Solutions for the empty sub culture (poll)

[Dysis]

Ah, that's a major problem too. Gotta think of how to solve that one.

[pilot-obvious]

I think I'm about to run into this problem with my webcomic. I was recently featured on the front page (which I am super grateful for!!!) and gained about 130 subscribers, almost none of which interacted with the webcomic in any other way. I'm concerned that they'll just be ghost subscribers and in the end it will hurt my engagement.

I'm also guilty of this myself. I currently have 27 or so notifications of webcomics that have updated that I haven't looked at... and I'm essentially a ghost subscriber for those! I like the idea of bookmarking a series so that I don't ruin their engagement. This thread has encouraged me to be more proactive from here on out!

[Dysis]

Yes, the popularity of a story depends on the interaction to sub ratio. The more empty subs one has, the lower their story will be on the popular/trending lists.

It's actually beneficial for you if you have less subs.

[domisotto]

You can't solve it. They should stop punishing writers for having people willing to keep their books in the library. It is driven by the fear of the sub-trading that links into monetizing, but, of course, it hurts the most the small accounts that cannot grow because their fiction gets sunk by the ratio.

Like, every book has its sub cap... I just believe in that.

[Dysis]

All completed stories should be shifted to the binge section, and their popularity rankings should have an algorithm that is based on the sub to interaction ratio after it is enrolled in the binge section. That way, all the completed stories will be on equal grounds for the 'aftermath' interactions. (I mean, after their stories are complete)

What do you think?

[cherrystark]

I'm the same way when it comes to my reading habits and as an author. I'm happier, in theory, seeing the periodic burst of 5,10, 15+ reads, and the occasional subscriber than getting ten subs at once and no reads.

[cherrystark]

All completed stories should be shifted to the binge section, and their popularity rankings should have an algorithm that is based on the sub to interaction ratio after it is enrolled in the binge section. That way, all the completed stories will be on equal grounds for the 'aftermath' interactions. (I mean, after their stories are complete)

My series has been one of the top stories in every category, except binge, in sci-fi and it's no where near finished. I think the popularity rankings might have more to do with overall engagement that actual subs. I am relatively low on the subscriber count but I have a lot of readers that come back to read my stuff.

[Dysis]

Yes, it doesn't depend on subs. Many of us need to realise that

Ah, you mean the subs shouldn't be the determining factor in rankings of the binge section?

[jcmraz]

Also, Don't Do Sub for Sub. Unless you actually both like each others' work of course.
lol always wanted to do that clapping thing that people do. Additionally, engaging is helpful. Talking to people in places actively and asking for honest feedback helps. I really have no clue what percentage of my subs are active because I get way more views than I have subs per upload because I advertise pretty extensively on updates. Not everyone likes and comments but I mean, I don't either on things I read much. What I would really love is to bring up engagement on my facebook group too. And just keep putting along. Regular, predictable content is one of the most valuable things to maintaining a readership. Don't try to do more than you can. Find out how long it takes you and then give yourself a regular update a little longer than that so you have room. I update biweekly so it's slow going but I've only missed 2 updates since I started almost 2 years ago and those were because I had a baby in that time. I even posted a little sketch on one of the missed updates to let everyone that wasn't following my other social medias what was up.

[cherrystark]

Ah, you mean the subs shouldn't be the determining factor in rankings of the binge section?

Yep. It's a tough thing to judge for sure. I've read stories in my same genre that have x3 as many subs as I do but our read/like counts are almost the same. I can't say my work is better or worse than theirs's, it's really subjective to what people like and want to keep reading.

[Dysis]

Hear me out on this one:
@cherrystark
@domisotto

1. I believe the interaction/sub algorithm works because it keeps the sub to sub culture away. It's as if Tapas anticipated this empty dealings and tried to put a stop to it.

2. So, as long as interactions follow and empty subs are minimised, it's mostly up to the author to raise the popularity of their work. Interact with others, use facebook as @jcmraz mentioned, update regularly, use snippets when not updating to keep the engagement. Things can proceed like it always has been, the only thing is we gotta be more vigilant about the empty subs.

