How to avoid discontinuing? What is your writing process?

radicles 2017-06-06 18:01:45 UTC #1

I noticed most of my threads are quite literally always what-it-says-on-the-tin, and this one is no different.

First, when i refer to discontinuing i generally mean dropping a comic, or little by little forgetting it exists. Its a fairly common problem at least on my friend circle and i admit its also a issue for me- there is an idea, i know how i should go about the comic process (more or less) but when it comes to producing there is... a blank. sort of like a continued state of 'what to do'- and little by little i ended up understanding this was linked to how:

you have a clear idea of your story in your mind, characters, themes, scenarios. even arcs sometimes, or a beggining-to-end mental movie

but

You have a mess in your hands when trying to put it down on paper, and thus give up altogether after a few failed attempts. Series' death ensues.

and since i keep running into a wall with my completely messy production process, here is the question: What is YOUR writing/comicmaking process to keep your series going in a steady rhythm? How are your ideas organized? what are common mistakes that end up killing comics?

anitacomics 2017-06-06 18:41:48 UTC #2

The secret is planning ahead.

The first necessary step is: know the finale. A good idea needs to be wrapped up, or it gets lost through the way. Once the end is clear, I begin breaking down the story in smaller parts. In my case, the serie will end in 15 chapters. I know where the characters have to be in chapter 15. I broke it down to three 5-chapters series. Each series already has its more or less detailed finale ready. You can go fractal on this (each chapter broke down to scenes, each scene to pages, each page to panels)

The second necessary step is: know yourself. Know your limits, your potential, your strenghts, and last but not least, your times. Working on a series is no less than a job, that you shouldn't quit until you're done (hey, no one is gonna die, but you'll leave an unfinishied story!). Ask yourself how much time you can invest, and if you really want to invest it.

Try yourself out in shorter stories before diving into a series, complete some stories, see how much time it takes, build up some experience in shaping the ideas. Keep a schedule, and do your best to respect it, even if no one cares except for you.

joannekwan 2017-06-06 18:56:06 UTC #3

For me I rarely ever start drawing a project unless I know full well the beginning, middle, and end of it, or have really strong feelings for it. The ones I do start with a vaguer idea are usually more character studies and the plots are hardly intricate. They require less planning to weave in plot-points and red herrings, etc., I also don't have to think about the dialogue as much since it's mostly casual conversations.

However for my fiction epics (high and low fantasy, and one sci-fi), I've been letting those sit for years. I usually don't work on development of a project unless I'm struck with inspiration. It's just not as good when it's forced. Hence I like writing down my ideas, waiting for a bit, and seeing if after a month or longer it's still good or exciting.

All my current on-going projects on Tap have complete scripts. When I officially published the first page of two of them, I'd say the scripts were 60–70% finished. So there is wiggle room, I just enjoy having direction. And just because the scripts are complete, doesn't mean I won't edit and fine-tune the dialogue and or pacing to better fit with preceding pages.

Pandastrophic 2017-06-06 19:03:36 UTC #4

I think first of you need to understand why is it that you keep running into a wall, I think you have a good understanding the story aspect with your first bullet point so it might not even be the writing process that's blocking you. Do you think it's the art aspect? or is it pacing the story? or paneling? what do you specifically have trouble with and what is it about your production process that's not working for you?

I'm asking all these questions because I kinda relate to this with my old comic which had TONS of problems but it wasn't until I actually sat down and evaluated both my writing and art that I was able to find out what was blocking me. One aspect I stuggled with back then was translating character traits into the plot visually, in my current comic I realised I actually didn't want a plot heavy comic and I just worked on developing my characters a lot before I even started writing anything and when I did that I felt the characters managed to carry the story much better and their character traits showed throughout.

