begin the "creation" part of the terraforming.

I would not consider including the creation of creatures to either race as there will be conflict on who should be in charge of which. For example, a carnivore is a natural factors used to control the population of herbivores, scavengers and bacteria help to reduce and decompose the leftover carcass and restore nutrients back to the soil which in turn is absorbed by the plants the herbivores eat. If only the dragons are allowed to create, then they in turn create these creatures too which defeats the purpose of the dredge. Although, you can consider that the conflict began because the dredge created these creatures to counteract the rampant growth of what the dragons created. You can set it so that the new creatures the dragons made are overtaking and taking over the native flora and fauna while the dredge, seeing the rapid change and the danger this can cause to the ecosystem created counter-agents to help the native flora and fauna propagate.

Now, another thing to consider is the resources the dragons require to "create". For example, considering the idea of biospheres and what they are, they require a considerable amount of resources to create and maintain. You can consider that it was (in the olden times) the dredge harvested the resources (logging, mining, quarrying, excavation etc.) to which case they were considered of lower standing to the dragons who create. (FYI this will give a deeper aspect to the name since to dredge is to clean out or to dig) although the name is cool, this will give the readers a reason to sympathize with the race despite being assigned to destruction in contrast to the proud and lofty dragons.

Anyway, just my two cents on the ways you can bring out the potential in your idea.

Good luck!

[Prometheus]

Holy crap, you took the words out of my mouth! My first thought was that creation and destruction work together. We can't know how good things are without also experiencing the lows of life. Creation and destruction are the same. Destruction has two sides of a coin, and creation another two sides of a coin. They're both tools and skills that require choice from it's user.

Dare I say, destruction and creation are just like guns. Guns in and of themselves aren't necessarily evil, but the choices of the one holding it make them evil. You could also say it's like words: you can either hurt someone or help someone with your words. It's the same with creation and destruction.

[aqua03]

Thanks for the thoughtful and advice and feedback in regards to this. It really means a lot to me to read that.

Okay, so for me, there are a few issues with the premise altogether. First, you have to be clear on what the Dragons create and why they are terraforming in the first place. If they have no other objective other than to create and destroy, then there isn't much of a driving force for them to go to war with each other especially since they were both created by one other superior race.

Yeah, I did withhold some info for spoiler reasons, but basically the Empyreans created the two to make a new home for themselves after their first home was destroyed and the Dredge and Dragons went to war after something happened that caused the Dredge to go rogue and try to fully destroy everything if that makes more sense.

I would not consider including the creation of creatures to either race as there will be conflict on who should be in charge of which. For example, a carnivore is a natural factors used to control the population of herbivores, scavengers and bacteria help to reduce and decompose the leftover carcass and restore nutrients back to the soil which in turn is absorbed by the plants the herbivores eat. If only the dragons are allowed to create, then they in turn create these creatures too which defeats the purpose of the dredge. Although, you can consider that the conflict began because the dredge created these creatures to counteract the rampant growth of what the dragons created. You can set it so that the new creatures the dragons made are overtaking and taking over the native flora and fauna while the dredge, seeing the rapid change and the danger this can cause to the ecosystem created counter-agents to help the native flora and fauna propagate.

That'd be interesting now that you bring it up. That'll be something I think about more going forward.

Now, another thing to consider is the resources the dragons require to "create". For example, considering the idea of biospheres and what they are, they require a considerable amount of resources to create and maintain. You can consider that it was (in the olden times) the dredge harvested the resources (logging, mining, quarrying, excavation etc.) to which case they were considered of lower standing to the dragons who create. (FYI this will give a deeper aspect to the name since to dredge is to clean out or to dig) although the name is cool, this will give the readers a reason to sympathize with the race despite being assigned to destruction in contrast to the proud and lofty dragons.

(Coincidentally enough, the Dredge got their name from earlier drafts in which the more feral and monstrous early Dredge were called the Dredge because they drained people of their memories. Hence they "dredge" up people's memories to eat them.)

Yeah, going back to the "sympathy" thing, that's always been a bit of a problem I've had with Drachenseele is that the Dredge sometimes come off as more sympathetic despite being the antagonists (and modern Dredge society being run by a totalitarian regent in a cyberpunk dystopia type situation) compared to the DRagons and Tarako. Which is a bit of a problem considering that the Tarako are supposed to be the protagonists for the most part. So it's kinda hard to come up with a good solution for that type of thing. (Though that may also be another case of me overcomplicating things to an extreme degree...)

