18 / 51
Sep 2018

It's OK to make the main character a jerk, although it's important to give said character enough redeeming or potentially redeeming qualities so you don't make the reader feel uncomfortable rooting for said character. If you're giving said character a redemption arc, it can't come out of nowhere. You have to foreshadow that and toss the readers a few crumbs along the way, so that when said redemption is achieved, it's a satisfying one that people have long wanted to see.

If you keep writing main characters that readers want to slap upside the face, or worse yet writing characters with whom readers simply don't wish to spend their time, your story will not gain traction, or perhaps not gain the amount of traction you want. Don't make your story one in which readers have to search desperately for a character to like or a reason to like the main character.

Cutting through the fluff in the post: yes, absolutely! I'd argue you don't even necessarily have to make them particularly likeable/have a redemption/growth arc so long as you understand the consequences that might have on your readers and structure the story accordingly (maybe they start rooting for the heroic antagonist despite not following their P.O.V., for example).

That said it sounds like you're wanting to write about a flawed character who eventually grows. This type of character arc totally works :] A random example off the top of my head, look into the Disgaea game series which uses this kind of trope often (the jerky main char that develops over the course of the story). Disgaea 1 has the most pure form of this, but it's seen in many of the others too.

Ever heard of Dan VS. That's rather entertaining cartoon with a jerk as a main character. And I think it does show a very good example of what to do when writing one. He behavior is so over the top it's just flat out entertaining(trying to get revenge on the the entire country of Canada), when his behavior is unreasonable he ends up in a worst position than when he started, the time he's on top is when his behavior is directed at people who deserves it making it more of a fun tale of revenge. And finally he does show some kindness to other now and then.
I hope that helps you.

Read Ashita no Joe for a story that has a jerk of a character--there is no doubt that Joe is a massive asshole, but his character as a whole is what drives the story forward.

Also, please do not end up like Chris Chan, you're starting to self insert into your work - distance yourself from your comic, and you'll be able to think through the production process with a clear head.

holy. Shiz!! Ashita no Joe reference.. I love Joe..

I watched it with my ex-best friend (a person that for 15 years has made everyone hate me and like him instead. He is the second main character in this series of mine that's about my past online life, although all the people don't like me now and I'm trying to find a character designer because I'm replacing them with original characters that still act pretty much the same) after I watched it myself, and he kept joking saying "a shit no joe" and saying over and over again that he's an asshole.

But I don't get how he could think that Joe is an asshole. He punched and kicked cops in the face! He stands up for what he believes in, even if its breaking the rules. To me he's not really completly an asshole and he care for the orphans and stuff.

I just watched the Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World movie and oh man.. Its just like my situation and my story (but without the seven evil Xs part or a part about a girlfriend.) The second main character in my series, based on my ex-online friend that keeps asking me to add him as a friend again even today but he's abusive to me. Well I'd get into it but it'd take a long time.

Thanks for all the advice!!

I get a bit carried away cuz I KEEP venting on reddit but people respond asking if I'm a troll and there's these haters that constantly downvote my threads and say negative things in them, even after I blocked them.

Maybe the story is kinda about an autistic hamster that most people don't understand (based on me,) well actually it is. Abu's a bit different from the other hamsters. (just like how I was at the Hamtaro message boards in year 2002 to 2004.)

I feel really bad cuz I kept telling my friend about the story arc about when I got jealous and got too involved with her life at a message board in 2006 and everyone was mad at me and I got banned from my own message board (In my series, that's when Abu becomes shadow abu and kills himself, but after a timeskip he gets revived,

and walks in on people partying hard to a nobodyknows+ song about how happy they are that Abu is finally dead and gone forever cuz everyone hates him. Like how people started not liking me anymore at the hamtaro message board I made that I got banned from even though I created it.)

And now her friend doesn't seem to like me anymore, I tried to talk to him on Twitter last month (the one that banned me from the forum in the first place.) Those are two very important characters in my series about my online life at Hamtaro message boards and I hope I can find a character designer to replace them.

Sorry I might've been off topic for some of the post. All day long I want to talk to someone, but there's no one to talk to. I keep venting on reddit lots of times daily, but again the haters attack it and people say they can't understand me. So I try to make my reddit posts sound crazier and I try to troll myself sometimes in them (cuz I feel bad that I made my old online friends feel bad and so I try to punish myself by making myself look bad online so people online can attack me since I deserve to be attacked, also because someone in my family acts like a troll too, and most of all cuz people that it was funny on gamefaqs in year 2006 and I liked making people laugh, although no one seems to like it anymore) but people still ignore my reddit posts.

And now after barely sleeping last night from my mom's very loud breathing machine (they say on reddit I should feel bad for saying that and that she needs it, but I love her and know she needs it. I keep posting videos on YouTube of her breathing machine and mods of support groups keep telling me I'm uploading too much of my life online.) And nows the time of the day where I finally get to type something after not talking to anyone for over a day and wanting to talk, and I guess I ended up maybe writing more than I had to. Its hard for me to know completly whats on topic and not sometimes.