The main thing that ends up killing comics is if the creator doesn't love it anymore. The best decision I've made is actually colour my comic, because it's fun and it helped me enjoy working on it everyday. Find a way to make working on your comic something that's fun and not tedious, it will be stressful from time to time but if you generally have fun working on it you'll have more motivation to keep going.

radicles 2017-06-06 19:39:20 UTC #5

Personally, it's the scripting part. I'm no stranger to narrating or writing small stories, however when i do they're always lenghty narrations or full with small details that translate better to a reading experience than to comic panels. when it comes to the pages or thumbnails themselves i always feel as if something is missing, or as if i should have taken an alternate scenario instead, like there are multiple worlds in which the story is playing and i went with the most basic or simple version of it one instead of the interesting bit.

so far, my comic has more or less two chapters up if you count the prologue as something of its own- and these two chapters have been done mostly with thumbnails (following the cartoon animating formula where action is drawn on thumbnail and dialoge described below) but as soon as i got to the start of the second chapter following the thumbnail formula i got stuck. too many panels without dialogue, i felt like the pacing was way too slow and stuck to small details and then jumped into something way too fast that completely broke the previous notion. ended up scraping a few times, and now here am i trying to make sense of where the planning can do better : / i feel like i should try and write down all chapters first but then there is the fear that most of it will be scrapped and only the barebones of a lot of words make it to the final page-cut. never worked with comic scripts seriously before!

joannekwan 2017-06-06 20:13:19 UTC #6

I suppose it really comes down to finding a way to plan that works for you.
My scripts read more like screenplays than comic scripts in that it's mostly just the dialogue with very little description for settings or actions. Also I never think of the paneling or thumbnailing until I'm sketching it to go right to inking later.

Pandastrophic 2017-06-06 20:43:45 UTC #7

I actually totally understand what you're going through, I tend to change my mind a lot, the first draft of a scene is honestly never the final for me, and I always go back and edit everything in it, so don't worry changing your mind and wanting to improve your scenes is totally normal and I always feel like it's never too late to change something until you post it.
Like you, I actually used to use only thumbnails in the early stages of my comic but then sorta felt like I needed something like a timeline? I wouldn't describe it as a script however it became something that's kinda detailed but not too much (example below) and because it wasn't incredibly detailed I didn't feel bad about changing things in it and going back to edit here and there, your 'script' doesn't have to the traditional type of detailed script it can be just a way for you to list your ideas, change them up and edit them.

You don't have to write down all the chapters to understand where you're going with the story, but I found it better to know your ending and try to remain significantly ahead of where you're working.
My 'timeline' scrips goes up to episode 82(+) I'm storyboarding episode 67 and I'm posting episode 59, because I'm remaining ahead in the writing it made it much much easier to storyboard and gave me a lot of time to go back and fix anything in the writing because I wouldn't be getting to episode 80 for a really long time (it's episodes because my comic is webtoon format but you can go by parts or chapters)

Example, this is how it looks like in my script: mostly description, and some important dialogue.

This is the actual episode: https://tapas.io/episode/679704

I'm not sure if you'll benefit from this but as someone who changes their mind a lot too I found a simple and short but very organised script + thumbnailing the most helpful for me.

shazzbaa 2017-06-06 20:44:44 UTC #8

A couple thoughts on how I think about pacing, in case they're helpful!!

For my most recent chapter, instead of just thumbnailing or scripting from the beginning to see where it goes, I would kind of break the concept for a chapter down to smaller and smaller chunks. So, I'll start with "Chapter 3 is the one where they get to a big city, get separated, meet Xira, and have a run in with the cultist's soldiers." Most of my future chapters are defined this way, maybe at most a vague list of Things That'll Happen In This One -- I prefer giving myself some wiggle room to develop the details of future chapters so that I don't get bored!

Anyway, I take that and I break that down into a list of all the scenes that need to happen ("they arrive at the city, Jonan gets them through security, then they make a plan to meet at the church if anyone gets lost," etc etc)
At this point I can kinda see if that series of events feels interesting, or if there are gaps in logic, or scenes I hadn't really thought about, or if things feel like they're taking too long, before sitting down to draw a bunch of thumbnails.

After that, I break that list of scenes down into a bullet point or sentence for What Happens on each individual page. (Page 1: they crash land outside the city. Page 2: conversation about the guy they're going to meet. Page 3: they learn about the security outside the gate, etc etc) Since I do a weekly comic, this is important for me to do so that I can make sure that each page has SOMETHING happening on it, and it's easy for me to avoid things like "Page 12: they continue running, Page 13: they run some more, Page 14: they finally arrive" where a scene is going to feel way too slow with individual updates.