(And I can't have it end with both systems being completely upended and have everyone start over, because that kinda also breaks my story's future arcs given my long term plans for Drachenseele if that makes sense.)

Holy crap, you took the words out of my mouth! My first thought was that creation and destruction work together. We can't know how good things are without also experiencing the lows of life. Creation and destruction are the same. Destruction has two sides of a coin, and creation another two sides of a coin. They're both tools and skills that require choice from it's user.

Dare I say, destruction and creation are just like guns. Guns in and of themselves aren't necessarily evil, but the choices of the one holding it make them evil. You could also say it's like words: you can either hurt someone or help someone with your words. It's the same with creation and destruction.

That's a pretty good way of thinking about things as well. (Amusingly enough, I actually have a similar philosophy with a lot of inanimate objects as well. They themselves aren't inherently good or evil, it's what people do with them in that regard.)

Maybe it might be good to research a few more mythologies' and cultures' views on Creation, Destruction, and the Balance thereof as well given that I'm already taking a lot of inspiration from world mythology as a whole. (Heck, the three main deities of Drachenseele were loosely based off of the Trimuti of Indian Myths. Which consisted of the Creator, Preserver, and Destroyer.)

[MrAuto]

Look into Demeter in Greek myth. She is the goddess of seasons representing creation in spring and destruction in winter.

If you want the Tarako to be the protagonists, you need to find a way to drive the story into where they will experience hardships. You can't have sympathy if nothing bad is happening to you.

If they are the descendants of the original conflict, you need to create a scenario that would drive them to take action such as the dredge attacking the protagonists world. Although keep in mind that it would be cliché if all the good guys come from the side of light. (you need neutral parties or someone from the dredge too if you want to resolve the conflict).

[aqua03]

Thanks for the mythological recommendation on that end, I'll look into it.

Yeah, I know I was planning on having the main inciting incident being a Dredge extremist group known as Royal Crimson attacking the main character's town to steal one of the main plot macguffins for their own purposes. (And probably have a prologue showing said group torching another Tarako town as they start their campaign.)

Good point about the neutral parties and having a Dredge on the heroes' side as well. I know I was planning on having the main antagonists (Royal Crimson) be a group comprised mostly of anti-villains (Villains who do a villainous thing for a seemingly noble goal) and they end up joining with the heroes for the final battle against the true villain (a god of destruction who just wants to wreck stuff for the sake of it) and one of the heroes is a Dredge as well, but they don't know they are until later. So maybe it might be good to have a Dredge join the party earlier than that now that you mention it. (Heck, they could even fill in the "Shadow" elemental slot on the party given that we already have Fire, Water, Ice, Air, Earth, Thunder, and Aether/Light represented by the protagonists.)

Thanks again for the help. It's given me a lot to think about.

[aqua03]

Maybe it might be a good idea to have a more "Neutral" party of sorts in Drachenseele.

Like, maybe (due to spoiler reasons), I have the Tarako and modern descendants of the Dragons and the Ancient Dredge not know that they are the descendants of said ancient races and thus think that they're just an entirely separate species that can tap into the power of of either ancient species for some unknown (to them, anyways) reasons. Thus they are a bit more "Outsider looking in" perspective to the conflict between the Dragons' creation and the Dredges' destruction if that makes sense.

Or maybe "Machines vs Nature" could be a better theme to explore given the colossal hippie I can be when it comes to environmental issues....

[MrAuto]

you can also draft in a hybrid between a dragon or Tarako and a dredge as somewhat a neutral party. You know, a splinter group from both sides who decided to better live together in secrecy than join their ancestors in a futile war.

I would suggest not to scrap the entire think especially when you have already drafted most of the setting. You can add machines vs nature as another arc near the end or the climax specially when the war would have forced at least one side to develop machines.

[aqua03]

That makes sense. I knew I had a Dredge-Tarako hybrid as a (Begrudging) part of the villains' group, but I never thought of having a neutral party that were hybrids.

Could hypothetically make that work as well given that I did have an idea for the characters meeting a secret colony of sorts of Tarako and Dredge working together to solve their world's problems later on in the story as well. So there's that as well.

Thanks again for the feedback in that regard.