3. Now, you've gathered a following, your story has ended. It's moved to the binge section. At this point, whatever likes your story amounted, divide it by number of episodes and you'll get the likes/ episode. The higher it is, the higher is the placement of your story in the binge section.

4. Once, all completed stories are shifted there, the author-reader interaction will follow the same way as it had when you were making the story: facebook, snippets and reading each other's works. Or, if you don't want to engage, the popularity (likes per chapter) is already a good standing to get your readers to automatically click your story at a later date.

What do you think, guys?

Edit: That's just an idea. To simply change the algorithm would be impractical (Tapas won't simply see this and do it). The most we, as readers, can do is to avoid the empty subs.

[Iris-Grimoire]

You guys don't like bomb every series you're reading? C'mon, it's a nice gesture! I only do empty subs when I'm in a real hurry and can't read any at that time, but I try to return to it ASAP.

The best you can do is the same method people are forced to do on Youtube - every now and then, ask for people to leave a like, ask questions in the description so people will have an incentive to post, ask for them to share it around on social media.

Unfortunately, Webtoon created a culture where people just consume content and run. You can't change everyone and trying to force people to change only turns them away, so gotta try and catch the view that just forgot or are in a hurry.

[domisotto]

Honestly, i would prefer the far, far simpler system:

1. Person subs for the book.

2. Engagement counts on how much they open the book, view the book, anything. I don’t feel that likes or comments should be weighed higher than views. The views on later chapters should weigh progressively more than the early chapter views

3. If person doesn’t touch the book for longer than 90 days, they are auto-unsubbed, but the book drops into their For Later book shelf that has no bearing on the author’s stats

4. A new button, Completed, appears on the last chapter of each book, that can be selected by the reader after the author marked the book as completed status. That‘ s the button used to rank Completed novels in binge

[Dysis]

Brilliant! Can we tag the tapas team please?

If you guys agree to this, please lemme know. I don't wanna tag them with zero support and be the scapegoat lolol

@Iris-Grimoire I wish I could leave a like on your post. Unfortunately, I've run out of likes.

@crownovels
@sxxaint
@cleo_san
@kennielacroix
@skicoak
@domisotto

The poll is up! You may post your decisions on the poll. It's anonymous to avoid reader conflict.

[Dane_Sherbet]

That's kind of how online communities are though. Only a tiny percentage actually participate, the rest just lurk.

When did we get so obsessed with numbers.

[Iris-Grimoire]

It's unfortunately mostly out of their hands since, again, it's something Webtoon creates, and they're riding the wave and not making it. But we can always make a list of promotion/discovery suggestions to incentivize readers to interact and not just sub, and send it over to Ratique and crew!

[Dysis]

Could you please elaborate? I didn't understand the promotion/discovery part.

[Iris-Grimoire]

I've seen people use "discovery" to talk about how a site can make people read newly posted content without being linked from it elsewhere(promoting it elsewhere, then). Basically, instead of the features on the frontpage just showing the curated/trending works with their covers and genres, some way to also nudge the reader to interact with the work then and there instead of later.

I think Tapas' easter events do something along those lines already, for example, though it's exclusive to Premium and Early Acess comics. You need to read through the start of each series for the easter egg, then like and answer and the question in the comments to enter the drawing. It's not too much of an incentive to keep reading and liking though, a lot of people probably just skim through.

[Dysis]

You mean a separate section for the 'newly published' work?

[domisotto]

They said that Ernest Rutherford, the famous scientist, waited to pave the pathways in his brand new facility for a few weeks, until the staff made their own trails through the grass. Then he just ordered those trails to be paved.

Instead of forcing people to do what they do not want to do, the most successful way is to simply follow and acknowledge what they want to do: read quietly. Silent readers that do not interact is what carries writers, and always did, before internet... yes, we've had an era of voracious engagement, but it is over. We returned to the old pathways.

And one doesn't get a popularity, true popularity, without the majority being silent readers who do not engage. (Sigh) And yet algorithms still over-value engagement.