So by the time I sit down to do An Actual Script or Actual Thumbnails (I do both, but which one I do first varies), I've already had a chance to see whether the pacing is working, and I'll make the thumbnails and script for each page based on the pacing I've already decided on -- so if I know "they have to get through the forest and arrive at the town on this page" then I can't get caught up on the details there -- I know I have to move quickly to get that entire moment to fit on one page.

Jesse Hamm shared a different method for a similar idea on twitter, which I've been using to help me get a handle on my next chapter. Highlights:

I don't have strict page counts for my chapters, but giving myself a rough allotment "if this chapter is around 50 pages, then this important scene should get about 12 pages" seems to sometimes be a helpful starting point for breaking down the scenes and figuring out which moments need to be condensed and which moments need time to build up.

radicles 2017-06-06 22:43:39 UTC #9

i definitely benefited from this- its nice to see how the short description translates into the finished episode with added details and dialogue, its something i do quite a bit and i always thought it was a wrong approach but if its been working for you for so many episodes it must not be a bad deal :') thanks a lot for taking the time to explain!!!

radicles 2017-06-06 22:47:36 UTC #10

i've never seen this break up method before but it sounds like a very neat way to separate arcs :0 page count isnt something that looked like a problem before, but it could be the reason why i think the pacing isnt working as much!

and your tips- they're also great! i feel like tackling the broader parts of the story being played and then separating them into smaller bits is an easier way to write for me, and more objective since it'll get the important points across while leaving room for more humanizing details and small interactions 8) thanks a lot!

indagold 2017-06-06 23:32:49 UTC #11

Know your limitations, know your skill level, time availability and how willing you are to continue stuff.

Stop trying to make an epic story that'll take up all the time out of your life, especially when you barely have a year under your belt in experience. I know people want to make a masterpiece of epic proportions to get acclaim and love and fans and money but never realize how that will impact your life. And when they do realize they're just like "fuck it." and it's dead within 2 chapters.

Also make a reasonable buffer for you and your fans. One where you aren't rushing to make pages.

revisionstudios 2017-06-06 23:48:21 UTC #12

Could you expand on this a bit? Personally I find it easier to show those details in a comic format. Body language, expressions, accessories, props--you can incorporate so much that fleshes out a scene in one panel without dragging down the pacing. If there's anything in particular you feel like you have trouble with maybe I can help!

It looks like you've gotten a lot of good advice already, so here's some in a slightly different vein: I feel it helps me a lot to keep on target when I try to bring a focus to the scope of the comic. Set goals on how much you want to complete each month, then break it down into tasks every week, every day--break it down until you feel comfortable working. And give yourself a little breathing room so you don't get overwhelmed.

For me it's more about persistence and making the work time a habit rather than waiting for inspiration to arrive. Keep a healthy buffer for when life happens, keep organized (but not so organized that you feel suffocated) and don't beat yourself up if you miss a small deadline.

As for writing, it's just the nature of the craft that you'll have to write and rewrite. But it's a heck of a lot easier to spot flaws in an existing piece of writing and edit it than it is to write from nothing every time!

Pandastrophic 2017-06-07 06:29:58 UTC #13

I don't think there is a wrong way to do things, just write in the way you're comfortable with. Some episodes have more writting and dialogue than this in the script but it just depends, generally having to see your 'script' in short paragraphs and in order, almost like a timeline helps a lot and helped me sort out some pacing issues too.
I use google docs to write it btw and I highly recommend it because it just auto-saves and you can open it and write anywere even on your phone.

radicles 2017-06-07 15:08:11 UTC #14

thissssssss this is very important! i'm starting out with a five chapters max story to settle the world and characters for a better/ more fleshed out narrative that ties in with the first comic, but i remember first envisioning HUGE stories with lots and lots of characters and no time limit determined- and that's a fatal flaw for writers and artists.

