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Sep 2020

I noticed this some time ago. But I guess I got around to it only now. Better late than never, I suppose! :smile:

For reference: Guidelines to pitching to premium22.

Back on topic. When I first joined, I remember there being a conditional factor associated with pitching to premium for novels. Just as it was with comics - 2,000 subscribers, creators of the written form were required to breach the 300-subscriber mark before being able to make any pitches. I'm not getting any immediate ideas, not at the moment anyway, but I do imagine being able to pitch my work someday.

The way it's currently worded however, makes it feel like Tapas is only going to accept completed, or near-complete works. There isn't a subscriber barrier anymore, and the fine print caters more to how any publishing company would accept a manuscript.

My questions:

  • What about existing, ongoing projects on Tapas?
  • What if it's progression based? Meaning, as an author, I know how it ends, but it might take a while to eventually get there.

To add to question #2, I write at a pace of about two chapters a week - the whole process of finishing a draft, proofing, editing, the whole deal. And I post to Tapas, with a buffer in place, at the same rate. When I finally decide to pitch to premium, will I need to be near the conclusion of my story? Can it be a mid-point? Any point really?

Just scratching my head over this right now.

@ratique Are you the right person to answer this question? :smile:

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This has been my exact question as well. I originally created the story I recently released with the plan of submitting it for the next Writer's Camp specifically because I knew it would take hundreds of chapters and numerous years for me to get it anywhere near completion. Writer's Camp seemed the only reasonable way to have it be considered for premium without going that long time and/or getting extremely lucky and having it become popular enough to get noticed on its own. Then when no Writer's Camp came again I emailed staff and they said there wouldn't be any more. I understand the reason why, but then, yeah, it does seem authors with long stories have to take the long route and kinda be left in the dust.

If I were pitching an ongoing series, I would stop updating until I got word if it would be accepted or not. If it is accepted, I imagine Tapas would want you to remove it.

Additionally, depending on how far along you are, they might ask if you are willing to changes aspects of the story, otherwise, people are going to be paying for the exact story they read for free, which isn't going to leave much reason for someone to buy it.

I don't know if that's the exact answer but that's my thoughts on it.

But that's a bit counterproductive, isn't it? A webnovel is only as successful as its audience. Why would Tapas want you to stop as you pitch, potentially alienating the very readers that form the ecosystem of their business model?

They used to have a barrier of 300 subscribers to see if a story could win an audience, like market pre-approval. It still exists for webcomics, albeit at 2,000 subscribers. Editor adjustments are a component that every writer has to go through. It could occur with webcomics as well. I don't know.

Even without any changes to the pre-released chapters, Tapas would still have signed a creator with a highly engaged audience that could convert to potential buyers for future chapters. I think that's the idea they went with initially. :confused:

If it's accepted as Premium it's going to re-launched. So I don't imagine that Tapas would want you to continue to update something that is going to be relaunched with a paywall. They aren't going to look at entire series during the pitch, they are going to look at what is provided to them, so temporarily stopping updates shouldn't make a difference.

Like I said, I don't know if that's the answer, but that's what I would do. That way, you're saving more of the story for when it's being paid for (and you're getting paid too)

@KRWright might be able to shine more light here :slight_smile:

I see your point. I suppose we just might have to wait for Tapas to answer that question!

I don't see why it would have to be relaunched. TBATE has the first 55 chapters available for free. Granted, I wasn't around when the story was launched so I don't know if the whole thing started out as free and they started putting the chapters behind a premium payment once it got popular or if they always planned it like that. However, it seems more reasonable to leave the chapters already available as free and charge for all new chapters going forward or to set a number, like 55, and just make sure accounts marked as having read the chapters already will have those chapters still unlocked. Relaunching the series entirely would alienate current readers, like LostSpirit said, and I feel like that would be a bigger hit to any gain than simply leaving a couple dozen chapters free.

I submit all my works as completed manuscripts and have been allowed to finish my works for free before monetising them. I see it as a reward for the people who have supported me throughout the serialisation process that they get to see the ending for free, and then if they discover it after the paywall.... well... Sorry. But I have other free works that they can read. Not sure if this is official policy - but it is fairly standard in novels publishing to have a novel completed before querying. With webserials, I think they'd look more at whether or not you had a significant number of chapters serialised, the frequency of posts, or if you'd satisfactorily completed 'acts' of a novel.

Tapas generally doesn't seem to care if you've finished or not when you pitch, but it definitely helps your sales to have a completed work is what I'll say.

