JK Rowling Cancellation

KRWright 2020-09-18 20:57:42 UTC #126

Non-binary, agender, third gender, two spirit and other genders still exist. Some people also do wish to still acknowledge their transition as well. Some trans people do not use trans to describe themselves post-transition, but some do. It's really down to each individual. The term still gets used though because there are some issues in healthcare, the justice system, social work, etc. that still will only affect transgender people and won't affect cisgender people. So we need a way to talk about those issues without confusion, thus the distinction is still made even for binary trans people sometimes.

domisotto 2020-09-18 20:59:04 UTC #127

Something like that would be great. Just to break the stereotype that if a woman presents or becomes a man she is filling a hero’s shoes, but the reverse is a misfortune.

HGohwell 2020-09-18 21:00:47 UTC #128

In my experience (I'm not an authority, this is just my experience) transman and transwoman are generally used when discussing LGBT+ topics or instances where it's relevant, like talking to a doctor, it can help them to know. Day to day, I think you would just call them a man or a woman, that's certainly the case with transpeople I've known. It's like how generally, one doesn't describe oneself as a cisman/woman or a gay man/woman ect unless the conversation is around a topic that requires that information, like this one.

indagold 2020-09-18 22:06:33 UTC #129

you're acting like she's a supervillain when she's not. She's just a person who made unsavory takes on twitter. I think this is the main problem with cancel culture, we idolize someone to the point we either make them a monster or a saint in our eyes.

DiegoPalacios 2020-09-18 22:12:12 UTC #130

I heard some people using this argument, and their concern is not about transgenders specifically. Is about how this law can be exploited:

Gender, as a personal issue, can not be measured or proved. That means it is easy to fake it for your own benefit. This includes cis-male perverts and rapists faking being trans-female to get access to women`s bathrooms among other things.

The argument is not transphobic per-se, but without a clear way to prevent the situations they are concerned about, it just seems like a reckless reform from the outside eye that may risk their own wellbeing.

Dane_Sherbet 2020-09-18 22:13:27 UTC #131

No saint ever had 14.3 million Twitter followers.

indagold 2020-09-18 22:14:48 UTC #132

I think you missed my point.

TAMAnnoying 2020-09-18 22:18:08 UTC #133

Im actually incredibly upset with this thread right now.

First off JK dose not have a concentration camp in her back yard for trans people, acting as if this is the same thing by quoting a holocausts survivor is incredibly insensitive to people who had family's relating to that event.

Second I feel like theres a lot of erasure happening right now with crossdressers. Not all crossdressers are trans or even identify as trans (hi hello).

Acting like consumers who are not on twitter, or do not have time for this because they're busy trying to stop actual problems in their life like Nesquik trying to tax them for their own water and calling them transphobic cause they like crime dramas is insane.

HGohwell 2020-09-18 22:19:16 UTC #134

Here's the major issue with this argument though: there's nothing stopping men doing that anyway. I haven't been to many bathrooms that are guarded by security checking ID to see if you're going into the right one. If I man wants to attack a woman in a woman's bathroom or locker room, he will, fake trans or not. And they do. If a rapist wants to rape someone, they're going to do it. Banning transpeople from women's spaces won't stop that. (Also this is talking like transpeople aren't already allowed in gender specific spaces, which they are. They are already using women's bathrooms and locker rooms and have been for years).

Dane_Sherbet 2020-09-18 22:27:11 UTC #135

No, I totally get you. I'm saying that it's an absurd amount of influence. 14.3 million people care enough about what she says to subscribe to her Twitter feed. 14.3 million people want to know her opinions on things. And this isn't counting the people who perk up when they hear her name in the news and so on.

14.3 million followers. Advertisers would pay something in the neighborhood of fifty thousand dollars for a single sponsored tweet from her. Someone with that kind of power, you want them to conduct themselves like a saint.

Also @DiegoPalacios that's a ridiculous thing to worry about. So the only thing keeping hordes of rapists out of women's bathrooms and changing rooms is . . . the fact that they don't have legal access to them?

Why haven't we heard about a massive increase in the number of rapes happening in unisex bathrooms?

HGohwell 2020-09-18 22:35:49 UTC #136

This really is one of those "but it sounds so reasonable" concerns. Because, it's already legal. I don't know about in other countries, but the UK it is legal. People talk like it's something that's coming in and will be made law soon and "men will be allowed in women's bathrooms" but it's already legal. Nothing is changing, there's no new law, it's literally like people complaining the sky might be turning blue soon. Being in the wrong gender bathroom is not illegal. Against the rules of the establishment, maybe. Might get you thrown out, maybe. I've accidentally walked into the wrong bathroom loads of times when I'm not paying attention, never been arrested.

