Surprise LGBT characters

[saintc]

Every f ing book is a NYT best seller, you a marketing person should know that title is meaningless and just there to make a buzzword

70% of writers never earn out their advance.

If you earn out your advance (break even) you are a success. You've been speaking to me, but you seem to know nothing about the industry you engage in. Do you know how any of this works?

[saintc]

"Also no knows the books in the best sellers list"

Just says "I don't read" in capital letters, not that those books are not successful.

[IdiotWithPencil]

That has to do with the product being terrible, less so the fact that it's a copy.

well it's a commond denominator isin't it?, you try following or copying the OG expecting to make a profit

The early 2000s had about a billion cop shows like CSI and Law & Order, some of which are still going. Some of which burned out fast.

yeah but Lw and order=/=CSI and CSI was all made by the same studio and writers so it's basically like a series of anthological books by the same writer in the same univers. Also, most cop shows where very different from each other except that they were about cops. Cops show is more agenre with troupes if you get one that copies another too closly then you can say they are ripping off or copying the OG one.

You're only comparing megahits to their exact competition in some kind of bubble, but these examples count, right??

sure they do, though the ones you are refering to are more diffrent from eachother than their copied counterparts.
also Ragnarock was aping GoG so check and copare those movies if you want to see if the copie truly beat the OG.
and wonder woman we will have to see if copiying ragnarock works

[IdiotWithPencil]

70% of writers never earn out their advance.

If you earn out your advance (break even) you are a success. You've been speaking to me, but you seem to know nothing about the industry you engage in. Do you know how any of this works?

you are basically admiting that if I have 1 dollar of profit I'm the same as JKR or any other NYT best seller regarless of how much I made.

Also how much do you need to break even since you seem to know?
is it 100 sold books? 1k? 100k? 1M? what is the number you have to hit if you want to be in the NYT BS list?
cause seriously I see that title everywhere I go

[KRWright]

Being trans isn't an orientation you can come out

It is something you can come out as though, as if you choose to transition, eventually you do have to 'come out' to someone - even if it's only medical professionals.

it is literally unsafe for us to just come out over the course of most stories

It can be unsafe for people to come out in real life, but in fiction I'm not sure how it's unsafe for characters to come out as they aren't real. It could be dangerous to have transgender characters in your work, I suppose, but then it would be equally as dangerous to have LGB people in your work in general and would come down to it being a real life issue. I don't understand this point.

We rarely even tell people we are comfortable telling, unless you have to be an activist.

This isn't true 100% of the time. I have my identity on my profile, and I know others who are very upfront with their identities, trans or cis, in theirs as well. Sharing ones identity does not mean one is in activist, it just means one is 'out' usually. Which could be considered a political statement, but doesn't mean someone is marching in the streets and arranging trans cookouts.

T has nothing to do with the way people plot their stories romantically

Being trans has had a HUGE impact on my romantic life, my experiences with people and the world around me. There's definitely a space for that which intersects this.

as that is a medical path you go through to change the appearance of the sex you are born with. It's a medical thing.

Being trans isn't just a medical thing though. While taking hormones and surgery may be part of it for some people, it is not everyone's story. Insisting on medical transition to define trans experiences is exceptionally narrow and harmful, and it also minimises all kinds of social aspects of transition.

So that's why that might be here. Because it's far more complicated than you stated.

---

@KRWilliams Thanks for the resources. Your target may not have appreciated them, but as a nerd who likes to learn and grow, I sure did.

Unrelated but I really wanted to be a linguist in elementary school because I thought different languages were cool, although nothing ever came of it because I was too lazy to do more than look on in admiration. Sorry for being random, some memories just came back when you brought it up.

No problem! Hope you find them useful. PhilosophyTube is more philosophy than linguistics based (well, duh) but that one video goes into language and how it pertains to self and what words can mean in a philosophical sense - perfect for discussing art! It's a fantastic resource so I hope you'll enjoy it! (It's also his only musical lol and his coming out video - perfect for this thread probably).

[saintc]

you are basically admiting that if I have 1 dollar of profit I'm the same as JKR or any other NYT best seller regarless of how much I made.

Okay, I'm going to break it down to you.

Revenue - Cost of production = Profit.
$1 - $2 (price of pencil) = $-1.

This is you. You cannot make ridiculous comparations like this because CP is a thing. (Capital cost)

On a none ridiculous level. A self-published writer who has made $100,000 this year (romance writers do make this much) with a production cost of $5000 total is a success.

[saintc]

Also how much do you need to break even since you seem to know?

You should have googled break even. To break even you have to exceed Total cost of production (implicit [capital costs for instance] + explicit [wages etc]) to break even and start making profit.

