Is anyone else bothered by people forcing others to use this word?

fischhead 2018-09-28 03:58:00 UTC #22

This may be the old man in me talking, but I don't believe we would be having this kind of discussion if parents were more strict when it comes to raising their children. I think we would all be better off if we prioritized teaching and reinforcing simple values like kindness, honesty, and a solid work ethic over inclusion or preferred pronouns.

The internet is also a huge factor in all this. You can't give people the chance to anonymously say whatever they want in front of the entire world and expect things to go without a hitch. People bullying someone for the sake of their own egos is what started this thread in the first place.

ar-ninetysix 2018-09-28 03:58:37 UTC #23

That o ending literally makes it masculine though, and you say it's gender neutral but if that were the case, why does the a ending even exist? Even then, you don't hear people saying Latina nearly as much because Latino became the default "gender-neutral" word. If it was so inclusive, those gender specific endings wouldn't even be there. Wouldn't adding "Latinx" make it even MORE inclusive for others who prefer using another term that fits their gender identity?

Why can't it change though? Far as I understand it, language evolves and adapts over time. Americans don't use that Old English anymore with the "thees" and "thous", I'd think that that was just as much of an issue back then as it is with Latino culture using a word like Latinx. In order to make the language more progressive and more accessible to everyone, I think this word would be the least of your worries as it doesn't change the entire language, but just adds an extra word to the Spanish lexicon.

joannekwan 2018-09-28 03:59:53 UTC #24

I've been aware of 'Latinx' for the past couple of years. I just figured the 'x' is a placeholder for 'o' or 'a', whichever one wants to identify with, like it's quicker to type 'Latinx' than 'Latinos and Latinas'.

I know 'Latino' does encompass all people who identify as such; but it begs the question, whenever it was decided upon, why wasn't 'Latina' the all encompassing noun?

I'm sure this current 'Latinx' situation has a similar correlation with the whole 'mankind' thing, and how some women like to use 'womenkind' and 'herstory' and all that. Some people just want to put emphasis on the other 50% of the globe when the basis of these words were set thousands of years ago by men (at least in the western world).

And languages are always evolving. It's not like there is a standard that is set in stone. New words are invented or reassigned meaning to everyday.

mrtoontastic 2018-09-28 04:10:09 UTC #25

Never heard of this word, but it sounds like some hackjob attempt to neutralize people's own personal natural-born distinctions.

joannekwan 2018-09-28 04:10:15 UTC #26

Well, I don't want to derail the thread but to emphasize kindness … that kind of goes hand in hand with inclusion yeah? Like we want to teach kids not to ridicule the foreign child simply for being different. Or teach kids not to disregard the needs and wants of those less financially fortunate than themselves. That's all a part of inclusion.

So I can understand the push for gender-neutral terminology, it's all psychology really.
But certainly the people who bullied OP shouldn't be lauded for forcing their ideals in aggressive ways.

audratki 2018-09-28 04:11:00 UTC #27

I'd drink to that. It's modern-day slavery. We scream that we've abolished it but we didn't, we've just become blind as a society.

I think this is a yes and no kinda thing. I think the gender and trans stuff got brought in because that is probably the main driver of this change. I've never heard of this Latinx change, but I have heard of the addition of Mx to the Mr and Mrs mix for inclusion to those that don't fit it one.

But again, like I've said, people are gonna do what people are gonna do. Some people will refuse to accept it, some will demand it, and some will not give a rat's behind. That's life, unfortunately.

A-weird-girler 2018-09-28 04:38:13 UTC #28

So you're here to say that just because language can change that we should all? Again, you don't really understand. It's not a masculine ending more than mankind. Does mankind encompass everyone? Yes. No one here thinks it's a masculine ending and plus it's part of our culture. Why would you need to change that just because you're offended it doesn't involve you when in reality it already does? It's a little bit much.
@joannekwan Latina wasn't an encompassing noun because that word was invented after Latino and the word that sticks is obviously the one chosen first. It wasn't until people started using more words and discovering more words that there was a word Latina.
@audratki Yes but you shouldn't force people to sucumb to your rules just because you say that it is the best for everyone.

