Should we always critique art in comics?

Kaisei 2023-03-07 07:58:04 UTC #43

Whether or not you as a creator should ask for a critique depends on your goals. Maybe you create to express yourself or as a hobby, and you really don't care about developing a large audience. If you want to market your comic, getting an outside opinion from "the readers" can help you decide what to work on. However, sometimes you do need to create in a space without criticism (from yourself and others), so you aren't blocked by too many thoughts; create first, then edit.

Generally, it's best to stay away from making unsolicited critiques because you don't know what the creator's goals are, although I think it's okay to bring up major issues (for instance if readability is affected).

I try to only correct/complain about grammar in premium comics because Tapas as a company is responsible for translating and editing. Creators and even editors are human; errors will happen. However, if a premium comic has a lot of grammatical errors, I assume that Tapas either didn't hire enough editors or didn't pay them well enough that they could take sufficient time to correct each mistake.

My background is literature, so I tend to be more sensitive to bad writing than bad art. I've dropped many comics that had beautiful art but mediocre plot and/or characters. If we compare novels to comics, writing style is the parallel to art style. I have a difficult time reading novels on Tapas because I just can't cope with the writing style of many of them. I may enjoy the comics based on those novels, but my brain won't overlook awkward or lackluster writing as easily as an art blip.

darthmongoose 2023-03-07 08:06:41 UTC #44

First off, it's important to remember that there are two kinds of reviews: Reviews readers write for other readers, which as a creator, it may not be wise for creators to read, and especially not to engage with, and reviews by other creators to give advice for improvement, which the audience doesn't need to see.

If readers, in conversation with each other, say things like "Yeah, it was okay, the art was a bit janky, but it was fun" then they're allowed to have that opinion. If they're on Goodreads and they make a review like "it's a decent enough debut graphic novel that should entertain you for an hour. The art is distractingly rough at times, but makes up for it in charm", you should ALSO not jump in to comment on it, any more than a chef should jump on a bad review on google maps or whatever. You made a product, you published it; consumers are allowed to have opinions, and it may be better not to read them and to instead consult experts for advice to improve. It's also on the readers end, bad ettiquette to tag the creator in their critical reviews, or to put their reader-facing reviews in the comments on Tapas or Webtoon where the creator will see them.

That said, to reiterate, consumers are allowed to have opinions about your product, and if you don't want people to view your work as a product don't put it on a platform where it's widely available to consumers. Honestly, if people treat your work like it's a product, and leave comments as though they don't think the creator will read them, in some ways it should be a compliment; it means they don't see you as an amateur participating in a community; they're viewing you like a professional whose work has been published and are talking about you like they would about a published author.

In the other scenario, well, I'm somebody who likes to give people feedback when they request it. It's a favourite hobby of mine! And from my perspective, nothing ticks me off quite like when somebody asks for feedback on their work, but they don't really want feedback, they just want validation, so they play this infuriating game where the critic is not allowed to criticise certain things. "Hi there, I'd like your feedback on my comic, but you're not allowed to criticise my art, because I'm just a beginner, and you're not allowed to criticise my story because I really like it and I don't want to change anything about it, so please just criticise my dialogue font, but understand I don't want to install any new fonts so..." All I can say is "Er... It's....fine, I guess?"
...But inside, I am on fire, because oh my god, why has this person not looked up how to do colour fills without a halo around them? Why are they using bright red as a line colour on all the skin, even skintones darker than that line colour? Why is every panel a close-up!? These are such easy things to fix to make this comic look better and I'm not allowed to say anything! Aaaaaagh! It's a waste of my time. I want to help people to achieve their goal of making clear, effective comics that an audience will enjoy, and that could maybe get published, and sometimes I have to suggest people change things. None of us are the special exception who just gets to make whatever their whims and instincts dictate, and put in only as much effort as feels convenient outside of playing videogames and whatever and then garner universal praise for an amazing comic. To make a comic that people love is a monumental effort.

Comics are a beautiful blend of art and writing, and they're a storytelling medium designed to entertain people. The art doesn't have to be as perfectly polished as a standalone illustration, because each panel is designed to be consumed in a matter of seconds, but it needs to do the heavy lifting telling the story. If the art is confusing, or even just unpleasant to look at, then it has a negative impact on reader enjoyment, and readers are allowed to not like it. Most of them just won't bother to read and will silently wander off to read something else, but some might express it in comments and say "ugh, this art is unpleasant to look at" or "I can't tell what's meant to be happening". If they do this, it means they wanted to enjoy your comic, the premise interested them, or the cover grabbed them, and they're frustrated because they're not having a good time. You put up a table in the middle of the city, and a sign that says "delicious cakes here!" and somebody tried one and said "it's a bit dry..." and you're trying to be like "WELL, I'm just an amateur baker, so you're not allowed to criticise the taste of my cakes!" ...WHY ON EARTH did you set up your table in the middle of the city and put up a sign that says "delicious cakes there!" then!? Just serve them at home if you don't want the public to have opinions!

