I want your Feedback: Collaboration Rules

[Rasp]

I am fine stopping when I cease getting direct replies. I have had lots of questions directed at me since this thread started. I don't know anything about what has been previously said or if those positions have changed I'm just giving my thoughts on why I think this is not going to fix the problem and is going to create its own problems.

[GamerPrincessXI]

I made three pitches so far. XD

[skicoak]

Here's my personal feedback ...

I blocked the entire category of collaboration because of how many posts were trainwrecks.

The enclosed form appears to at least guarantee the trains start off on the right tracks... Trains on tracks could easily entice people to re-open the category.

However, any system that allows for trains to run off the rails immediately within, but somehow segregated, in the category is not going to change my interest in unblocking the category.

[skicoak]

I made three pitches so far. XD

Just talking about the collaboration thread has given me a headache already​

[GamerPrincessXI]

To be fair....(Yes, I'm quoting Last Week Tonight: John Oliver), I have no idea how to talk to internet people. If you call yourselves that. I am a nervous wreck when it comes to talking about myself. But give me, another person to talk about and I'd go on about them for hours. I don't know pitching a story should sound easy as pie but to me...It's crazier than a fiddler on the roof. I don't know if people are interested enough in my story so I reveal everything about it and I don't know if it's a good idea. (Idk, I talk down about ideas a lot.)

[cain3]

It's not feasible to create a repeat category where the sole purpose is to negate Guidelines. I can only imagine it would bring confusion to new members of this community.

I created this topic to gain feedback on possible guidelines from the community who would benefit from them.

@Rasp I have heard your concerns and I understand where you are coming from. But I must agree with Joanne Kwan. Your pitch was perfectly within the guidelines here. It would have not been affected by them if they existed previous to your posting.

I believe this guideline is flexible enough for anyone to use. For example, deadlines/timeframe. It's better to know up front there's a deadline before agreeing later. But if you're a new creator and haven't planned a time frame yet, it's perfectly okay to say "We can discuss a timeframe later to work with our schedules."

Now, if anyone has any other feedback for these guidelines. Let me know.

I'll be here tomorrow.

[skicoak]

I don't have that awkwardness but I can understand it.

But the majority of the stuff in that form is simple logistical stuff that should be considered before approaching potential collaboration...pay, position/skills sought, schedule/scale, link to previous work.

The actual story pitch... I'm sure it's a range, from elevator pitch to full synopsis, that depends on the selling style of the original poster. I'm betting the only thing that would get flagged there is the same "it's a secret" red flag we see all the time.

[skicoak]

The only little hitch I see is items 2 and 6...

Project Details / Pitch / Sample:

Schedule/scale: (Deadlines, the length of the work, etc)

...are very writer seeking artist for specific project.

Should the form have a second version more suited for artists seeking writer/project?

[GamerPrincessXI]

Ah....To be honest, the last time, I pitched something it was with Jordan Peele's production team. I kinda had a (Wanna Be Famous moment) and thought yay! Months down the line, no.....it wasn't that at all. I pitched my story here as it was completed and wanted it to be turned into a comic. The artist and I got along fine it was just after awhile...Our communication skills dropped like nothing from either of us.

[Rhonder]

I dunno, I'd argue those are general enough to accommodate most types of collaborators.

"Project Details" as an artist seeking writer could legitimately just be "looking for a writer with a complete story" or "looking to collaborate on an original story with a writer"

or for group projects, "looking to do a holiday collaboration" or "looking to come up with a short story with a group of creators".

Schedule/Scale is similar, if you're an artist looking to work on something short or in a general length range, you can say so. Or if you don't care or want to find a long project, that's something you can specify as well.

[skicoak]

Not necessarily disagreeing with your points but the answers don't stack as neatly from the artist's side of the equation ... The looking for paid/unpaid stipulation is gonna alter the schedule/scale answer greatly.

Would you not concur?

[Rasp]

If I cleared the bar with those slapdash efforts then it feels like the people who actually want the category reformed aren't going to get what they want. If that post clears the bar then I'm really struggling to see how this will improve things. That post is borderline incomprehensible gibberish and this comes from the guilty party. I guess I don't understand what it is your changing. I do not see anything different between what I did and the posts people are complaining about.

I'm really trying to understand what it is you're trying to accomplish and... I just don't see it.

