Naver Webtoon Blocked / Flagged me

sourlemon0101 2016-12-09 17:48:19 UTC #21

Yeah it is out of the topic. lol
But if you want talk about compassion.... lets just be honest here and put all that compassion talk aside, how many people truly do this for free if they do not getting paid for it?
If it's not about the money, why having a Patreon?
Then again, these is not the reason why I'm making this post.

jkloboy 2016-12-09 17:51:14 UTC #22

were these comics reshared on platforms such as mangafox or mangahere?

kkitty 2016-12-09 17:53:51 UTC #23

Well if they're literally breaking the rules by posting exclusive content outside of Webtoons the best you can do is report them with a link to the place they're posting it on. Though I guess you can't really e-mail them anymore.

If Webtoons doesn't care then they're the ones losing money and that's that. I get it sucks to see that happening even when it doesn't directly affect you but sometimes there's nothing you can do.

69Michi 2016-12-09 17:56:34 UTC #24

That isn't exactly compassion talk, I was being serious. I HONESTLY work on my comic as a hobby and never expect as many people investing their time into my creation as I currently have. I do this for free, money however is a nice bonus that I can get around. Even if I'm not making any money off of my comic right now, I would still be doing it. But earning money from making comic give me a legit reason to be more responsible and serious, and with that pushing out content faster on a regular schedule.

That is why I have Patreon in the first place. People can support me, that is entirely up to them, I'm not forcing anyone to put in a little tip for what I'm doing knowing I'm just doing this comic to satisfy my own need for storytelling and earning a good reaction from the readers.

I didn't start doing comic thinking I would be making money from it. I could stay on DA taking commission and making adoptable and I would make even more money than I can doing my comic.

But yeah, LINE's problem isn't worth beating yourself up over it.

sourlemon0101 2016-12-09 18:02:30 UTC #25

When I see a featured artist do this, the only thing I'm going to do is to write an email and report it to Webtoon.
But I do not see why I should be flagged and block for reporting about something and this is the least that I can do.
I feel that this whole issue very poorly handled.

UzukiCheverie 2016-12-09 18:05:01 UTC #26

If that's truly the root of the issue, then again, it sucks and was poorly handled, but we aren't LINE so there's really nothing we can do about it here :/ Just gotta hope they reply and if they don't, they've made their decision and you'll just have to move on.

sourlemon0101 2016-12-10 03:32:47 UTC #27

This isn't something that happened in a day or two.
It's has been accumulated. It's something which happened simply because everyone like you and I have been overlooking on it in the past and we've decided to just - let's leave it to Line to work it out.
I too, shamefully admit that I have been ignoring what happened for the longest time and I choose to be ignorant about what happened.
But then again, we all have the responsibility to report what's happening so such issue would not have grown.
And if the issue continue to exist today, we too have no one but ourselves to blame.
Some of you may feel that this isn't that of a big deal, sure it happened but it doesn't effect me so I don't see this as part of my problem.

Like I've said, this doesn't effect everybody which is why when I started this post, I mentioned I knew it's going to be a subjective topic.
But it effects others in different ways and by choosing to ignore the issue and leave it up for Line does not fix the problem at all.
You're just as bad as to allowing the issue to continue to exist.
So you're telling me that if Line doesn't do anything about it and I shouldn't? Please.

As long as such practice exist, it will not solve any issues even if I've decided stopped supporting those artist or Line.
And will this problem will continue to exist and grow? Yes.
It won't be happening to me because I won't be there anymore, it will be towards someone else and then the list goes on.
And does it have to start happening to you THEN you start doing something about it?
I don't need to work for Line in order to warn others about a existing issue. This should be brought up ages ago.
If you're supporting those artist's action, please don't be here. It's negative enough.
I am not here to seek help or advise, neither I'm here to start any fight.
I am only here to share my experience.

Esp to those of you who've telling me to let it go, have you done anything about this? No?
Then don't sound so patriotic.

By starting this thread, I already knew this topic is going to be subjective.

Does Line does anything about it? Yes and no, unless you make a report.