Oh and I've seen another point about relaunching - yes when undergoing premiumisation your book is relaunched. While your initial however many chapters are left up for free - all the ones behind a paywall are reuploaded fresh (thus missing your previous engagement metrics). So basically your work is re-serialised again on the platform behind the paywall. That's how it's worked for me at least.

Okay. This clears a ton of my worries on the matter. I suppose I can live with losing all that engagement, given the ultimate goal of having my work become a premium title. Might sting a bit. Haha, I think.

Anyway, thanks for getting back to me on the matter, KR! :smile:

Hello! Novels team content editor here answering the questions I've seen in this thread:

  • Existing, ongoing projects on Tapas (and any other site) are more than welcome to be submitted! It puts the series on our radar, which is definitely a good thing. But we usually don't offer a contract unless a considerable standalone segment (first volume in the series, etc.) of a story is complete or near-complete.

  • If it's a longer series we'd be happy to serialize on an ongoing basis depending on: (a) the author's writing/update speed, and (b) how much backlog currently exists (~80k words is a good starting point).

  • For the question about progression, we do ask for an outline, and it helps out a lot for us to know that the author has future plot points/character arcs planned out. A well-plotted outline wouldn't convince us to sign on an unfinished work for premium serialization. I'm not sure if that answered your question -- feel free to clarify!

  • While your pitch is being considered, you're more than welcome to continue releasing updates for your series!

Let me know if anyone else has questions about premium submissions for novels! Hope y'all are having a wonderful day.

Would having a successful free story (decent amount of subs, good level of engagement, etc) increase chances of a second story being considered for premium?

I don't really want to make The Love of a Werewolf premium, but I was thinking about pitching a side project I've been working on once I get it finished.

If a series was successful while free that definitely improves its chances of going premium! A series which did well on the free-to-read side of things will likely do well as a premium series too. At the same time, if a submitted story isn't doing well on our free-to-read side that'll be taken into consideration, while taking into account confounding factors which might be changed during production such as the cover, blurb, logline, general presentation, etc.

Hello! Thanks for such a detailed answer! :smile:

But two quick questions here! I promise I'll try and not ask more ^_^

  1. ~80k words. Just confirming. By this, do you mean to say that roughly 80k words (completed) is a good starting point for a conversation on whether the story is viable for premium serialization?

  2. desktop_dragon:

    A well-plotted outline wouldn't convince us to sign on an unfinished work for premium serialization.

I might have not understood this correctly. But did you mean "would convince" here? :sweat_smile:

They were referring to a backlog.
ie On Tapas (or another site) currently is a finished arc that is 50k words long, but the story isn't finished, and you have 80k words ready to be released that are sitting in the Schedule feature. So 50k of the story is public, and another 80k the public has not seen.

No, they did mean "would not". They simply meant that "just because you have a well-plotted outline and know where you're going does not mean that novels submitted to us with poorly organized outlines will be rejected." In that sense, the outline is important, but the organization or "fullness" of it is less so. They just want to see where you're planning to go moving foward.

"just following the topic" :eyes:

However, I find pitching a story super intimidating and scary :sweat_02: and also, how many writers sit with a backlog of 80k+ words?

casually shoves a backlog over 150k to the side
I actually know a few writers who churn out 50k a month on the regular. They just love to write and commit themselves to it. It is their job outside of their 9-5 job.

... I feel lucky if I ever get past 1k in just a month...

Sadly, it's impressive and demotivating at the same time. However, I guess it is the same for artists trying to keep up with their respective elites?

If that is indeed the case, then it's a good thing that it's not a hard rule. I can't imagine having an 80k backlog, not with my job. I maintain a 15k buffer for the benefit of my readers. Can't hope for much more.

But at least this feels like they're open to checking things out as long as it fits into their business model. That's good news!

I'm having internet issues, otherwise I'd link you to my thread about "share your writing tools" where I literally have images breaking down my stats of how many words are in a "finished" chapter and that those can take weeks to accomplish. I may have a huge backlog for tapas only but not for other sites. I'm just utilizing the Schedule feature to release 500~ words or so at a time.

