Stories that Shouldn't Keep Getting Retold

cherrystark 2021-08-11 17:27:37 UTC #50

Scooby Doo gets better with age. And now they are starting to do more crossovers with established DCEU characters, so the world keeps growing!

_calm 2021-08-11 18:11:49 UTC #51

Stories like

Any Marvel Movie. Might be a controversial opinion but I've fallen out of love with Superhero films in general, they are waaaaayy too predictable and all follow the same formula. Even their humor gets old quick, especially Marvel.

Also, generic zombie apocalypse and chosen one stories.

(The easiest way to fix the zombie apocalypse and chosen one narratives is to play around with stakes and tricking the audience!)

DokiDokiTsuna 2021-08-11 18:19:20 UTC #52

(in b4 this becomes another trope-hating topic)

This is more in the context of video games, but I'm kind of tired of always being thrown into a 'world on the brink of collapse', a 'dying world', 'a world in decay', etc. Basically 'post-apocalyptic but not quite, because we still want NPCs around and stuff.'

I know it's easy set up for showing the player why the big evil "darkness" has to be defeated, and for having monsters around as a fact of life, but it's just been done to death and beyond and I want to see other stuff.

I think one easy fix would just be to let the player watch the world die, so they actually have a chance to get invested in its fate instead of simply being told to care 'bcuz video game said so'. A good example would be Mother 3, and I guess maybe Half-Life, sorta (the exponential acceleration of 'world death' between 1 and 2 kinda obscures the effect, but I feel like it's still there).

...Although when I say 'easy' I mean with minimal alteration to the original concept (you'd basically just tack on a prologue), not necessarily easy to do. ^^; I mean, in terms of gamedev that'd be a whole extra sprite set at the very least...

therosesword 2021-08-11 19:41:37 UTC #53

Okay, I know I said something earlier but all this retelling.

Why? @cherrystark and I have done theatre, she still does it, I switched to just writing. All this retelling, it's like reimagining Oklahoma in Mongolia.

We used to have a guy in my city who would "retell" Shakespeare. No, he would do the play, but put it in a different setting. Sometimes it can work. Sometimes it fails miserably. (MacBeth as a western) Well, actually it fails quite miserably a lot of times.

But, WHY retell it? I personally, would love to see Hamlet live and not die, but I'm not going to retell the story the way I want to do it. Why? Because I have so many characters in my brain screaming for attention I'm fairly sure they'll mutiny and I'll end up in an asylum some place. And frankly, Hamlet is pretty darn perfect the way it is.

I suppose I can say that I might be able to see retelling something if, say, it's been 50 years since someone told the story of.... whatever. Okay, bring it up to date if you want to, I suppose that could work. But, how many Great Gatsby's is humanity going to be inundated with?.

Why? Why do this?

We're all authors here. Do you really want your story retold by someone who thinks they can do it better, or the fact that you killed off a character, they'll make them live? I sure don't. I've spent months creating a character and a situation and an ending and some dufus comes along and says, "I can do this better."

I don't mind fanfiction if it's a new story but if the person writing it thinks they're way better than the person who came up with the story in the first place I have a phrase I like to say to people like that. "Long walk, short pier. Please do it."

When someone says they're doing a retelling of something my first thought is: lack of originality and talent. (which was proven in the latest Henry VIII/Anne Boleyn piece of strangeness I burned my retinas on.)

But, my objection is a lonely little weed in an acre sized, over cared for American lawn.

sigh.

HGohwell 2021-08-11 20:02:03 UTC #54

I think this is the most important thing about retellings and reboots and franchises ect is why? Are you genuinely using the base to try and tell and interesting story or do you just want the name?

Like, at least fanfic authors are usually honest about that when they rewrite the original piece they say "I love the series but this particular thing frustrated me so I want to write it my way" and the amount of fanfic writers I've seen acknowledge they understand why something was chosen narratively but just didn't gel with it is impressive.

While "original" writers doing "this take" have this habit of saying they're improving or doing the definitive take. And while I hate to be that guy who yells at the screen about historical accuracy, if you're doing a piece based on an actual historical figure, why not be accurate??? Like how much do these recent retellings of things actually pay attention to the original or did you just want a name people would recognise to get them to watch your show? At least the new Discworld thing had the decency to call itself simply "inspired by" Discworld rather than pretend to be a proper adaption or retelling.

Going back to the OP example, there are some really cool things that can be done with Beauty and the Beast (like the ramifications of turning everyone into furniture, they probably had family and friends and didn't anyone notice an entire castle/chateau worth of people just vanishing and that's ignoring the implications of he's been cursed for 10 years and needs to find love by 21, you cursed an 11yo, witch wtf??? also who was letting an 11yo throw parties where were his parents, curse them???) but they don't look at that. They just want to rehash the love story and a name people recognise and a lose idea they can play with.

annaportia 2021-08-14 10:05:53 UTC #55

That is so true! That was the next overdone trope/story on my list!!

TL_Nonoke 2021-08-14 20:41:14 UTC #56

THIS comment. THANK YOU....anyone who can't tell that there's something super dark about a smoking catepillar talking pipe dream to a kid is well...HUM.