In concluded, I personally feels how Line handles the issue is poorly done and unjust.
I will continue to write in to Line to express about the flagging issue and if they can remove that.
Also towards those artists who have been openly breaching the rules, it's a dirty move.
They've lost my respect, I will not continue to support them.

UzukiCheverie 2016-12-10 04:15:55 UTC #28

Okay, but I repeat my previous question - what actually is the issue here? You keep talking about "stopping this issue" but you're the only one I've ever seen this be an issue for aside from the two parties where it matters - the artist causing this so-called "issue", and the website that has them on contract.

What "issue"? We have no idea what this issue is, why it's such a big deal and why it should be concerning us. We get it, an artist on LINE is breaking their contract by posting in other places, but you have NO IDEA what the conditions of their contract is. Maybe LINE has given them permission to do it for advertising? But that's not an issue for us artists here on Tapastic nor should it be such an issue for you.

"Yes and no" is such a vague answer here. They're either doing something about it or they're not. If they do, great, problem solved. If not, again, I reiterate, there is nothing we can do about it here and there is really no reason for anyone to care about it this much unless they're directly involved. Maybe an issue for the artist's community, maybe an issue for the website that may be losing money, but for you specifically, other than what seems like a personal issue with the artist themselves, are you losing anything this way that isn't at a fault of your own?

"Yes and no" is not an answer on its own unless you dive into it more. And you've been incredibly vague this entire time.

It's not even subjective, you just seem to have personal beef with the website/person in question.

How am I allowing this issue to continue to exist? How is anyone in here allowing this issue to exist? We didn't even know this so-called "issue" existed until you made a thread about it, and even then we're failing to see why it's an "issue".

This is not a problem for you or anyone else. This is a problem for LINE. You can amount it up to a "community issue" all you like, but when no one else is up in arms about it, it's less of a community issue and more of a sole issue for the people who are causing it - in which case, you need to let it be sorted out on its own.

Yes.

It's honorable to think "one person can make a difference" but that doesn't apply when you're actively sticking your nose in business that doesn't concern you. From the vague information you've given us so far, it sounds like you have no connection to this "issue", and therefore no reason to try and be the hero.

Just because someone else isn't doing anything about a certain "issue" doesn't mean it's an invitation for you to, especially when your only problem with this so-called "issue" seems to be personal beef regarding your work in relation to someone else's.

Great, you've made your decision. No one's making you support these artists, and if you don't agree with what they're doing, it's reasonable that you wouldn't want to. If anyone else follows suit, great, karmic justice, but trying to actively get this artist in trouble is basically witch-hunting and it's just gonna make yourself look worse. So stop supporting them, and leave them alone.

Mharz 2016-12-10 04:31:19 UTC #29

I want to throw in my 2 cents here.

So I think the thread was about how LINE is not doing anything about those creators who break their rules and you getting frustrated that they flagged your email but as I read through the thread it started to imply that you are frustrated because these big time creators are trying to hog the views and support that you're supposed to be getting? Sorry I didn't mean to offend but that's what I understood.

Ok, first off... There shouldn't be a competition. Our creations are not consumer products where people set preferences. Even if they read those big name creator's comic that doesn't mean that those readers will not read yours. We all read/watch whatever we want and that is something as content creators could never control.

Second, every company and brand has their flaws. Even Tap has it (no offense). Of course, LINE will have some issues too and I agree to the previous posts that it's their problem because they can do background checks on their featured creators even if nobody give them the heads up but they're not doing it and that's their choice. It's their problem and their loss.

Third, money is limited so people can't support every creator they like even if they wanted to. So they just choose the people who they want to support. That doesn't mean they're hogging away from other artist. It's not like they're blatantly telling people not to read your comic. They're just merely focusing in gaining more supporters like we all do as creators and it's not harming you in any way.

So I don't know. I hate to say this but I think you're just wasting your energy on this topic. I know you're trying to be some kind of a justice warrior here but instead of stressing out into this. Maybe you should just focus in creating and improving your content. But you know, that's just me. : )

Pandastrophic 2016-12-10 04:43:22 UTC #30

I agree with most people here about this being an issue for Line and not for you.
I would also like to add that you as an outsider to the situation don't exactly know how Line works with their contracts and their featured artists, I doubt every single contract is the same. I personally haven't seen people reposting their works on other places unless it's been stollen and put on manga and manhwa websites or it's a similar comic but with different pages/content on webtoon and other websites.
To be honest, even if these people are posting on other places maybe they have their own situations and they're trying to deal with them, and it's up to Line to work it out with them and not you.

