PLOT & CONFLICT: Slow and Steady or Straight to the point?

[shazzbaa]

A story where you don't even know what the main conflict is because the creator wants to keep their readers in a cloud of "wth is going on? but who cares it seems interesting" until later so the impact of the actual conflict hits you like a bus aka mindblown.

My feelings are that there's a BIG difference between "you don't know the main conflict" and "being kept in a cloud of 'what the hell is going on.'" The former makes for a cool and intriguing discovery when information is revealed slowly; the latter leans dangerously close to poor storytelling.

If a character's actions don't make sense to us, and we can't figure out their motivation, that all by itself won't make us curious, and you can't blow your readers' minds if they weren't curious in the first place. We have to CARE in order to be curious. If there's a Mysterious Flashback or a scene we can't understand, sure, we'll wait to find out what that was all about. But if more and more and more scenes don't make sense to us and we can't put ANYTHING together, we'll stop being curious and start being frustrated and uninterested.

We don't need answers right away, but we do need to gain more insight to our questions as we read.

Yet because of that some are confused and the comic may seem really lighthearted without any actual "plot".

The thing is, reading Four Quarters, right now you DO have a plot -- Nana was somehow transported to another world / dream world / otome game??? and she has to figure out what her new life is without letting on that she has no memory of said new life. So she has a goal, and obstacles, and her motivation so far ("I've escaped to a dream world somehow and I'm gonna milk it for all it's worth") makes sense. Regardless of how those goals, obstacles, and motivations will evolve in the future, your comic has a plot.

I think a tricky part is that for this kinda story, if you want to take your time building up to "the real plot" you GOTTA see this part of the story as a part of "the real plot" too. If you skip over and summarise conversations, don't really show us much of what the people around Nana expect her to be or how they click or don't click with each other, gloss over tense moments or potential conflicts, and keep their interactions kinda shallow, then we're gonna take that as a clue that this isn't the important part of the story, and that's when it'll feel like it hasn't got a "real plot".

When a story builds slowly, you don't want your foreshadowing to feel meaningless -- you want those moments to have meaningful emotion so that your readers remember them, even if they don't understand their full significance. Then you won't have a story that feels like it takes forever to get going -- you'll have one that ramps up even more when the true conflict is finally revealed.

[AnnaLandin]

My comic is very much in the slow-and-steady category. I'm on chapter five, and I haven't introduced the main antagonist yet. Stuff has happened, plot-important stuff, and will continue to happen, but most of the time so far has been spent on establishing relationships between main characters, introducing additional important characters, and building mystery and atmosphere.

It starts off with a bit of a bang in the first 10 pages (main character is attacked by a bandit! he kills the bandit, woohoo! but no wait what's this, a small bloodstained child just stepped out from behind a tree - what now? D:), but slows down considerably after that, because the story is anchored in its characters, rather than in the plot. The plot matters - they have things to do! - but it only matters if the readers care about the characters.

As for what I enjoy as a reader... I like both types of story! I'm a pretty patient reader, who cares a lot about characters, so I don't mind plots being slow to build, as long as it feels like the author is using the downtime to actually accomplish something. If it's just empty filler - or just comic relief in a story obviously intended to be dramatic, that doesn't actually build towards something that's going to happen later - it feels a bit frustrating. Use that slow time wisely.

I like getting to know characters, and I like getting hints and clues that, if I put them together right, helps me start unravelling mysteries or secrets those characters are keeping, so that's what I try to do in my own comic. My main character has a whole barrel of secrets that he doesn't like talking about, but I drop hints here and there, and establish that reluctance to talk (it helps that his constant companion is semi-mute and doesn't really ask questions), etc., etc.

[Mane]

I suppose it really depends on the execution. Throwing some hints here and there are a good way of preparing the audience if done right, though don't just do it through information alone, try to use scenes that changes the mood too, something that evokes a sentiment that will make sense once the heavier part of the plot arrives.

[Kamikaze]

Though I guess slower-paced story writers might be at a greater risk? in that it might be easy to forget that "I'm taking my time" doesn't mean "I can afford to waste time"?

That's exactly what I meant. You just said it better @keii4ii

[SamNoir]

I honestly TRULY believe that every issue, every page, every panel, every line NEEDS to have a point. If it is not adding to the character or the plot or the story then it's excess fat that needs to be carved.

A writer should be asking throughout every panel and line... What is the NORMAL. What is the thing that changes that NORMAL. What is the UNEXPECTED RESULT?

VICTORIAN FOUR

ZIP KRAMER SAVIOUR OF THE UNIVERSE

[Stinahhh]

Thanks for actually going through a bit of my comic! The thing with mine is I plan for it to be quite long, the whole her going into some type of world is part of the plot but not quite the problem at all. It's tricky for me because nana is a character who is kind of numb emotionally but I don't want the readers to know that just yet, so conversations aren't completely "empty" as they will give in clues and snippets of her listless, non-empathetic side. Meanwhile to her the interactions she has with those around her are meaningless. But I'll work on the comic to show how she grows out of it etc. and finds out the truth of what or where that world is. Also to work towards a smooth buildup that won't take too long!

