How many of you practice the art fundamentals and do studies?

[Kura]

Well comic are a lot more than art especially when you're doing it on your own like most web-comic artists are. There are more than just art fundamentals that need to be learned, as for me art is not the most important thing that the comic should be focusing on. Anything tied to readability should be the main focus, and these things can be tied in both art and writing. Typesetting, story-boarding, layout, flow and producing pages or episodes at consistent scheduled are going to be the biggest thing you want to focus on when coming to comics, because that's what determines if readers can easily read your comic.

As for art fundamentals, yes, they are important and you should know them before starting and improve them gradually when you can, but also I don't think that should stop you trying to make a comic? As everything is a learning process, so why not start as soon as you can and improve as you go?

I also don't think that the majority of artists are ignoring them, comic artists in general just have so many process to go through, many of which are also in the learning process, so the progress is slower depending on where it is on the list of priorities.

[BloodOgre]

It is though. It's hard to approach the topic of fundamentals and stylistic choice. It always descends into hostility and someone being condescending, even though all I've really brought up is studies will make you better at art, that's it. I think everyone got hung on the fact that I myself am stopping everything to do studies for a prolonged period of time and nothing else. I'm not saying everyone should do that. I'm just making the argument that focused practice of fundamentals are more important than exploring style for faster growth. That's my barebones argument. Not being condescending. I haven't called anyone out of their name or insulted, I've just made a discussion on something I wanted to talk about. There should be civility about it like when I previously talked to Joanne.

[BloodOgre]

Of course, it's one big process. It's not on par with making a video game on your own, but it shares multiple processes and a lot of planning. That's what I personally look at it like, you've got to write a narrative, be able to character design, make backgrounds, market it, and be dilligent about working on and updating it. Personally for me art is an ongoing lesson in preparation, patience, and skill.

You dont have to stop your comic for fundamentals and studies, that's just what I'm doing. I want my comic to be closer to my potential by the time I come back to it.

I feel like they are, I have seen so many comics with that put so much emphasis on a stylistic and working fast that their ends up lacking. A lot of these comics that I speak of dont even have backgrounds, just a big room of a color with a gradient. I believe this due to a lack of practice and not getting out of one's comfort zone. A lot of final webcomic updates still have sketch lines and you can tell which ones are purposeful or not. Although that's a lack of refinement I think.

Thanks for your reply

[UrMom]

For the most part I try to study, but lack of time keeps me from really getting into it. Anymore I learn as I go with my comic, one of the reasons why I even made it was to improve my ability to draw urban settings, difficult angles, and perspective. So I make an effort to reference photos of cities, or people/photos of people, or that doll thing you can download if I have anatomy trouble. Although I keep my style while referencing life.

The subject of artistic improvement is discussed, but not as often an others. I assume it's because there's only so much you can talk about with it? All you can really say is "study life, learn composition and color theory!", then give some study material, and that's it? Also from what I've see some people take it the same way as getting critique, treating it like a threat of sorts. That's just some though.
Learning the basics is important... if you really want to get better at drawing. Many people in the webcomic scene are just creating for fun or relaxation, and given that webcomics are free, it'd be a bit much to expect better quality. I myself have that "alway improve" mindset, but anymore I think enjoying what you do is more important, regardless of how backwards that hand is on that wrist.

[beta1042]

i used to do figure study practice daily... but lately I do it more like weekly. I should do it more, and I do want to get better, but I get distracted or forget XD

[chickknightgreenleaf]

well I had have some fundamental class and work on statues and stuff is that count?

[BloodOgre]

Great answer, I agree. I still feel like it's an important conversation to bring up. And this topic is aimed at people who are looking to take art seriously in the future not just as a hobby.

[BloodOgre]

As in sculpting? Yeah for sure I'd say that counts, after a certain point drawing becomes a pseudo sculpting activity(thinking in three dimensions and so on).

[punkarsenic]

idk, maybe its just me then, because you still sound really condescending to me. theres this vibe, from the very beginning of your post, that youre assuming everyone youre talking to doesnt appreciate or even understand the importance of fundamentals, that youre trying to encourage us to get something we already get. and youve seen thats not true. but thats just the vibe i pick up.

i agree with you that studying the fundamentals is important, and everyone should practice drawing from life. what im saying though, is that you dont need to press pause on style until the end of that process - master studies are also practices in developing style, and in life drawing classes youre also developing style. we live in a post-picasso art world - how much worth does old master realism have in art now? thats an interesting conversation to have.

anyway, as i said, i dont think this is actually a controversial topic in the wider art world - people (and by people, i mean i see it a lot online) are just perceiving the art world as "teens and 20-somethings who havent quite found their feet yet." let the young ones find their feet, you remember what it was like to not understand the importance of fundamentals, weve all been there.