Kura 2018-09-28 04:38:39 UTC #29

I was more referring to this specific comment and not the language addressed themes (as the language addressed themes make sense in this contex)

Cause yeah... I'm not really wanting to touching that.

audratki 2018-09-28 05:00:08 UTC #30

I also cannot touch that mess, lol...

I was 12 when I made this choice, so...

A-weird-girler 2018-09-28 05:05:49 UTC #31

Yes but I'm betting you didn't really confirm it until later on, no? She also noticed that she liked girls from age 11 because she told me once but didn't decide to really confirm it until later on to be sure. That tone is very condescending for some reason, too.

joannekwan 2018-09-28 05:06:12 UTC #32

Also somewhat relevant but very interesting, English used to be a grammatically gendered language. Old English had feminine, masculine, and neuter categories for nouns, similar to modern German, but these genderings fell out of use in the 1500's. So yeah, language does change and evolve.

And here are a couple articles about gendered languages that I found to be quite intriguing.

ar-ninetysix 2018-09-28 05:07:27 UTC #33

Not really? I'm not saying to change the language entirely or have all the native speakers accept this blindly, it's just adding one word. And maybe that does change it, but I don't see it as a big deal. It shouldn't be so hard to just adjust and say someone is Latinx. It's another option, and there's nothing wrong with that. Again, adding the option of Latinx would only make the language more inclusive. And again, it is masculine. Latino might not have been masculine then, but became so after the creation of the word Latina. Like, why is it necessary to have both then? It's the same with mankind, it just became the default word over time, and you say people aren''t upset over it, but there are. There's a huge push for using the words womankind and humankind away from using mankind exclusively, even rejecting the word mankind altogether. I agree with you in the sense that, no, it's not exactly necessary to add the word.. but is there any other reason why it shouldn't be added? Like put your feelings and thoughts away from what you think about the whole gender identity politics surrounding it, and tell me why it's shouldn't be included

A-weird-girler 2018-09-28 05:12:43 UTC #34

I mean use that if you want to, but don't police the users of the original language to change how they talk because you don't like it.
@ar-ninetysix You seriously didn't read the post then. It's talking about how people are pushing for the whole language to change to the point of being personally offended by it. Read the reply to Joanne. It's not necessary to have both when talking to people as a whole, just one. I'll let you take a guess on which one it is. And I'm not saying it shouldn't be included, read my post, I'm saying stop guarding how people talk because it's not progressive to your agenda and your wants when they already talked like that way before you decided it wasn't acceptable anymore. Why don't you put your feelings of inclusion away too and tell me why we should stop talking like that?

audratki 2018-09-28 05:14:03 UTC #35

No, actually. I confirmed it very young and then as I grew up, I convinced myself that I must conform with society and that I am not actually gay. I deeply regret it and wish I had the balls to just be gay instead of writing it off as a fling like I did.

About the trans bit, you brought up at a young age. As a kid, I very much wished to be male but I never actually voiced that and I'm fine now with the parts I have. But honestly, although I don't wish to leave my assigned gender, I generally don't pick one anymore if possible except for in medical situations so they know which parts I have.

People know these things about themselves at a very young age and I know it's tough to have people want to add words to your language, but at the same time, try being a kid who would give anything to know that word. It's hard to really know what you are when the word for you doesn't even exist.

joannekwan 2018-09-28 05:17:43 UTC #36

Oh I know, I'm not here to do any policing unless it's like against actual slurs. Just stating the case that things aren't always concrete. People can resist, people can forge ahead, but it doesn't give either side the right to bully others (unless yet again it's against actual harmful things).