Thanks for all the advice! The Scott Pilgrim Vs. the World movie that I just re-watched today (man that is very much like my life... besides the seven evil Xs part) made me see that yes, stories can have a story where the main character is blah at first but then becomes unblahable later.

Erm
you have a lot of personal info mentioned that doesn't really connect with the topic ;;
To put it simply, yes characters can be jerks. Realistically, jerks are common af. Can't go a year without em in reality so the same goes for fiction (depending on your worldbuilding)
What bugs me is how much you're putting yourself and your friends(?) into this comic. It comes off as a biography, from what I skimmed through. Dunno if that's what you're going for, tho

Thank you for making the forum topic. I do believe that a main character can be a jerk. I think that this concept is unique. It is unique like having the villains win sometimes, not just a battle but an entire season or two.

Yeah the story is basically a biography of the online (and in the Human Saga where the hamsters transform into humans, my offline) life I had and mirrors it and the drama I went through.

jerk protagonists are very interesting to read on (example off the top of my head: Jotaro from JJBA)
readers get invested in them to see if they eventually become a better person, learn their lesson or at least have any redeeming qualities (Jotaro is quite a jerk to his sweet mother but literally traveled the world and put his life on the line for her. values friendship. doesn't stand for injustice...etc. And it shows in his actions, not words.)

that being said...
it's really hard to get invested in or relate to a self-insert no matter how good they are.
it can come off as narcissism, especially to the degree you're describing here.

the character's constant mean actions will eventually get criticized by the readers, and when they're completely based off of yourself, you'll take it personally no matter how thick your skin is. then you'll probably wanna incorporate that situation into your story, and people get more angry with you. things get hairy and messy. and whatever story you had going is ruined.
rinse and repeat.

This may sound like a hypothetical situation, but it actually happened before with not only Chris-Chan
but also another quite notorious furry artist who is still at it, so to speak.

try not to over-indulge in a self-insert. nobody really likes that outside of funny gags.
and keep your personal feelings out of the story to the best of your abilities.

it may also help to summarize your thoughts and ideas before sharing them as well...
otherwise, good luck.

ALRIGHT, LISTEN BOY, PEP TALK, RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW! I HAVE EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE TROLLING ME AND EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD AND ARE TRYING TO PULL US INTO AN INTRICATE RUSE, BUT IN THE CASE THAT YOU ARE BEING GENUINE HERE - LISTEN HERE AND NOW!!

I will agree with everyone and myself here that you're inserting yourself and others in your life to closely into this hamster webcomic project of yours, to which I would say - be wary, stop, don't do it. When you're making a piece of art, such as a webcomic, you are without a doubt creating a product for others to enjoy - thus, if you want to make something that people will actually like, your best course of action is to step back, look at your work with cool detachment, and focus on making something.

HOWEVER, it is extremely clear that at this point that your life is already closely intertwined with this work, to which I say - USE YOUR LIFE AS A DRIVE TO CREATING SOMETHING MEANINGFUL.

You like hamsters, I will assume you watch Japanese cartoons - and I will also assumed you've watched Evangelion, yes?

I know that Neon Genesis Evangelion and its follow up film End of Evangelion are not necessarily biography comics - however, it can be said without a doubt that Hideaki Anno's own personal issues seeped into the body of this work. However, this facet of the work's production is what created depth in the work, and ultimately supported the main message of the necessity of human relationships, even if they are difficult.

If you want to make a story based heavily on your internet life or whatever, sure, go for it, but you have to ensure first and foremost that the final product IS ACTUALLY GOOD~!!!!!11!

There are approximately AS MANY BIOGRAPHY COMICS ON THE INTERNET AS THERE ARE STARS IN THE NIGHT SKY, AND IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE READ, YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING FANTASTIC WITH IT!!!!1!!!

Polish up your art, practice with making one shot chapters, read up on how to write good stories, characterization, but most of all: ACTUALLY SIT YOUR ASS DOWN AND DRAW SOMETHING YOU HACK I SAW YOU IN A THREAD LIKE 2 MONTHS AGO AND YOU HAVEN'T DONE JACK SHIT. JUST DRAW SOMETHING, FUCKING FUCK JUST DRAW AND MAKE SOMETHING GOGOGOGOGOGO GO GO OG OGO GO OGO GO OGOGOGO O FUUUUUUUUCKKCKCKCKCKKKK

(this message was sponsored by god damn I just finished reading Ashita no Joe and man is it good, I feel hyped, I just did 50 push ups and my arms hurt and I'm going to do some more - just draw something you stupid hack!)

