Just A Cartoon: Reasonable or Insulting?

[JRHoch]

Whether something is meant to be art or entertainment or both, flaws are flaws, and the "it's just a..." doesn't change that reality.

More often, though, I hear this about material that is controversial and the creators use "it's just a..." as a way of demanding their artistic freedom. This I get.

[Kura]

I think it defiantly depends on the situation. I haven't run into creators telling me this, but as a creator I did run into a situation where I had to tell readers this.

The only time I have used this is when a group of gun enthusiasts started harassing me about how they couldn't tell the exact models of handguns I was using for my characters and that it was 'problematic' When I explained that I'm not actually trying to draw any specific models, I'm just going with the general shape / silhouette of the type (like you can at least tell that they are a handgun / revolver or a sniper for example) for artistic reasons (and sanity because I'll have to draw those things hundreds of times in a comic, if they get too details it's gonna drive me nuts) they got extremely pissed off at me and REALLY tried to push and harass me into drawing exact models of hand guns because it's insulting and problematic and disrespectful to gun enthusiasts who want to be able to tell exactly the make and model of the guns their fav characters are using.

So I gave them my reasoning and they would shoot it down, saying they're 'just excuses and not good enough reasons' (artistic rendition / I need to draw these thing repetitively and I just can't / It would take to long to do that kind of detail and don't get paid enough for that as at the time I got paid for release speed, not detail / it'll look REALLY out of place in the art-style to name a few) so in the end I told them something along the lines of "It's just a comic." as well as "How come you're questioning me on how unrealistic it is for me to not draw the guns as exact realistic models but you're not questioning me on how unrealistic it is for everyone to be an animal person? (it was an anthro comic)"

It wasn't meant as a insult, but more of a 'what you're requesting is unreasonable' especially when I got paid as little as I do to make this comic. My situation / contract / health / creation and design process just wouldn't work for it, but any other reason I brought up was fought with with reasons that just didn't overwrite those problems despite them thinking that it did. So in the end that's all I felt that I could say about it.

Honestly, the person I hear this phrase from the most is myself, because I have a bad habit of overworking myself to the point where it physically damages me, so I need to reminds myself that 'it's just a comic.' to remind myself that my work is not more important than my health.

[Cavechan]

This exact same thing happened to another comic I read. >_>.... And the reason why I left a note on one of my pages where a high school girl is pretending to hold a gun that she has zero gun experience (in case anyone was like "she isn't holding it right!!1").

I am afraid for when there actually are guns in my comic... and especially when a character is single-handedly holding/using a two-handed gun.

[HGohwell]

I'm so sorry to hear you got harassed like that. That is definitely the right time to go with it's just a comic. As I mentioned in one of my replies above, there's a huge difference between saying it to brush off a simple question about basic writing stuff (ie giant plot holes, why the character didn't do the logical or at least not stunning dumb, thing, why did this happen and never get addressed again?) and harassing creators ridiculous nitpicking (like what type of gun or what crops grow where). If you can tell its a handgun does it really matter what specific model or make it is? Probably not. Will it affect the plot unless you're doing CSI and you need to do ballistic matches or something? No. Maybe it's a fictional type for your fictional world. It's totally understandable that you'd react like that and some people really need to learn to stop harassing creators over minor things like that.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I think the "It's just a CARTOOOOOOOOOOOOOON" cop-out (as I know it from RWBY~) is one of those "when people show you who they are, believe them" things.

Like, it's probably less of a direct insult to the consumer who actually values this "cartoon" and more of an easy way for any member of the production crew to unintentionally declare "No matter what I say next or what I've said in the past, I'm not actually taking this seriously. I may expect YOU to, but I will not."

I mean, they could easily say "good question; I never thought about that" or simply "I don't know." But instead they choose to imply that the question itself isn't even worth asking...clearly that says something about their mindset, especially if they claim to be trying to create a deep, provocative show.

[im_not_pixie]

The phrase "Just an x/y/z" works proportionally depending on how seriously you take the contents of the work in question. For example, anybody who would grill Spongebob Squarepants for sometimes having fire underwater probably needs to be reminded it's just a cartoon (or should just stop watching cartoons I dunno).