Nobody is forcing you to put any comic you make on Tapas, a platform with over 3 million readers, where your work will be in the same category as incredible, hard-working people at the top of their field, like Paul Duffield, Alice Osman, Emma Vieceli, Sarah Anderson and the like. If you're scared of the idea of readers having opinions about your work, because you just make comics for yourself and a select group of friends you trust to know you're just doing it for fun, then just make it available to friends. There's nothing wrong with that. You simply don't get to put your work on Tapas, promote it, try to get readers, and then respond to criticism by saying "But I'm not trying to entertain people! I'm just trying to have fun!" or "You're not allowed to not enjoy my comic because of the art, you have to only perceive the story!" You can't instruct readers on how they're allowed to engage with your work; the way you control how readers experience your work is in how you write, present and draw it. If they're not coming away with the right impression, and that's upsetting you, either don't show your work to the general public if entertaining a wide audience isn't what you're interested in, or make changes to the art, writing and presentation until people consistently seem to get what you're going for.

candiedcotton 2023-03-07 08:15:29 UTC #45

candiedcotton 2023-03-07 08:16:30 UTC #46

@darthmongoose FYI you and everyone else are 100% welcome to critique my work any time. For me it's an absolute honor.

Avonguardian 2023-03-07 09:34:13 UTC #47

I'll admit I retitled that title like a hundred times because I wasn't sure exactly how to convey what I meant to say in this post without sound like criticism is bad haha.

I think most people agree here that the art and the writing are largely intertwined in comics, as well as technical skill in formatting the comic itself. Making comics is very much a jack of all trades situation I think.

I am a chronic overthinker but also I really enjoy various ideas of what people think about different subjects, I often wanna dig deep into the psychology of why people do what they do and how criticisms can affect people differently.

Avonguardian 2023-03-07 09:39:23 UTC #48

This is a perfect point about what I was talking about, I think theres this idea of the "grind never stops" that can lead to alot of artists getting burnt out. A comic page is often viewed for a few seconds as a reader reads the bubbles and observes what the character is doing, so often the "bad anatomy" can be hidden by other interesting visuals. Work smarter not harder.

Avonguardian 2023-03-07 09:43:21 UTC #49

As someone whos gone to art school my whole life since I was 15 I've recieved all kinds of criticism and learned how to both recieve and give criticism.

I did not at all mean to call you out hahah, I've been dwelling on this for a few weeks and decided to toss this out to see what other people think and to maybe cure my "tunnel vision" in art.

Avonguardian 2023-03-07 09:53:07 UTC #50

This was so long and thoughful! I def think theres a major difference between critique from readers, vs from professionals/other creators.

This made me chuckle, I think I've said something similar to my partner who responded with "I'll only point it out if it makes no sense" I think it's like a shield, they want the critique but want it to be as impersonal as possible, as to not get their feelings hurt. Which is understandable if you are a novice and are just starting out, you don't want that spark to run out.

Fantastic read, you are welcome to give me any critique any time xD But first you have to read my mind so you don't say anything I havent already thought of /JK

candiedcotton 2023-03-07 10:04:45 UTC #51

Man, you'd be surprised how many folks who've had the opportunity to practically live in professional art classes, just can't take critique at all. But yeah, some people can handle it, some can't. I do think, though, that you can often tell the difference, because people who can accept critique and earnestly are willing to learn and use it, tend to progress farther (even if at different paces) than people who can't handle it. Hell, I'd say most of my improvement over the ages has been due to good critique I've received.

Especially from professionals in the field. I had the pleasure of befriending a guy who's kinda popular for his classes, Mike Mattessi. This was a number of years ago where I obsessively frequented an art forum and I think he took pity on my dire want to learn, but total lack of any proper education. He taught me more in a few months than I had learned in years, and it was all due to his fantastic critique. Getting free critique is like being given gold. People put their time and, often, skills they've paid for themselves, to teach others for free. That's a really precious resource to me.

Avonguardian 2023-03-07 10:26:51 UTC #52

Thats such a wholesome way of thinking, that a critique shouldnt be seen as a negative but an opportunity for a free mini art class xDD

I think some people (a little bit of myself too) feels that if someone critiques their art it means that the weeks and months of the crumb of pride you feel for the art you've made is "complete shit" and you need to start over from scratch and flee the country and make a new identity. Or that you need to conform to a specific standard of art, when in truth its more about honing your version of art.