Alternatively, if you're not aiming to make any sort of masterpiece and just want to draw some biography comics, at least make them funny and unique in some way. I don't know what it is about this depressed man named Dan Kim4, but his occasional biography comic has at least some semblance of humour. Just draw something what the hell stop tip toeing just DRAW DAMN IT DRAW.


I'm going to directly link the video I mentioned earlier because I think you really ought to watch it.
After your latest replies the parallels are even stronger between you and Chris-chan, the trolling both ways, the online TMI, the self-inserts … I just wanna help you, man.

And to stay on topic, @Freemints30 mentioned Dan Vs. and I really liked Dan's character from the few episodes I watched of it! I think with him, Dan gives a voice to the everyman's daily hang-ups with the world. We'd like to lash out our frustrations like him but can't if we want people to like us/get ahead in life.

I agree with Joanne.

The way you describe this story is constantly "So my character is a little weird (just like me when I was hanging out with this group in 2002) and meets this other character (who is like my friend that I used to hang out with but that friend doesn't really talk to me anymore)" -- I think it would be good to try to stop doing those asides!

You can just say "My character is lonely and a little weird, and then he meets this other character" without explaining your life. It's very important for people to be able to understand the story without knowing anything about your life at all!

A lot of times I have issues with typing up too much and going on tangents, so I re-read them before I post them, and delete a lot of it. You can type up a whole bunch, then re-read what you've typed and look for anything that's an explanation of your life, and delete those parts. It takes practice! But I think it's worth learning to do!
If you're talking about your comic, then it makes sense to share feedback on your comic that you got from others. (example "The people on reddit said it didn't make sense") but things people said about other parts of your life (example: "people on the reddit said I should feel bad for complaining about my mom" or "my friend stopped talking to me because of what happened on these message boards" etc) is oversharing, and you can delete those parts before you post. You can't share that kinda stuff with strangers constantly -- and the folks in places like reddit and these forums are strangers to you.

Please do make your comics!! Sometimes just making art is a great outlet, even if there are people out there who don't care for it. But even though it's very tempting to explain, I don't think you should explain how every part of the story is like your life.

Glad you enjoy it. Over all I think jerk characters are rather interesting, if done well we have a character we can essentially relate when we are at our most frustrated. We all have our little jerk moments.

MMMMMM oh GoOdNEsss I have a wholllleeee story on why that's horrible.
Ok, so like you may know (hopefully not) Valentina started out as an mlp fan character. Now, I have no problem admitting what she was and what I did because I was severely mentally unstable at the time and had stopped taking my meds for over a year. So, anyways, she used to have my name and it would reeeeaaalllyyy blur the line between me and her to the point where I started acting like her, (well her version of back then when she was a 2d mary sue with no real character) It got so bad that I used her pronouns and mine as "me" and "I".

I don't know if it was my meds or my advanced mental deterioration but it was very bad. It is very unhealthy because over time you start to think you are that person, that you are that character living in that small perfect world of yours and not only does it affect your work it affects you as a person. It wasn't until the point that I stopped doing that, got mental help (because I learnt that this was dissociation and a big problem) and tried to live a normal life.

So, Tl;dr, don't ever call your character yourself and vice-versa and don't use "me" or "I" pronouns in referring to your character because even though you may not notice it it will affect you and you will act like that. Also, if you do, it's a red flag.

(Also I decided to rewrite this character as Valentina because she deserved a second chance tbh it had good potential)

Hey! Don't think I'm hating on you Hamsterdude, I will just keep my comment simple. PLEASE KEEP THE CONTENT SAFE FOR ALL AUDIENCES. In other posts you have described very grotesque and inappropriate stories. So...if you are making a jerk character don't take things too far and listen if your audience tells you that you are being inappropriate because you seem to have trouble with boundaries. That is not hate, people want to help you. Good luck, I wish you are feeling better.

I kinda of disagree with keep it safe for all audiences. He should be aware of what audience he is trying to appeal to. If he is trying to appeal to people who like dark fiction disturbing content is a given (as long as it follows community guide lines). If its for people looking for a shonen action romp, content has to be turned down. He should figure out who his comic is trying to appeal to before he writes.

That's just my 2 cents.

Isn't he trying to make a comic about hamsters though? That might be easy for children to stumble upon who can't really judge such works well enough yet.

OH MY GOSH another Ashita no Joe reference!! I love this place!!!

I stopped drawing because two people on a Discord chat made fun of my hamster drawings.

I posted about it here, and some person said "There's two types of people in the world: Those with talent and those without it. And hamster dude, I certainly, without a doubt, can clearly see that you're the type of person with no talent."

I do imagine lots of cool stuff in my head though. I'd be a great choreographer or director or something. I'm more motivated to draw, too!

The more this goes on the more I wonder if this isn't just a huge troll trying to hype up your comic/novel at this point.

Each reply is more out there than the last.