A-weird-girler 2018-09-28 05:20:29 UTC #37

Dude, do you guys even read my post before replying?? I'm more pissed off by the fact that I can no longer talk my language without being bombarded by hate. And plus, puberty blockers have many, many, many negative side effects that could make a child sick. It's not because I don't want trans people to be happy, it's more for health and well being which is why I believe you should wait until you're older to really know yourself and your sexuality and decide, "Yes, this is how I'm living my life." And yes, you should've looked more deeper into your sexuality at that age since that's how you confirm you want to live your life that way and how you confirm that you are indeed LGBT+ and that's what Alessandra also did before coming out. Once again, I'm not saying that knowing you're gay from a young age is bad, it's taking time off to truly discover yourself and your feelings and come out when you're older. And more secure, just in case the environment turns hostile like it did in my sister's case. All my opinions are based on safety and well being since that's what I was taught from a very early age

audratki 2018-09-28 05:24:46 UTC #38

No one is stopping you from using the words you want to. If someone you meet prefers that you call them LatinX, then pretend it's their name. It's as simple as that.

I don't think it's fair that you don't want people to add a word to your language but you want to ban people of a certain age their right to be who they are.

Hitler was taught that he was a great individual.

ar-ninetysix 2018-09-28 05:31:02 UTC #39

Ok, fair point, I didn't read the entire original post. That's a bad on my end lol so.. it's not so much that you have a problem with the word, you just have a problem with the people pushing people to use the word then?? I skimmed it and I went to the last reply I saw when I made my first reply, and the title of the post doesn't help either, because from what I gather here, you're fine with the word. And if that's the case then.. why bother caring about those people? Use it if you want, don't if you don't. Their intentions are in the right place I'm sure, but it's just being handled poorly. Much like this post.. It just sounded like you're trying to push your own agenda.as well, But nope, just misunderstanding on my part. Sorry about that~

So, to answer your questions.. I'm not against people using Latino or Latina, Same with anyone using Latinx. I'm against people pushing the word for their own ego, as if it makes them better. If people push it to educate others on gender neutrality, I'm a little more forgiving on that end. As long as there's no ulterior motives, it'd be fine by me. I'm also a Latino, but I'm pretty white-washed so, do with that info what you will, I guess

A-weird-girler 2018-09-28 05:41:39 UTC #40

Are you....are you really comparing me to an individual who committed mass genocide because I said that puberty blockers are dangerous for children? I never ever said that I wasn't going to call them latinx, I will, but I just said that people were hating on me for simply using Latino in a comment that was miles away from a gender discussion. AND READ THE DARN POST! Jesus. I didn't say that I didn't want to add a word, I'm saying why prohibit people from using another word??? And as for banning people of a certain age to be who they are, once again, puberty blockers are dangerous to small children under the age of 13. Why would you compromise someone's health like that then blame other people when it goes wrong? Did you even bother to read my reply?? I said delve into your sexuality if you want but wait until it's actually safe to come out! Do you think a minor would be in such a good position if they came out to their parents and they disapproved?? A small child was beaten for even thinking that he was gay and he was killed because of parents like these. Do you really want that to happen?? I'm not banning anyone if you actually took time to READ what I wrote. Dear goodness you think that I'm just some horrible person disvalidating trans kids? No. All I'm saying is W A I T for your H E A L T H. Thank you please don't EVER compare me to a mass genocider ever again

HERE:

DokiDokiTsuna 2018-09-28 05:48:01 UTC #41

We're...not trying to "get rid of gender". Quite the opposite; we're currently making up a whole new vocabulary for identifying and talking about gender. XD The changes are just to keep gender (and sex) out of areas where it shouldn't matter. If you're in law enforcement, should it matter whether you are a man or a woman, or identify as such? No. So why say "policeman" when you can say "police officer"?

In this case, I guess the logic is "when talking about one's ethnicity, should it matter whether you are a man or a woman or identify as such? No. So why say 'Latino' when you can say 'Latinx'?" Not saying that's what I believe; I'm just explaining the logic.

Anyway, I see this topic is going to hell in a handbasket rather quickly. ^^; I could go on explaining about how I think this is little more than a simple linguistics issue, but I think I'll just watch from now on.