Stargazer31 2021-08-14 20:48:51 UTC #57

Frankly, I've always wanted to write a parody of YA dystopia with all the clichés (society divided into groups, love triangle, "plain" protagonist, secret rebels that are just as bad as evil government) but instead of dividing society up according to jobs or whatever, you're divided up depending on your results on a "What member of The Beatles are you?" quotev quiz that was made on 2011.

Breezy 2021-08-16 19:02:50 UTC #58

Uh...
Warm Bodies
West Side Story
Gnomeo and Juliet
Titanic
Shakespeare in Love
The Notebook
Pocahontas
The Namesake
South Pacific
The Vampire Diaries
Star Wars
The Illusionist
Aida

And that's just the list of movies that are pretty well accepted to be Romeo and Juliet inspired and are generally considered "good".

Whether Romeo and Juliet "should" or "shouldn't" be retold, it is ubiquitous in our culture and practically synonymous with star-crossed lovers and death. It is inescapable as a retelling and I'm personally a-ok with that. Maybe some people are tired of it, but I'm here for some good old fashioned "we can't be together" drama.

cherrystark 2021-08-16 19:51:56 UTC #59

But I think you hit on a good point about presentation. West Side Story isn't good because it has great music. It also explores themes of racism, hatred, and gang violence. I think if your story explores multiple angles, it works. If you take the superficial angle, I can see where it can be annoying.

TheBluester 2021-08-16 23:02:57 UTC #60

Oh my God, I thought no one else knew about Warm Bodies-

It really is a good film that (In my opinion) does the Romeo and Juliet trope really well! Plus, the movie touches upon the beloved topic of Zombie Apocalypses alongside it so that's a bonus feature as well! Not to mention, the male mc is absolutely adorable to witness ^o^

Breezy 2021-08-16 23:05:08 UTC #61

I agree. It's a great movie. Plus it sort of spins the whole Romeo and Juliet dying trope on its head by having the main character come back to life. Genius.

LadyLily 2021-08-16 23:10:54 UTC #62

As a HUGE Batman fan, I wholeheartedly agree! I like fanfics (I wrote a short one lol), but tired of the "professional" movies/shows. Hollywood has no originality anymore. I watch K and C Dramas now because I hate Hollywood so much lol.

LadyLily 2021-08-16 23:21:04 UTC #63

THANK YOU! This is why I hate reboots with a passion. Go find your own ideas and quit "reimagining" something someone else wrote from their heart and soul. If I want a character dead, chances are their death is part of the bigger picture that you're just not getting.

Sadly, in today's world, if a plot line or character arc or any number of situations important to the story isn't changed to cater to the minority of complainers (who, let's face it, probably aren't even going to read the whole thing), authors can get cancelled and lose sponsorship and potential fans.

I just want people to understand if they don't like something, they don't have to read it. They can simply accept it isn't their cup of tea and move on without ruining the hard work authors shed blood, sweat, and tears over for months, even years.

cherrystark 2021-08-16 23:53:10 UTC #64

Watch Superpower Beatdown on YouTube. They are the superhero movies we deserve.

KennethLopezJr921 2021-08-17 19:20:50 UTC #65

The "It's a wonderful life" homage, where the mc wishes they were never born because of how terrible their day went and them being transported to a world where they were never born and they realize how terrible it would be if they never existed. I get that the point of the story is for the mc to appreciate how important they are and stuff and that's a classic Christmas story but it feel overdone. I think I've seen more "its a wonderful life" plots than I have the original movie. And the annoyance with this plot didn't come recently, even as a kid I never liked it because of how melodramatically it's executed. Not to say you can't make something good out of that plot but I just want to see something different whenever a tv show has a Christmas special. Because it's just as overdone as the "Christmas Carole" plot but even then, I sorta prefer it over the "it's a wonderful life" plot

RosesnWater 2021-08-19 14:35:29 UTC #66

Since Beauty and the Beast was mentioned in the first post I'll just stick my nose in it by saying that retellings of Disney's version is a great way to stick yourself in a box that's hard to move around in. Kind of like @HGohwell mentioned with exploring the answers to some of the questions of the movie, I think it's neat when you get little twists in the story like what if Belle's mom was the enchantress, or the Beast was actually a child when he was cursed, but it's already got its own world building and characters fully flushed out so there's not much to establish an explore if you stick to canon material.

On the other hand, Classic old fairytales are really fun to adapt because so much of the character motivation is left unsaid (at least for most of the stories, Villeneuve's version of Beauty and the Beast had dialogue and character thoughts so realistically these are established characters) but for many of the random fairytales out there, there's a lot to reimagine. And I'm not even just talking about the well known ones, like 'three snake leaves' is super weird about a guy who promised to die with his wife but then instead when it happens he brings her back to life but she turns 'evil', the original story paints the guy as the hero, but if you imagine it from the wife's perspective he kind of look like a real creep. There's so much potential to uncover there. Or the singing bone, or the white hind, where a girl is cursed to turn into a deer if sunlight ever touches her and her love interest hunts her through the forest (can't remember how that ends but yah there's so much to explore and imagine for these archetypes.

