Patreon : Tips and Tatics

[delphina2k]

Love this thread! I think the "indirect outreach" is so important; it's easy to get desensitized to bland "support me on Patreon" links, and this is a good way to keep it new and fresh.

The hardest part of Patreon for me is thinking of fun rewards for backers. I do have a nice easy "I'll link to your site on my site" reward that people take me up on, and a "behind the scenes" blog, but I have trouble distinguishing what should be "secret" content and what should be my normal promotional content to attract new readers.

And I know they're popular, but I'm not actually a fan of "see tomorrow's page today!" reward tiers. Logistically, it's a nightmare because Patreon isn't built for comics right now. You can't queue updates like you'd be able to on your normal comic CMS, it doesn't work for RSS readers, the art gets compressed in the update email, and it's totally stripped of your branding. I think the best place to read your comic should always be your main website, where you have complete control over how it's displayed.

Milestones, though, I can get behind. I do updates twice a week, and after I'm done with my Kickstarter obligations, my goals are to do three updates a week and bonus stories if we hit certain milestones. That's always really compelling for me as a reader, and if I could pay a flatter, I think I could do it. Plus, I think it's important to have on-going incentives to keep contributing, as opposed to one-time commissions, which I think are better served by Kickstarter.

But like all webcomic advice, it's important to find out what resonates with your audience. Things that are wildly popular when another artist offers them do not work for me sometimes, and vice versa. Refresh and re-evaluate your promotion plans on a regular basis, listen to your audience, and don't be afraid to drop something that's too much work.

[PotooGryphon]

That's a good question, and something I've been considering myself.

I think, for me, having two different support pages would take up a lot of time to maintain. Also it'd be a lot to remember what you've promised on each site and carrying it through like how @AnnaLandin mentioned.

For me, personally, I think when I've reached the reader support level here on Tapastic I'll be making the switch to the Tapastic Support System. There are things about Patreon that make it a little difficult to succeed there.
- Like, I have to bring supporters to the site from my own site (the more streamlined the process is the better). Since we already have a following of awesome enthusiastic readers here on Tapastic, it'd be more streamline to setup the Support button on our page for easier one click support.
- Also, Patreon doesn't have a good browsing system on their site for people that are already on Patreon to happen upon your page. They pretty much have to be there looking for you to find you.
- And something that really gets me about Patreon, is I can't schedule post to, well, post lol. I have to physically go to the site and post my early access pages for my supporters. Or physically go there to create announcements and such, instead of scheduling an announcement of when I'm streaming or when an early access is suppose to go up.

All and all, I'm thinking the Tapastic support program would be the best option for my team to focus on when we get there, and ask our supporters to move over here since most of them are already on Tapastic anyways. lol

[PotooGryphon]

Something i found today looking at some Patron profiles/campaings is the fact that a lot of people earning a considerable amount of support, are doing sexual related content (even with copyrighted characters).

Oh yes, NSFW content on Patreon is very popular understandably. I hope that doesn't build any kind of negative stigma for comic supporters that do get offended/scared off by that material. Or just a public eye opinion of the site, in general.

And I know they're popular, but I'm not actually a fan of "see tomorrow's page today!" reward tiers. Logistically, it's a nightmare because Patreon isn't built for comics right now. You can't queue updates like you'd be able to on your normal comic CMS, it doesn't work for RSS readers, the art gets compressed in the update email, and it's totally stripped of your branding. I think the best place to read your comic should always be your main website, where you have complete control over how it's displayed.

Totally agree! That drives me super crazy about the site haha If they only have a queuing feature or a way to use your site's own RSS reader, it'd totally be amazing. The founder of Patreon is a comic maker, it makes no sense that it's not comics friendly. lol

Love your advice on Milestones. Have you done many kickstarter campaigns? What kind of offers do you find works best for Milestones?

[alakotila]

@CyndiFoster I recently added the risque sorta NSFW perk due to supporter interest, and have been thinking about moving those sketches to something like a password-protected tumblr … however, interaction is not easy on tumblr! I wanted to remove it from the general patreon stream for those who may not want to see it while browsing other WIPs and updates, but am not quite clear on how to do this yet. Also, it is specific to my comic characters, and I do other projects that may get support in the future so I wanted to remove these sketches from the general stream for more than one reason.

Has anyone else moved this perk from their patreon stream?

My advice, I just realised, is not really advice.

I usually recommend that you don't tack on too much extra work in low tier rewards or milestones so that you wind up drained or taxed, but if it works for you why not? My rewards are mostly WIPs for the comic process, illustrations, and insider info on hilariously bad ideas I had for characters/story etc. However, patrons also get very early access to scripts for new comic projects or anything else I am working on such as games or novels. Since most of my rewards are process images and I try to reserve them for patrons only, I end up doing extra art on top of that for promotion. So yes … I do end up doing a heck of a lot of work anyway!