If you act like what you're making is high art or important or something, though, you can't dismiss criticisms like that, or you're really just pretending you're a big deal. Maybe the people behind Steven Universe and Voltron need to be told what they're making is just a cartoon (again, I don't know, I stayed away from these shows in no small part because of all that buzz).

[im_not_pixie]

Like, it's probably less of a direct insult to the consumer who actually values this "cartoon" and more of an easy way for any member of the production crew to unintentionally declare "No matter what I say next or what I've said in the past, I'm not actually taking this seriously. I may expect YOU to, but I will not."

This is a great take that just popped up while I was writing my last post. Suggests a cynical side of the production. Like I said, are they just pretending they're making something important? Why?

[Freemints30]

when my first kitty passed away that he was "Just a cat"

What the actual fuck. that's pretty shitty to say that to a kid or to anyone in general.

[HGohwell]

Like I said, are they just pretending they're making something important? Why?

This is something that actually does puzzle me. Like, I want t give these shows credit, I generally try to give shows leeway and say perhaps they did think they were making a show with deep themes and messages. They wouldn't be the first creators to start out with a grand plan and just fail at execution. And a lot of the time the creators are the ones who seem more deeply connected to the show. It's their baby, they're invested, rather than a cheap cynical churned out formulaic thing. Passion projects. So I want to believe these guys really did start out with the best intentions to tell the best story possible, but when they then just go "it's just a cartoon" in such a derogatory way it makes it very hard to believe they actually care about their show and a lot of my good will dries up. I still watch and enjoy the shows but at surface level rather than expecting anything that will actually have an impact. It makes me feel like they're just pretending just for marketing, and that makes me a lot less forgiving.

(I bring up Symphogear a lot, because I love it, but when a writer is writing in hospital, and people are crying and getting emotional during interviews and apologizing for writing mistakes, I'll forgive a lot more because they care, rather than if they just brushed if off and sneered at people for taking their product seriously.)

[HGohwell]

"No matter what I say next or what I've said in the past, I'm not actually taking this seriously. I may expect YOU to, but I will not."

On this specific thing with RWBY, I seem to remember a panel (I think it was a while ago) where they said something a long the lines of "canon is canon until we say it's not", basically saying that continuity doesn't matter what has been said they'll change it on a whim. Which is fine if they weren't seemingly going for some ALTA-style epic and presenting it like the world building and continuity matters.

[im_not_pixie]

And a lot of the time the creators are the ones who seem more deeply connected to the show. It's their baby, they're invested, rather than a cheap cynical churned out formulaic thing. Passion projects. So I want to believe these guys really did start out with the best intentions to tell the best story possible, but when they then just go "it's just a cartoon" in such a derogatory way it makes it very hard to believe they actually care about their show and a lot of my good will dries up.

Frankly, if it's a passion project, I think that you should say it up front. It's a much better excuse than "relax, it's a cartoon," to call it like it is and admit you poured your heart specifically into the parts you cared about.

[Kura]

In that case I have to wonder if it's still a passion project for them?

Maybe they're tired of working on it, but they can't stop because of the fans. I'm not saying they're trying to sabotage their own work but it would get frustrating if you've fallen out of love with something you've been creating for years but don't want to stop because of your fans, just to have your 'biggest fans' complain about it, regardless of if these complaints are valid criticism and concerns or not.

Not saying it's a justifiable or right response but I really do feel like most of the time responses like that come from frustration and not malice. Most of the time anyway, some creators just really do look down on their audience, I see it happen a lot with BL authors and how they talk down to fujoshi even though they are the biggest fans of their work. They create these stories specifically for that audience but also hate that audience (not to be confused with LGBT authors who's stories are getting flooded with fujoshi who are treating them with disrespect in the comments section)

[joannekwan]

I would always take what large production works say with a grain of salt. I'm sure there are lots of executives and investors and so forth hovering over them. Who knows? Maybe the show-runners did want to expand on some stuff but were reigned in by upper-management and put on a leash. And of course they can't express that publicly because it would be a bad look for the execs. ¯l_(ツ)_/¯

I def agree with Kura though that sometimes it comes out of frustration. Fans can be exhausting (not from my own personal experience, but from what I've seen and heard).

[indagold]

I think it's mostly directed at crazy fans which can be translated as: It's not real, calm down bro.
Also i'm sorry but there are some fandoms for children's tv shows that its obvious its a show for kids and not adults and it does wig out the creators when a 30 year old man is having some hot takes on ponies. I know people say these shows are for all ages, but for real its a cartoon show very geared towards kids half the time that get the weirdest adult fanbase.