I'm stuck with the same problem of not having any idea what it is the new guidelines would want from me and that is driving me up the wall. If this is how we're going I feel like its important I know what I'm doing. Right now I wouldn't even know where to start. I would be staring at my pitch un-submitted having no idea If I need to go over it again or what. I didn't used to have to worry about that.

It was bad enough worrying about if someone would like my ideas to work with me. Now I have to hope I did that and hope I passed an bar that's invisible because I cant read minds. Putting myself out there like that is not easy under ideal circumstances, I'm really very shy, and not good with confrontation as proven by how this whole thread has been slowly pulling me apart.

[Rhonder]

Eh not necessarily. I agree by nature an artist's collab post may be less wordy or potentially more vague than a writer's since the bulk of what they're bringing to the table is visual style and skill (and thus the heavy lifting section is in sample artwork/portfolio) but all of the questions in the proposed skeleton are things that still apply to artists in some manner, and not differently enough to devise a secondary skeleton. Especially since the OP of these threads doesn't necessarily have to be the end all, be all of the discussion- if a writer wanted to come in and make a pitch that differs somewhat from what the artist specified they could do so, and negotiation could occur. But just making sure they're substantial enough as a starting point xD like if the artist doesn't want to take on a project of more than 20 pages for example, or only likes to work in certain genres, or absolutely won't work in a certain genre, (or doesn't care xD) these are all the types of details good to get out up front~ I think @Jenny-Toons post from earlier summarized it well-

it's less about having a full idea out in the open and more about being completely honest with your intent.

[ViktorGrim]

I kinda stopped reading around post 38 or so, so sorry if this has been asked.

Would these rules absolutely require a 100% fully fleshed out story, or does #2 allow for half-baked ideas? Like, are we asking for something like publishing company rules for a full manuscript, or is this a more loose requirement that's open to "So I've got (setting/germs of plot/a few character ideas) and would like to bounce ideas off of each other" kinda thing?

Edit: Basically, are we going to be allowed to pitch concepts as long as we explain what the concept is?

[Rhonder]

I believe that's the case, yes. Unless my interpretation is horribly off base (I don't think it is).

Project Details / Pitch / Sample speaks to me as being open ended enough to be just a "describe what you're looking for" qualifier. Like where someone may have a full on pitch "I've been working on this story for a while, it's about A, B, & C. I'm looking to collaborate with an artist to draw it!"

other people may just have general "project details" about what they're looking to collaborate on: "Hey I'm an artist looking for a story to write! I like working in action/fantasy genres, although I'm open to trying others." or "I'm a writer looking to collaborate with an artist on a story! I don't have anything written yet because I want to build a story together."

Etc. Like so long as you're upfront about what you're looking for and touch on some of the other points, such as examples of past work, desired project length, paid/unpaid, etc., the collab thread is miles ahead of what most of them end up being around here, and thus the point of this new post skeleton.

[Pandastrophic]

You have no idea how much you improved my forum experience!
I seriously wish I knew I could do this before.

[Luminosophy]

Yeah, just loose guidelines. Since the pitches have been rather rampant spammed style threads that clog up the forum due to inexperience on the poster's part. The guidelines are designed to help posters realize necessary information to make their collaboration seeking efforts more fruitful because they're often coming from new members who post and leave. (So they're probably spamming various related forums, honestly.) They don't typically lurk the forums before hand to have known in advance that it would be received poorly by the community.

[cain3]

Should the form have a second version more suited for artists seeking writer/project?

You bring up a good point. I was hoping the guideline would be broad enough to cover everything from "writer-seeking-artist" to "editor-seeking-project." Even colorists!
I could write up an explanation that the guideline could be used for any request.
Do you think short explanations + examples for each point would be beneficial?

Would these rules absolutely require a 100% fully fleshed out story, or does #2 allow for half-baked ideas?

I'm aiming for everything! I'd like the guidelines to be as fluid and flexible as possible for creators with solid ideas and creators who want to build a story together beginning to end.

[skicoak]

I could write up an explanation that the guideline could be used for any request.Do you think short explanations + examples for each point would be beneficial?

As @Rhonder said, it does have the flexibility to be filled out for other purposes. So that's not really a big problem, it just definitely puts a premium on those pitching a project and less about individuals looking to connect with other creators.

Maybe it's just the sequence of the form, it doesn't feel like the info is in the order of importance to me personally.

But ANYTHING is better than the current system. Thanks for attempting this change.

[GamerPrincessXI]

I think there should be a separate category for paid and unpaid collaborations.