I agree with what's pretty much been said here. Just be honest, keep an open line of communication with your supporters, and don't be afraid to re-evaluate rewards/milestones/etc that are not working or to try new things. It is not set in stone!

[revisionstudios]

This has a lot of good advice. Though I haven't launched my Patreon yet, we're doing it this week (so excited!) so I'm glad I read through this to take it into consideration.

I've run a successful Kickstarter, so that's helped me in setting it up smartly, but I'm sure I'll still have hiccups along the way. One of my BIGGEST pieces of advice (That I haven't seen mentioned here) is concerning your video.

Don't talk about yourself. Or if you do, don't lead with it and don't ramble. The number one thing that makes me stop a video early or tune it out is someone going on about how comics are their passion, how they've had this idea since high school, or any form of "this story is my baby". I mean, I empathize, I do--but those motivations are a dime in a dozen. Anyone that is keeping up with producing a comic has passion. So it isn't what makes you unique and it's not what's going to make me want to read your comic.

Tell me what the comic is about, first and foremost. Story tropes are a dime in a dozen too, so how did you make the concept yours? What makes it worth reading? If you're ambitious, get a voice actor to narrate a trailer for you. This is your chance to combine visuals, music, and narration to hook someone into wanting to put their hard earned money on an untested product. It's not something to be taken lightly!

P.S. I would also steer away from comedy unless your comic IS a comedy. It's hard to pull off at the best of times and can easily be hit or miss.

[delphina2k]

Love your advice on Milestones. Have you done many kickstarter campaigns? What kind of offers do you find works best for Milestones?

I've done two Kickstarters (in the middle of fulfilling my second). I don't have much to show for hitting milestones on my Patreon yet, but I try to pay attention to other peoples' campaigns so that when I do have the bandwidth, I'll have a plan in place. So much I want to try!

My rewards are mostly WIPs for the comic process, illustrations, and insider info on hilariously bad ideas I had for characters/story etc.

Oooh, I like the hilariously bad idea direction. I have lots of those! Hmmmm...

[getsuart]

Man, this is a very interesting topic

Running a Patreon is hard. How can you do your promotional thing without bothering everyone again and again ? I've been wondering this since quite a few times now.
Also, the idea of Patroen itself is something hard to get into people's mind ; I know a lot of people who just told me "you want money ? Go get a job, then. I'm not supposed to pay you for your webcomic" and it's quite harsh. Explaining the reasons to them isn't also enough ; they still think that if you want to get paid, you get a job that will allow you to do your webcomic.

Anyway, I digress.
For those who support me (there are really a few but I owe them a lot), I have high tier rewards with drawings (about what they want). And I think the least I can do is to really drawing it for them! I thought about giving the apges before, but as I'm not regular on my way of drawing, I give the inked versions ; at least, they see something.
Didn't tought of fancy things I must say...

And I agree @CyndiFoster ; the fact you can't schedule your updates is something really, really annoying. I'm also thinking about switching with Tapastic's Support System for all the reasons you told...

[PotooGryphon]

How can you do your promotional thing without bothering everyone again and again ?

It's a challenge not to be super annoying about it at times, and I'm always a bit self conscious about it when posting.

My thoughts are the best way to promote a thing is to be indirect about it. Getting excited about the plans you have for it and letting people know, "Big plans in the works, guys! We're revamping our Patreon and will be offering even more cool stuff that I can't wait to show you!" Or getting excited about things being offer, "Holy cow! We just received our shipment of buttons for the $1 and up Patreons and they look so good! [insert picture of said buttons]" or "Just finished a bunch of sketches for you lovely Patreons out there. Thank you so much for the support! [insert picture of sketches on a drawing table]" so on like that, maybe.

Make it more of like a status update than a self promotion thing. Those are more enjoyable to read and fun to see the lovely the cool stuff people are receiving through supporting you.

Also, the idea of Patroen itself is something hard to get into people's mind ; I know a lot of people who just told me "you want money ? Go get a job, then. I'm not supposed to pay you for your webcomic" and it's quite harsh. Explaining the reasons to them isn't also enough ; they still think that if you want to get paid, you get a job that will allow you to do your webcomic.

So many non-artist normal civilian people have the idea that art is/should be free and it's a hobby, not a career. However, all of us that are seeking to make it a career are actually, and should be considered as, entrepreneur launching our small businesses. We do all the same things as other entrepreneurs in other fields do; worry about getting our names out there, copyright, promoting, making a sustaining living off of what we love, quality control, time, taxes, hiring help, thinking of new ideas to make it happen, niche marketing, overhead, print cost, on and on we're the same. We are creating our own job, and the day job is just there until the job we're creating takes over. Which just takes time to grow.

I don't get too concerned over trying to convince these people that art is more than a hobby. I have too many other thoughts and ideas brewing on how to launch my career to let them distract me.

Either they'll want to support me and join my wacky fun journey or they won't and will just want to keep reading for free (which actually they'll still support me indirectly through ad revenue $$$), either way it's all good, and I'm still making art.