[HGohwell]

I thought I'd made it clear in my original post, but if not I apologize, but I have also said it several times since throughout the thread; this is specifically about reasonable questions (such as "how did this kidnapped character turn up here, what happened to the people who had him captive? What happened to that entire conflict off screen?") from series creators who are actively marketing themselves as mature series to be taken seriously (who want to deal with issues like trauma, death, discrimination, LGBT ect and want us to believe they're just like any other show just animated, so even going as far as to say they're attempting to tell stories comparative to Game of Thrones in scale and impact, just animated) and want to fill the gap between children's cartoons and "adult" cartoons that focus solely on crude humour. We're specifically talking about shows that claim they want to be taken as seriously except when you have a perfectly reasonable question.

[CodeMonkeyArts]

Insulting.

It really ticks me off for people to dismiss a medium really like as 'just a cartoon'. Really? Something that takes so much time to create is 'JUST A CARTOON'?

Rude.

Doesn't help that my artwork has been dismissed as "Just cartoon, not 'real' art", so maybe I'm just sensitive

[indagold]

My point still stands. There’s fans that get hyper obsessed with media geared towards small children that is serious but for a younger audience and expect it to be more deep and thought provoking than it is. I’ve known people legit cry over not having their gay or disabled headcanon not canon and have sent angry messages to directors and writers about it usually with the response “its a cartoon, calm down”

[HGohwell]

Your point doesn't stand at all since it's not what the topic is about. Yes those things happen, but they are not what the topic is about as I have said several times for clarity. I'm not sure how you think "they're not the target audience" is an argument when I'm specifically talking about cartoons in which they are the target audience. Or how "sending angry messages" is an argument when I'm specifically talking about perfectly reasonable calm questions at panels and Q&As. You're talking about a point I'm not making and have gone out of my way over and over to say I'm not making. Of course harassing creators is wrong, I've said that several times in this thread. Of course there are shows that are not marketing themselves like they're some GOT of Tolkien level story that aren't need to be held to that standard, but as I have also said several times, they are not the ones I'm talking about.

So let me be clear once more: I'm only talking about shows that market themselves as grand epics and are aiming for an older, more mature audience, with older more mature themes and wish to be like any other show a young adult to adult demographic watch, simply animated and then brush off any simple question about basic plot/character/world building asked to the appropriate member of staff at an appropriate place like a panel at a con or internet Q&A and are met with sneers and laughter because "it's just a cartoon".

As I said above, imagine if a serious, epic comic brought back a kidnapped character a resolved that plot line off screen and when a commenter politely asked "hey what happened there?" and was met with hostility and mockery and "it's just a comic why are you taking it seriously?".

[Kura]

I think the most frustrating thing about this.

Is that looking into it, it shows up a lot more in media that is considered 'child themed' in the USA. Like, video games and and animation.

So on that account, it'll feels like it's a way of belittling someone for liking a medium that is 'socially recognized as for children, even though the show or game they are working on is clearly not for children' witch is pretty unfair especially when dealing with mature themes.

But then also, some of the shows you mentioned are actually children's shows so that scenario doesn't apply. Like Steven Universe and Voltron (children 7+). Which is likely why you're getting the responses about adults getting into children shows and expecting far too much from something aimed at children. Your examples are suggesting such.

Regardless, plot holes are always going to be bad. Even children can spot plot holes and will speak up about them (ever have to explain a plot hole in a movie to a kid, because the kid thinks you know everything. It's not fun and honestly happens a lot more often than it should and probably pretty common as the first example of kids to hear the 'it's just a cartoon' phrase) so 'it's just a cartoon' in regards to plot holes is a poor excuse for animation aimed at any age group.

[joannekwan]

But then also, some of the shows you mentioned are actually children's shows so that scenario doesn't apply. Like Steven Universe and Voltron (children 7+). Which is likely why you're getting the responses about adults getting into children shows and expecting far too much from something aimed at children. Your examples are suggesting such.

Yeah I think the replies would be way different if the example was say the creators of BoJack Horseman, a cartoon made specifically for adults and pointedly deals with mature themes, expressed the same 'it's just a cartoon' response to fans.