I think to me to have art that doesnt always conform, to me, to be ugly is to be free and I think that people -while maybe a bit niche- might appreciate that. But that might be due to me being a bit punk in my mindset xD

Katzalcoatl 2023-03-07 10:40:31 UTC #53

We can always improve but it is also true that we sometimes get to a point in our art (be it writing or drawing) that we aren't looking for criticism.
Not because we don't want to improve but instead we are doing our art the way we like it, for ourselves.

If you do something on purpose because that's how you like it I see no reason to look for criticism. On the other hand, if you feel like your art/story is not up to your standard you can always ask for criticism.

Avonguardian 2023-03-07 10:43:18 UTC #54

Beautifully said, honestly.

moontokkym 2023-03-10 23:12:05 UTC #55

I think what your perspective is missing is that good art will multiply what is good in your story, this isn't an either or situation, it's just what makes art good in a comic is not the same as what makes art good in an illustration.

You can be a really really good illustrator but not be the best comic artist and vice versa. The art in a comic doesn't have to be beautiful, but it does have to be impactful, otherwise the story beats and emotional moments will fall flat no matter how good your story is, and a lot of that comes down to the same stuff you have to think about for films: camera angles, colour palettes, length and format of scenes and shots (in comic books being how many vignettes per page, size, number of speech bubbles, etc...), when you put your wide shot vs when you put your hyper close up. Like if you look at Attack on Titan for example, the drawing is bad, like laughably bad, anatomy is all over the place, characters are unrecognisable between scenes, the author decided to put them in uniforms which makes working out who is who worse, perspective only gets good when the assistants start doing it, it's a mess... But he's really really good at creating strong moments, not being scared to do the difficult angle because narratively it's needed, getting the money shot on the page turn, creating suspenseful rythm in the page, and that's what gets you hooked on the story in the beginning, the art serves the story and what needs to be good is good.

You're also allowed to not want to be critiqued, if you're doing this for fun, you don't really care about improving your art, this is just a hobby that you don't want to think about too much, that's also totally fine and a lot of people in the art world tend to forget that not everyone wants to be an artist, they just want to have fun with scribbles so a lot of people critique like the base goal is to improve. Like, I like sculpting as a hobby, I'm not good at it, but I like doing it and I don't need critique on it because i'm not trying to make something good I'm trying to have fun making my misshapen cat.

However if you do want to improve, and you do want to make good art, being critiqued and also getting used to taking critique and incorporating it into your work is kind of a must, because there will always be people who know more than you about what you want to get good at. Shutting yourself off from that because you think you know everything anyone could say to you about your art is kind of assuming you have no blind spots, which is always dangerous.

TL;DR: if you just want to make comics to have something to do that you like doing, critique is not necessary, if you want to improve and/or learn about the art of comic book making and/or make a good comic book, critique is vital. Really depends on your goal here.

rajillustration 2023-03-11 00:23:41 UTC #56

I see it like you can do work in a vaccuum and put on the blinders and just draw for yourself and will naturally improve over time. Which is fine! This is honestly how I see most artists who are like under the age of like 17 who post online, like I really think...they should just keep drawing and getting used to using digital tools. A lot of them are really not ready for detailed feedback, and it would probably just make them quit drawing to get a mean comment because high school sure be like that.

BUT if you want to improve really, really quickly, then that is what asking for help is for. That's what a critique is, or at least, that's how I mentally prepare myself for them. Like in art classes I improved SO much and part of that was hard work and competition, but I would not have advanced so quickly if there was no feedback.

And that goes for more than art. Right now I'm having to re-strategize my social media content (again, freakin again) and I realized, I could keep hitting this wall because I don't really know what I'm doing, and I will eventually figure it out. Or I could just ask for advice from people who know better than I do and probably save like 5 years of struggle by reaching out and looking at my own work without my ego attached to it and assigning a sunk cost fallacy to it of "but I've spent TIME on this, so it must be good".

And that 5 years is not an exaggeration, getting that advice can save you literal years of your life. Same is true for webcomics. If you are hitting a wall, and you're like "I'm not growing, I don't get it, I'm frustrated." that's when you have the choice to ignore it and continue to hit that wall until you eventually improve over time, or to seek out an expert to get a critique so you can make a strategic plan to fix your work. Does that mean you should follow all the critique you get? No, some critiquers come up with real bonkers edeas, but you don't have to tell your reviewer that, because that would be rude. Does that mean you have to be open to unsolicited critique? No. But like I've asked for feedback in discords and here on the forum and got great advice that helped a ton with my growth.

And like if you're not in the right mental headspace, it can be really good to have a friend that you trust read your comments or read your critiques so that way they can filter it for you in a more gentle way. Especially if you have a comment section that has lost it's freakin mind.

system 2023-04-10 00:23:58 UTC #57

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