[chickknightgreenleaf]

er... no, I mean drawing statue, but yeah I think sculpting is just drawing in 3d

[punkarsenic]

also,

I want my comic to be closer to my potential by the time I come back to it.

watch out for idea debt

Imagining your future projects is holding you back.

while taking time out to practice is a good idea, id recommend having some practice comics to keep you developing that side of your skills, if comics are what you wanna make. where your studies are practicing drawing, making comics is how you practice comics - and theyre their own beast.

[BloodOgre]

I'm not going into this with you again. It's silly and dumb honestly. It's just a conversation. All in all there have only been 2 people here who have replied who've been really rattled by what I said and think I'm being condescending and rude. I can't change that opinion and if you have it so be it.

[punkarsenic]

aw thats a shame, i was really interested in expanding this to a discussion of how fundamentals play into the modern art world. but okay

[BloodOgre]

I feel like you don't respect me or the conversation so why discuss something else honestly? I'd rather not... sorry. There was just no need for all that in the first place.

[UrMom]

Well... I mean, if you want to get in some really good conversations about artistic fundamentals Concept Art is a pretty good place. Or at least it was back when I hung out there. That whole site is dedicated to improving your art.
A lot of people here most likely take their visual work seriously, but more in the form of improving their skills in comic creation (panelling, lettering, readability, setting, mood, etc) rather than anatomical studies. I myself take fundamentals seriously, and am super nerdy about the subject despite being a hobbiest, but I just don't have the time for it.

Good luck in your endeavours!

[BloodOgre]

Yeah, I've been there and Cubebrush is also really good it's a newer site but it's awesome! You should check it out it's made by the former Lead concept artist at Blizzard.

Although their forums and art blogs are kind of hidden. But they host contests and competitions there very often

[Saajing]

This forum seems to have gotten a little heated, lol.

I think it's safe to say that this topic doesn't pertain to the webcomic community only, but for the sake of simplicity I won't go on a tangent community, haha. I think it's also important to note that comics aren't just about artwork; in fact, the foundations of comic making can be broken up into equal parts art, storytelling and design (which is a separate entity from art).

---

Based on your initial post, I notice the word "STYLE" come up a lot, and most of the arguments stem from there. You said that style should be the last thing that a budding artist should focus on; @punkarsenic said style making and foundations can be learned at the same time. I say you're both right (and I don't think you were condescending, but maybe you didn't initially explain yourself well enough).

There was a person on here recently that asked for art advice, and what I wrote, in the beginning, pertains a lot to what is being discussed here: https://forums.tapas.io/t/needing-advice-on-my-art/25622/8?u=saajing. It's pretty long, so I'll just be paraphrasing here.

To make it clear so everyone is on the same page (newbie or veteran), the term style refers to the abstraction of the observed world, based on conscious subjective memory enhanced by the imagination. Big words, lol. All n all, style is a form of abstraction.

If you are asking why young artists don't focus on the foundations and only on style, It's because they don't understand what stylizing truly means, and they are unconsciously abstraction from established abstractions (i.e. anime and manga) because they are aesthetically pleasing and they want to mimic that. Also, (and I think this is what @punkarsenic was trying to explain) even if they do become serious in pursuing the art, and start to learn the fundamentals, i.e., learning to see, they will still be unconsciously abstracting those fundaments because they are just beginning to become comfortable with the forms they see outside of those established abstractions (or observational drawing) and are now putting their visions on paper.

I don't think you were saying new artists should draw like Rembrandt or DiVinci before they start their comic-making adventures. I think what you were really trying to ask is why they don't value draftsmanship skills more. It's a reasonable question, and in truth, it's mainly because they are young, and they are still learning; those who are serious will seek more knowledge, and those who are not will stay right where they are.

The fundamentals do seem to be a hot-button issue with a lot of young artists (i.e. inexperienced artists) who, as @punkarsenic mention, ignore them. As someone who has gone through the illustrious " this is just how I draw" stage, in the words of Kevin Hart:

"They gon' learn today."

[punkarsenic]

Also, (and I think this is what @punkarsenic was trying to explain) even if they do become serious in pursuing the art, and start to learn the fundamentals, i.e., learning to see, they will still be unconsciously abstracting those fundaments because they are just beginning to become comfortable with the forms they see outside of those established abstractions (or observational drawing) and are now putting their visions on paper.

ding ding ding!

[Saajing]

Alright, alright, alriiiiiight!

[BloodOgre]

I think you worded that perfectly. But I do find it odd, that right after I posted this topic I got 3 seperate warnings about this forum from 3 different people about just talking about studies and fundamentals in my inbox. Someone here in the topic even said that people here get threatened when fundamentals and studies are brought up.

Why is that? Is it taboo to talk about this kind of stuff here or what? This was right after the first post before this silliness went down.

I even got an invitation to a discord that was fed up with this forum acting the way it does about this topic. That is very concerning. I don't come here often but jesus. I wasn't expecting that.