But what is illegal is rape and assault. So, I really don't think legality is an issue to these people.

(I will give maybe, just a tiny maybe to things like women's abuse shelters but since they should be monitored at all times that should nullify any risk there as well. And that's assuming these men faking being trans are willing to risk the violence transpeople suffer so often.)

liamhernandezlucas 2020-09-18 22:37:02 UTC #137

If they don't outright assault anyone and are just being a creep, people can use the fake trans argument to get away with it. Potentially. I don't think a lot of people would buy in to it, but there are conpeople who make conning into a lifestyle, so it's not entirely unthinkable a malicious person could sneak into the wrong room to ogle people, get caught and then launch a twitter flame war ruining the life of their victim by saying it's transphobic not to allow them in. Theoretically. I don't think it's likely, but there are enough people in the world that unlikely is still worrisome.
(Heck, I'd advocate for separate locker rooms for everyone individually just because being naked is really uncomfortable and many people don't want to be seen by anyone.)

There was a controversy about a person saying she was a trans woman, but who still had the male physical parts, wanting to get their privates waxed by people who were not comfortable with waxing male parts. When they refused to do it, the person launched a social media rampage that was a mess for everyone involved. I'd link an article, but I can't remember any specifics. I think it was in Canada? I'll see if I can find it.

When it came down to it, that person just made things harder for trans people who do want to respect people's boundaries and acknowledge people aren't comfortable with touching all types of private parts.

So it is important to at least keep talking about these worries, as unfounded as they may seem, because something can always slip through the cracks of what we believe to be a perfect solution.
(I wouldn't say JK is handling it well though)

DiegoPalacios 2020-09-18 22:40:00 UTC #138

More like a 20 word explanation XD, but i already accepted the fact that there is not gonna be a short answer, which explains why people keep debating if JK is transphobe or not.

@HGohwell already adressed that point, which makes sense. I was just explaining people's biggest concern.

Personally, based on the first tweets i saw from media portraying the accusations, i dont think she is a transphobe.

Just because people disagree on how to deal with some trans-gender issues, that doesnt mean they are neccesarily transphobic. The truth is that not every supporter needs to agree on every single point. People may agree on a problem, but they can disagree with the solutions.

People have mentioned her recent book as transphobic content, but to properly judge, i should research more on that issue.

Dane_Sherbet 2020-09-18 22:41:45 UTC #139

You're saying we should make life harder for an entire class of people just because a tiny group of (hypothetical) people might possibly abuse the situation as it stands.

This isn't a trans issue, this is a perverts-sneaking-into-places issue. I have no objection to banning that specific thing.

HGohwell 2020-09-18 22:43:10 UTC #140

Maybe I'm not in the right sorta bathrooms but creep in what way? (Genuine question) Women's bathroom's have stalls and no where public should be able to see you doing anything but washing your hands and maybe retouching your makeup? The only other thing would be looking over or under the stalls, which is illegal too. So, I'm a little confused there.

I am starting to think I've been to very private places now. There are locker rooms that don't have stalls for you to change in? I mean, the locker room showers, yeah they're awful but literally no one I've met is actually naked in them (swimsuits or towels). I'm concerned for the state of the world. Or have I just been very lucky?

liamhernandezlucas 2020-09-18 22:45:57 UTC #141

I'm not supporting any specific course of action? I'm just saying these concerns are legitimately worth addressing, As in making sure that perverts-sneaking-into-places shouldn't be able to use the rights of trans people as a weapon, damaging the hard work of trans people's slowly improving reputation in the process.

indagold 2020-09-18 22:47:09 UTC #142

People keep misappropriating Elie Wiesel's namesake in order to win internet arguments. As a jew I can safely say can we not. He's rolling enough in his grave as it is.

liamhernandezlucas 2020-09-18 22:48:35 UTC #143

You have been lucky. Many, many schools in the Western world find it okay to force children to undress in the same room before swimming class. Completely naked. I always wanted to disappear when that happened. Same goes for sports teams.

I don't think it's okay for people to be required to undress for any reason other than a medical checkup. But you could see why someone who isn't deep into the trans community, or just has trust issues or bad experiences, would worry that people would abuse people's trust to get into these rooms with their parts out. JK does have bad experiences, and I can see why she would be scared, right or not.

Sorry, I think I got lost in the conversation at some point. I was thinking about locker rooms throughout

ratique 2020-09-18 22:49:26 UTC #144

ratique 2020-09-18 22:50:46 UTC #145

Hola!

with comments going off-topic, it seems as though the original discussion is completed. Thank you all for your insightful, respectful discussions - I hope it has been helpful to you!

Thank you!