I would personally feel bad if I called out someone to Line and it cost that person their job even if they are breaking the rules.

shazzbaa 2016-12-10 04:44:25 UTC #31

It's not... happening to anyone, is the thing! Nobody on here is saying "This isn't happening to me so it's not my problem," it's people saying "none of us have any right to jump into this because it's not our business -- it doesn't affect anyone but LINE."

I'm gonna make a comparison. Let's say a bunch of Cyndi's art got stolen, reposted all over tumblr without credit, people are selling it and making money, whatever, just really blatant and shameless. That's a bad thing to do, and it's unfair to Cyndi. I'd be right to be upset if I saw that! But if I send Cyndi an email saying "someone is stealing your art, here's the link!!" and she basically says "okay, thanks, but I don't really care," then that's the end of it, because Cyndi is the one being cheated in that scenario. If I become angry that she's not doing anything about it, then that anger is misplaced, and I'm stressing for no reason!
Getting angry, in that scenario, that Cyndi is not properly punishing the people who stole from her, would be pushy and not my job! If I want to stand up for her, that's cool, but if I'm just angry that she's not acting, and I'm trying to goad her into doing something about it, then I wouldn't be doing the right thing anymore.

And that hypothetical scenario is kinda how I feel about this!

LINE are the ones who are being cheated. No other artists are being harassed, stolen from, harmed in any way -- just LINE is being cheated. And you told LINE, "hey, heads up, you're being cheated!!" and they seemed not to care. That's the end of it! Nobody has a duty to pester them into caring about the fact that they're being cheated.

PotooGryphon 2016-12-10 05:18:55 UTC #32

Hm, perhaps I can learn how to make money off my artwork from these art thief. :drum taps:

Jokes aside, I do think that's an accurate way to put it, Shazzbaa.

sourlemon0101 2016-12-10 07:34:41 UTC #33

Read the headline of the thread again.

As I have to repeat my post 3 times, just because things does not effected you or anyone in anyway, you don't have it place it as a personal issue. You do not know what has happened and how it effected me or others and that does not put u in any right to shut someone off and simply to tell them, it's none of your problem. Sure there's things that is within what we can do, but it does not mean we cannot express what had happened.

It DOES concern me and it should be to the rest as long as me or other are still supporting and using their platform.
Lol. Look, I am not even trying to be some kind of a hero here neither you are.

Don't step in and try to shut someone out and tell them what they can or cannot do.
If you are actually working on the issue and had the same experience yet nothing could be done, fair enough.

I not trying to get anyone else in trouble here. And not esp when these artist AREN'T breaking any rules.
If they had, my complains would not trigger Line to ask them to get their contents taken down, yes?
I could have write in a hundreds of report and Line can simply ignore my email, so why are they going through the trouble to ask the artist to take their contents down? So it's clear to me they have breached their contact and not follow suit.
If you're supporting these artists by defending for their cause, I get it.

sourlemon0101 2016-12-10 07:48:01 UTC #34

Lol. I not trying to be a hero here neither do I think I am capable of,
if I do have that power I would not even be here writing about what had happened.

I'm only sharing my experience of what I have been through and inclusion of how Line's poor way of handling the matter.
And as in future to continue to support or not towards these artists also up my decision.
I personally do not see why Line is to be entirely blame for this, but sure I'm quite upset of how they handle it, it's very unprofessional.

sourlemon0101 2016-12-10 10:11:02 UTC #35

When I started out this thread, I only trying to express about how Line mishandled my case and the frustration of artist who've broke the rule. It's just that simple.
I do not like to bring up examples of such as getting the supported from patrons and money.
I do not see the readers as a consumer and product but rather as a spiritual support in my work. I do not like to link up examples of how supporters changes because no one can change that if they decided that they want to support someone else. It's something you can't do.
It would only means I had to work even harder to improve. And that is not why I started out this thread, if I did I would have wrote it from the start to begin with.
I don't know how this entire thread linked to that topic, but its greatly swifted from originally what I intended to write.