[Stinahhh]

I'm hoping to keep my main character a barrel of secrets too, so although the comic centers around her, she is actually the most mysterious. I don't intend for my comic to have empty fillers(I already hate fillers in shows enough!) but I'll need to experiment and hope it doesn't come off as that but to give adequate amounts of hints to her true nature. Thanks for your comment!

[Stinahhh]

Yeah I'll make sure that everything is for the sake of the plot and not to be excess fat. About the 'NEEDING to have a point' though, would you say it's more difficult for longer scroll-type webcomics to have each and every line be of significance vs a comic that publishes one panel filled page?

[ConradComics]

I've seen three different methods work.

1) The straight to the point.
2) The slow and steady.
3) And the 'Three Weeks Earlier...' where someone starts the story with action and then backs up to the slow and steady parts leading up to it. Attempting to hold interest with good at-the-moment storytelling, but also with the promise of getting back to that 'cool' part.

Now personally, the 'Three Weeks Earlier' shtick is a pet peeve of mine, but it does work, so I can't disregard it. In fact, I honestly can't say any of the three are right or wrong. They certainly have their strengths and weaknesses. If I were to choose just one though, I prefer the slow and steady. So many good stories have started with 'normal life' that's shattered for good by the end of Act I, which fits the structure of a three act story anyhow.

My upload here on Tapastic, Her Shadow, is in manga format, so follows an intro-boom-resolve approach. It's a foreign writing pacing for me; I'll admit, but I like the challenge. I also find it interesting, because my MC met the titular character in the first chapter, so it's not like I had the characters twiddling their thumbs, but I'm beginning to realize the rest of this intro section will take a really, really long time. It's like a combination of starting fast and taking it slow and steady. In retrospect, that's probably why I like manga in general.

[keii4ii]

And the 'Three Weeks Earlier...'

I don't think that's a different type of pacing. You can do a slow story or a fast story with that sort of an introduction. I'm kind of doing that with my own slow and steady story, in fact.

[ConradComics]

I dunno if I would call HoK a 'Three Weeks Earlier...' story. It seems more time-travel/dimensional-travel based, which keeps the 'present' with the traveler. Whereas with a 'Three Weeks Earlier...' story is more like a series--long flashback, where no one but the audience travels back (and sometimes forth)...

...if that made any sense, lol.

[keii4ii]

@furankuc4ld The very first episode shows Ethan when he's already at/near the Heart of Keol?

[PurpleGround]

Alright. About the going in with a bang? That's what I did with my comic. And especially with the first page Blight Page 1. I believe this method is called "page turner" or "the hook"... you know, makes you wanna turn the page, find out more. Here I straight away introduced the ongoing conflict, or.. what the main character is going to deal with, or what started that something. It could be spreaded out to a few more pages but I guess to be a "page turner" style every dialouge and events has to go straight to the point. Any thing else is fillers, or character development time. Your character needs development. At some point, I skipped / jump to the point so many time I got a complaint saying its going too fast. lol. I guess fillers are like breathers. People need to emotionally relax and had fun before diving back in. Have you seen "10 Lane Cloverfield"? That's the "bang" type.

[agentfink]

every issue, every page, every panel, every line NEEDS to have a point.

I just want to say this is awesome, and exactly how I see comic pages. There was some small talk about it in another thread...

[Mane]

I mostly agree with that statement, it's true that you have each panel needs to have a purpose, but I'm not so sure about the second part

If it is not adding to the character or the plot or the story then it's excess fat that needs to be carved.

I use a lot of "mood setters" , panel's or pages that are there to either set a certain tone or indicate a place, etc. I do feel like it hurts the pacing somewhat, but it's how I envision the story. For instance the last page I posted only features a character waking up in a bar. Some might say that does nothing to the plot or character .

[joannekwan]

Well that would be an establishing shot so I would count those as important! Just best not to have too many of them.

[Mane]

Yup, especially if you can only upload 3 pages a week * sobs * . But some might argue that if it can be resumed in a sentence or a single panel that's how it should be done. I think I remember a discussion regarding a chapter where almost nothing happened and most complained because it hurt the pacing, but it was one of my favorites, I really felt it got the point across in terms of setting a certain mood.

[maxzaguishi]

first a little publicity to my comic
https://tapastic.com/series/WHITE-PALADIN-
Second, slow and steady, is that I do not have much but a good story (at least in my case) is better than a fight without sense

[ConradComics]

Ah, yeah, the 1.0 for sure. I dunno how I missed that.

[Stinahhh]

Haha I know what you mean with the "three weeks earlier" type. It's not a fave of mine but yeah, sometimes it works. I personally love manga snd II find the manga format is a lot more free in terms of paneling and pacing so it's different and yet, still challenging but props to you!