There's something to be said for not doing a story to death but speaking as one of those people who definitely has jumped on one of the classics to redo them, my only answer is because I really wanted to see some interactions I haven't personally explored before as well as to mold the 'Beauty' and 'Beast' archetypes into my own versions. There are literally SO many adaptations of this story and I definitely do not blame people for getting frustrated with it, for me there's just something that speaks to me at the core of the narrative

cherrystark 2021-08-19 15:33:50 UTC #67

I agree. I don't mind fairytale adaptations if you explore other themes and angles in the story. In Robin McKinley's adaptations, she stays "fairly" close to the original where Belle is the youngest daughter with two beautiful sisters. Instead of relying on the standard "we hate her because she's beautiful" - the sisters ralley together as a family to build a life together after their father looses everything. Belle's father doesn't "sell" her to the Beast. She goes out of love for her father. Beast insists that Belle be treated as the lady of the house. I remember watching a Christian version of Beauty and the Beast that focused more on forgiveness and healing than the Disney tropes.

One Cinderella version I liked, the stepfamily wasn't evil. They had no idea that Ella was family. Her father was a jerk who had no interest in being a parent after his first wife died. When he remarried, he never mentioned his daughter, so when the stepfamily meets her - they assume she's a servant. But the moment, the stepmother realises that Ella is her stepdaughter, she immediately "adopts" her as another daughter. Together, the four women's skills were all used to stop an impending coupe in their country.

I don't think there is anything wrong or "bad" about doing fairytale retellings. But be creative. Tell the story from a different perspective, explore different themes. Don't tell me the same story about a "pop star" prince falling in love with an overworked girl whose only talent is being "nice". Or a story about an "average" yet "broken" girl in a weirdly abusive relationship with her "beast".

DesiredUsernameTaken 2021-08-19 15:48:51 UTC #68

Oof. This one! My friends managed to convince me to watch the Marvel films. They were okay with me hate-watching it, so I thought, okay, why not. I tried to go into it with an open mind, knowing they're mostly "for fun" movies. Lo and behold, I was correct that I wouldn't like any of them. All of the humor is the same, almost no character can be differentiated by their lines to me. I think my biggest issue is that superhero films, the way Marvel does them, are like Disney fairytales, but with guns and explosions so that it's "cool enough for adults".

I don't want things to be dark, per se. Positive outcomes are realistic, too. But something about Marvel's superhero movies with their hubris and their half-hearted morals really rubs me the wrong way. Not everything about them is bad though, and it's honestly really impressive how they've connected all of the movies despite not having much time to work on each one, while working with the restraints they do. I can see why people like them.

Warm Bodies was such an interesting twist on the age-old love story! Gnomeo and Juliet was cute.

As for your last part about Romeo and Juliet (because for some reason, the site is bugging out and not letting me quote!), I agree completely. Romeo and Juliet itself is a retelling! Shakespeare didn't have any original stories from what I remember, but he polished old ones and made it work through beautiful language and craftsmanship.

DesiredUsernameTaken 2021-08-19 16:05:33 UTC #69

I've been spying on this thread for awhile, trying to think of an answer, and I honestly can't think of any stories that shouldn't be told, for the reasons you and many others have touched on.

That all stories can be boiled down to different "foundation layers", but it's how you tweak the layers that matters. Even more controversial ones have nothing wrong with them on a foundational level.

Beauty and the Beast retellings can be abusive, and not only dismissive of the abuse but unaware it's there at all.

But they can also be really sweet, and be an age-old lesson about seeing through one's outer appearance, to the beauty inside, or about how ugliness can hide on the inside of the prettiest exteriors. Especially in Western cultures, this is a lesson we still have yet to learn as a whole.

All of these things are part of the layers that can be tweaked because the foundation itself is a neutral playground. I can't think of any stories that shouldn't be told. I can't even think of any tropes that shouldn't be told, because again, they're neutral until executed wonderfully, or poorly.

There are however elements to a story that I dare say shouldn't keep getting retold. Things I think help perpetuate the most harmful things about our cultures, our society, etc. But that gets really hard, because on one hand, shouldn't every be free to write exactly what they want? Or is it a situation that should be more along the lines of, "Yes, write what you want! But if it's harmful, please don't share it." I don't know.

Summary

Edit: It's also important to note that even if the story at its roots are the same, a the first of a tale may not be what gets the message across to people.

For example, let's say we have Original Story. It's exposed to 6 people. It reaches Individual 6 but the rest didn't get it. Then there's Retelling 1, which doesn't get to Individual 1 and 3, but it does to Individual 2, 4, and 5. Then Retelling 2 gets Individual 3, and does nothing for Individual 1. Retelling 10, only a little different however, actually reaches Individual 1.

There are things I've see and read where I felt it was vapid, but someone else has a beautiful takeaway from it, some of which they may even feel is life-changing, while the things I felt were truly impactful flies over their head the way their preferred execution flew over mine. And that's why I see value in retellings.