[getsuart]

Status ! I perfectly see what you mean I also use some.
A friend also suggested me some fun comics for promoting, but I still haven't figured out a real good one.
to be fair I'm not really complaining either, I don't make a lot of promotion things, so it's quite hard to know that my Patreon exists

So many non-artist normal civilian people have the idea that art is/should be free and it's a hobby, not a career. However, all of us that are seeking to make it a career are actually, and should be considered as, entrepreneur launching our small businesses.

It's just sad when it comes from others artists. We're buddies, we shouldn't be that bitter to each other when it comes to Patreon. I just wanted to note this, because I know there are a lot of people who react like that. So I wanted to see how everyone "answer" to this, because I'm curious

Of course, they can read it for free. Patreon is just a plus if you want to help more and all ! I didn't mean to make think that I'm wanting everyone on a support system, or else I go make a kickstarter for a comicbook.
Plus, the support is also in the comments, the ad revenue system, and the big love people show to your comic.

I'm really sorry, I feel lacking of good words to fully explain myself, but it was mostly curiosity !

Sidenote :

they'll still support me indirectly through ad revenue $$$

The $$$ at the end just makes me imagine you with coins falling from the sky and you avatar with some black glasses under it.

[PotooGryphon]

Found this advice on twitter by Chanh Quach ( @QuachYourBack )

[windikite]

Hi there!
I am trying to earn some money by opening up a patreon so I can pawn off my experience and provide tutorials/walkthroughs on how I do certain things. One of the key things I will be including is full resolution documents and pictures with layers intact.

But enough shameless advertisement. I would like to know who of you ave patreons, who is interested in doing one, who is a Patron, and what do you look for in one?

Thanks!

Here is mine for those interested :3
My Patreon

[joannekwan]

Hm, currently I'm only a member of the Support Program here on Tapastic, since the vast majority of my reader base is here. I suppose if I did get more recognition I could start a Patreon but then again I don't know whether to incorporate my other artwork or keep it strictly for my comics. As for who I support, so far I'm only supporting others on Tap, I like the intimacy of staying in the Tapastic community.

[keii4ii]

I'm not very interested in the perks. The really good perks are typically too expensive for me... so my wallet only allows me to support creators whom I just want to cheer on without expecting anything in return. Anything other than the awesomeness of their work, anyway.

I do have a Patreon account, but it's not very well maintained (I need to do an overhaul soon). Like @joannekwan I am in the Tapastic support program, and I like staying here. The only reason I have a Patreon account at all is to support my favorite creator who's not on Tapastic (they don't even make comics!), and to give an option to my readers who don't have an account here. They may be few, but I'm still grateful to them, whether or not they can afford to pay. ^^

[carodoodles]

I just started a Patreon account as well. Patreon is a nice venue for those who don't use tap. I'm still considering about adding Tap as well. Not sure.

As for what I look in Patreons- like above I'm not VERY interested in perks. I'd be just glad to be able to support other creators and give back to the art community that has helped me out so much as an artist.

[yartzanaserenade]

Oooh your page is already very good ! I liked your video!
I also like that you're keeping it simple and fresh.

I only have 1 patron so far cause I suck at promoting my work . But that Patron is now giving me work so I guess I was lucky!

I'm broke, but I'm following you! I hope you'll find Patrons soon! Keep fighting

[Laeva]

I'm a patron, too. But I cannot offer big amounts of money and just want to support my favourit artists a little bit without much in return (my only demand: Don't stop doing what you already do!).

[carodoodles]

It's ok I have one patron too!

[windikite]

I can understand this, it is much better and more enticing imo to give to those you can say hi to easily and help them give into the community you are both apart of. Or you could simply favor those active in the place you love!

[windikite]

How much is a good price for you on average then? This is perfectly valid, and people who have patreons need to cater to those in your position. In the faqs poage for patreon, it says most pledges are between $3-5 I believe. There are almost always higher amounts with different perks, but I think that having the bulk of your content at that range is a good idea.

@yartzanaserenade
Thank you! it's my first patreon of course, and I barely knew how to put a video together. Kept it under 1:30 and told them the facts. Also, I like showing larger pieces of my favorite pieces rather than a million samples sooo yeah Promoting myself is something I'm not sure I can do well, since I really don't have any follower base to work from. Time will tell though.
Thanks for following me! Tbh, that is what matters the most, that people enjoy my stuff. I'll draw either way, but money will keep me from diggin myself into a hole while doing it I guess thats the same with everyone though haha
I stream a fair bit, so that is one thing people who are not pledged can enjoy if they want, I always explain what people want on there.

@Laeva
This seems to be a recurring theme, not wanting much in return. Is there anything that you think would interest non-artists or people who would want different content perhaps?

[keii4ii]

ow much is a good price for you on average then?

I've never pledged more than $1, to be honest, even though that usually gets me in the "you get a heartfelt thanks from me and nothing else!" tier. I'm that broke. XD