Generally people tell us to 'dream big' write stories 'that speak to our heart and ideals and say something to the world' and thats nice and inspiring to new creators but not objective advice. You also have to know your flaws, what you need to improve on, and have realistic goals and experience to make it work. i know i'm not the only one looking for advice while reading this thread to yep gotta point at this bit.

i feel like i went full on vagueing, sorry- i meant that, sometimes a written narrative can translate feelings and internal thoughts beautifully in a way a voice-over can't.

more practical examples: How in the Life of Pi a GREAT part of the book is only his thoughts and internal monologues, sensations he feels during that hard trip with the tiger, the feeling of desolation but hope- the movie did wonderfully well with the visuals and the beautiful cgi, but a lot of his feelings and thoughts were lost in silent moments of the movie, that were pretty big on themselves. (and that movie used a lot of voice over too!)

i feel like the pressure of translating feelings/internal thoughts silently only with visuals is a hard job to do as an artist, not impossible, but it can go wonderfully well or just not be noticed at all.

revisionstudios 2017-06-07 23:17:12 UTC #15

Oh I see!

Yeah, I completely understand. Instead of script, my story is like a basic prose, and while writing it I ran into that problem too--going too deep into internal thoughts that wouldn't play well visually.

I think it can absolutely be done well, but you're right it's super hard to translate. Personally, I've found I'm most successful when abandoning the idea that the information in the prose narration HAS to be delivered through narration in the comic. Finding ways to use the comic medium to your advantage instead of clinging to a way you did it when writing, you know? Like instead of verbalizing the thoughts of a character, having them act on those thoughts more clearly. I feel like even if it goes over the heads of most people, they still get the sense of what the character's feeling or thinking, or they may try to rationalize it in their own mind.

Doesn't mean I think you can't show internal monologues or thoughts of course. Just can't overdo it. 8/;

EdenStar 2017-06-07 23:42:59 UTC #16

I understand where your coming from, I'm more of a novelist myself so when working with an artist I have to do my best to avoid putting non-critical information that bloats the script and makes it hard to interpreter. I've written a lot of shorter comics to get in the habit of telling the story in the leanest possible way. It can be difficult to cull out a lot of information but its important to decide if you want an illustrated book or a comic. Comics should try to do as much as possible non-verbally which makes them more time consuming. I love the book the invention of hugo cabret which has a heavy degree of illustration but is not a comic. Since Tap has image support coming for novels you might want to think about which works better for you.

Every line in the following example is about 1/2 - 1 page worth of the comic. I only put what I think is critical for the artist to know in order to draw a scene correctly. Words for Pictures by Brian Michael Bendis was a big influence on my process.

Strolling

A young woman is walking alone at night, a man with a knife is following her but she is unaware and enjoying a smoke while she looks at the stars.

SFX:(soft and sneaky) tap tap tap tap

She turns back to look but the man is already hidden. She begins walking again and the man with the knife waits in hiding. Betobeto-san beings following her as well.

SFX: (soft but not sneaky) Tap Tap Tap Tap

The woman is a little annoyed as she walks but doesn't look back. She steps to the side and under the cover of a dark bus bench cover.

Woman: After you Betobeto-san.

The woman waits for Betobeto-san to pass. The man with the knife starts following Betobeto-san and passes by without seeing her.

T.S.Thorn 2017-06-08 02:58:03 UTC #17

I mean I know its good to come up with a beginning middle and end but wouldn't you just be limiting yourself? Let's say you want 30 chapters, but you go over that you should think about splitting it up into different sagas of books or comics.

EdenStar 2017-06-10 20:51:43 UTC #18

That's more of a reason to finish the story before you start drawing than anything else. You can cut back length if you need to or split it. Not having a plan usually results in burn out as you end up with more than you want to actually do.

UbePie 2017-06-11 14:37:31 UTC #19

Before i started doing comics I wrote, and i got writers block a lot, for the reasons you said. You have everything in your head but when you write it down, or you draw it out it's different. So this is what i started doing, and the wording might sound strange. But I let the characters write their own story.

You come up with an idea you come up with a plot and a few key points, but you don't come up with every last detail, or every last thing that happens in an episode. You start out to develop your characters and the main points of your story and then you let your characters lead you towards where the story needs to go based on the end you've come up with. If you try to make your story fit the movie in your head it's never gonna be good enough. It'll never be just right, so you give up. But if you let it be organic, and go with the flow you won't feel so pressured, or disappointed if it doesn't go exactly as planned.