quimchee 2016-12-10 15:41:32 UTC #36

First: You don't even know the terms in each of the featured artists' contracts, so how can you say these artists that post on other platforms are breaching it? Saying these artists are "disgusting" is very disrespectful. Did you ever stop to think maybe not everyone's contracts are the same? Yes, it is known that LINE wants their comics to be exclusive to their website but perhaps this applies mostly to longform comics? I see EVERY longform comic get pulled from all the other websites while gag comics don't. And these comics that are still posting on other platforms, the content IS different even though it is slight.

Second: If the artist IS in fact breaking rules, then that is LINE's problem and not yours. And I don't really see how those artists breaking the rules are affecting those in discover negatively. The editorial team always have meetings about which discover comics get featured each month. If the team thinks your comic is worth featuring, then good, otherwise, keep trying. Also, sometimes the artists that get selected don't pull through therefore there are months when no discover artist gets moved to featured.

ratique 2016-12-10 16:25:12 UTC #37

Absolutely correct. LINE very possibly has special contracts with some of their creators. Especially those who already had huge followings before LINE wanted to feature them.

This is a standard practice in any professional job field, especially when working with artists.

If your whole reason for this thread is to complain that LINE flagged you because you complained about this issue to them, then all I can say is:
- You are in a forum of a completely different website, what do you expect us to do?
- We do not have any background information on your overall behavior on LINE. Somehow I don't think you were blocked because of you trying to uncover this great conspiracy. Talking about how creators disgust you gives me a hint about what language you might have used in the past, which turns into a block quite quickly.

Taking this whole issue to Tapastic's forum is a really weird thing to me. I understand that LINE has no forum themselves but taking a discussion like this to a site that is basically competition is just really odd to me and does not feel correct in any way.

VermillionWorks 2016-12-10 17:13:17 UTC #38

I'll say that if your only intention was to vent about people not following the rules at LINE and (possibly?) having your email blocked...yeah, sorry to hear they didn't hear you out or at least take the time to properly explain their side....but I think you've done all you can do and the rest only affects LINE.

Though I will say that I have a feeling some comics there have a different contract. Actually it would kind of make sense to me for gag comics to be allowed to be posted elsewhere, they're just...good for various sites, like advertising. I get the impression that they're just expected to post SOONER at LINE.

Basically, it's impossible to say for sure if they didn't respond, so may as well not worry about it and just 'assume' they know what they're doing. XP

ReroOnyx 2016-12-10 20:19:57 UTC #39

It seems very clear to me that you are far more upset that these artists are more popular and getting more attention. That's just how it goes. You advertise outside of other places and build up your audience. Nobody is being "Shameless" or "Whoring out" as you so delicately put it.

I would do the exact same thing too if I thought it would benefit me and LINE was ok with it. If I was Featured on Webtoons, I would try to expand my work as much as possible. If I thought it would benefit me, I would post on Tapastic, Comicfury, Smackjeeves, etc. That's how life works, that's how any bit of entertainment works.

As already noted, the reason LINE probably has this specific rule in their contract is to make sure they don't lose money and viewership. They are the ones offering payment and they need to make sure to keep their viewers. But what LINE does has nothing to do with you.

It's seem obvious to me that you are far more salty over the fact that these artists are getting more and more attention than you when in the end, you should work on your own projects and make them popular. Nobody has the job to hold your hand and make sure you become popular while hindering themselves.

You act like this is some kind of monopoly and popular artists are stealing your readers. They are not, if someone likes your work, they will read it. They will read both it and a very popular artist. This isn't like someone is buying out the competition or "Whoring Out."

This topic is literally pointless. We can't do anything about the block even if we think it wasn't justified and your entire point about Featured Webtoon artists posting elsewhere not only have zero effect on you or any of us, but is such a common practice to begin with none of are even surprised.

ratique 2016-12-10 20:42:13 UTC #40

Since this topic is not going anywhere and most opinions have been heard, I will now close it.

Thanks to everyone for your detailed posts!

Rat