I'm having internet issues too atm (or at least the server for this forum is having issues)

When you see this message, I would love for you to share the link! I'd love to get some more insight!
I recently began breaking up chapters into smaller bits of about 400-500 words to make it more consumer friendly for readers on Tapas. :cry_01:

Maybe the servers for the forum are in line of the tornados, fires, or whatever else is hitting the US. It's been hit or miss alllllll evening on this site for me (lots of 500 errors).
I was able to grab the link! :smiley: https://forums.tapas.io/t/lets-share-our-story-building-tools-spoilers/482874
I have noticed that through my binge readers that the 500 or so word mark is perfect at about 5-8 minutes of reading, some faster and some slower. So that's likely the right "digest" size for Tapas's viewers.

If a story was really successful on a different site but the following on here was small atm, could the author refer to their work on the other site to show its potential popularity?

Also what is the novel Subscriber minimum for a pitch?

Thanks for answering all these questions!

It sounds like the novels have no more minimum, but I vaguely recall it used to be 300.

Nope, regular time for me to be up.

@desktop_dragon - I was just wondering if the novel premium process is different than the Early Access program I've seen for a few comics pop up?
Primarily one comic I've started reading and has apparently been around for a while, somehow has joined the Early Access program, but unlike Premium - the comic is not relisted or re-released in anyway. It looks like it's just given access to people who want to read as far ahead as possible through some sort of paywall+date caps? Is this system not available for novels, or is it too new still?

This is pretty common with a lot of writers I know in serialisation. It's a 50-50 split almost on who finishes their works before even posting and those who write with large buffers. Like 1 or 2 write as they go by the actual seat of their pants and that frightens the hell out of me.

Eh? o.o I'd imagine that a sound individual would at least look through and edit if needed before they post it anywhere? No?

I yeet my first drafts into the public sphere. I generally have the attitude that first drafts are free-to-read, edited final drafts are paid for. But I also do a lot of planning before ever setting pen to paper.

I'm writing the bulk/completing my current project for Tapas ahead of time. Since I'm back in college, having it done will take a load from both our backs! Till then, I'm just plugging away at it.

So that's why you've been so quiet for so long AND pumping words out like crazy
yes, I see them updates on Instagram :sweat_02:

That is what I have been doing until now with my current novel, but the progress is super slow because I can not stay focused. (medical issues for that)

I am so excited to know that ongoing works can apply for premium status!!! Like I actually screamed and can feel my heart racing!!!! I just have a few more questions @desktop_dragon, sorry if they're too specific!

My main wip that I'm updating on Tapas is over 100 chapters and still ongoing, I'm wondering if maybe that's too long? Though hearing that @KRWright is able to finish posting their story for free before monetizing is very encouraging! I also have the same mindset of "this is my first draft, take a look and stay if you like it!"

Camp 5O, my main wip, is currently on book 2 but I'm uploading it on the same story. Book 1 is chs 1-100, book 2 will end at around ch 180 and book 3 will be around 50-80 chapters. The story is currently on ch 145. If I want to apply for premium should I wait until I finish the entire three books or can I apply for just book 1?

My bad for the poor wording! Even if a work has a very strong outline, we wouldn't take it on unless it has at least ~80k words ready to go.

~80k words is indeed the point at which a series is considered viable for premium serialization!

Followings on other sites are taken into account! Which is why it helps us out to have relevant links included in the pitch.

Also, there's no minimum novel subscriber count, but a high subscriber count would be a definite plus. We changed this so that writers from off-site who might not have any following on Tapas feel welcome to pitch!

Early Access is a feature I'd love to roll out to novelists but there's some technical and logistical obstacles that make it infeasible for large scale implementation. Hopefully that changes in the future!

You're more than welcome to send in a pitch for the entire series, which we would consider based on what is currently published. If you wanted we could also consider just the first volume for serialization. In your pitch you're more than welcome to request the sort of publishing arrangement you're looking for!

@desktop_dragon

Great! I hate to sound like a broken record, but I'm triple confirming. Maybe I can use my own example as a reference. I have a series that's got 90k words already published on Tapas. This qualifies for a pitch, correct? :smile:

I have my own internal subscriber goal before even considering a pitch, but I would still love to keep myself motivated this way.

And thanks again! I've always loved how responsive you guys are to creator queries! ^_^

90k words qualifies! Looking forward to reading through your pitch :smiley:

Also a question

I put my novel on complete yesterday with 108k words.
at this moment book 2 is at 25k+ words and being worked on every day. So I think that should be alright.

Here's the question: I'm in proces of rewriting book 1. Adding content and just making it better. giving It 6k words extra in 5 chapters and ongoing.
If I would pitch, can I pitch for the rewriten version? Or would you look at the one that's posted now