E.G.

My laptop is $1200, my writing/editing software is $50, I pay $200 for a cover my TP is $1450.
I have to earn past $1450 to break even and start making a profit.

[IdiotWithPencil]

Revenue - Cost of production = Profit.$1 - $2 (price of pencil) = $-1.

my god have you read proyect validation and management yet? cause that proyect failed miserably

This is you. You cannot make ridiculous comparations like this because CP is a thing. (Capital cost)

yes I can I made 10001 in revenu and 10000 in pruduction cost=1 in profit hurray I'm JKR now

On a none ridiculous level. A self-published writer who has made $100,000 this year (romance writers do make this much) with a production cost of $5000 total is a success.

yes it is, and in your eyes so is somebody who made 1 dollar in revenue

again where is your threshold? how much profit is needed for a sucess? if any profit is a succes than 1 dollar is the same success as 1M dollars

[IdiotWithPencil]

You should have googled break even. To break even you have to exceed Total cost of production (implicit [capital costs for instance] + explicit [wages etc]) to break even and start making profit.

my god reading comprehension is lost on you isin't it

Also how much do you need to break even since you seem to know?is it 100 sold books? 1k? 100k? 1M? what is the number you have to hit if you want to be in the NYT BS list?cause seriously I see that title everywhere I go

I was talking about NYTBS list, how many books would you need to sell with NYT to be in the best seller list, they have they have a baseline cost called budget so how much is that budget and how many books would you have to sell to be in NYTBS list?

My laptop is $1200, my writing/editing software is $50, I pay $200 for a cover my TP is $1450.I have to earn past $1450 to break even and start making a profit.

so basically if you sell let's say a book at 10$ just for argument's sake you sell 150 books and hurray you are now a NYT best seller next to JK and all the other...

that's really is a low bar -_-

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

On one hand, stories not like other products in that they not interchangeable. On other hand, stories be interchangeable. Both can be true.

Stories are like dreams for groups of people. They arise out of societal needs and reflect elements of cultural experience. Every big event always followed by books and movies, and not just because topical things sell. They am way for society to digest said event. After every war, there am war stories. Vietnam gave us characters of Rambo and The Punisher as way of embodying stereotype of dangerous PTSD-riddled Vietnam vet. It interesting to note that to my knowledge this has remained consistent part of Frank Castle's backstory, with the consequence that he ages in real time while rest of Marvel Comics am stuck in comic-book time.

Anyway, in this sense stories am not interchangeable products. They arise out of specific circumstances and am received in specific circumstances. Whether success or failure, results am impossible to duplicate -- it like trying to step into same river twice. This explain why nobody has been able to duplicate success of Terminator 2, despite all the money thrown at the problem. Terminator-2-shaped-hole already filled by Terminator 2, thankyuvurrumuch.

At the same time, acceptable substitute for specific stories exist, otherwise genres would not exist. Cultural zeitgeist aside, people tend to like certain kinds of for their own personal reasons. The Witcher may not be perfectly-interchangeable with The Hobbit but fans of both see more similarities than differences.

[IdiotWithPencil]

my god this thread has gone way of topic =0

[saintc]

again where is your threshold? how much profit is needed for a sucess? if any profit is a succes than 1 dollar is the same success as 1M dollars

Then we need to talk about financing costs for continuation. (Google what financing means, and what this means in regards to businesses making sure they keep running.) This would apply to the company as a whole, not one product.

To me, a product has broken even and "earns its keep" is a success. (Earns its keep will refer to it meeting target margins, and they are different from product to product.) If someone is an entrepreneur and a $1 profit is good for them, that's good.

[TAMAnnoying]

Indubitably but that’s nothing new for this forum

[saintc]

I agree with you, though, I'm not a fan of the "put art on a pedestal" slant.
Very important things---things we need, are products and are marketed as products. Food, medicine etc.

Many of our favorite books today were "pop fiction" written for serialization. Written for money. A lot of books from this era were extremely long because authors were being paid by the word. Does the fact that they were commercial fiction make them any less "good"?

I don't think so.

[IdiotWithPencil]

If someone is an entrepreneur and a $1 profit is good for them, that's good.

ok then basically in your eyes all books in NYT are of the same quality as HP HG Got etc. Regarless of actual quality good to know 150 is the same as 500M in your eyes

Then we need to talk about financing costs for continuation.

it's called proyect validation and management where I come from I.E this proyect can only be succesfull if it brings back a minimum of 15% of the investment cost in profit. so in my eyes if you can't atleast compete with 15% of what the big guys a make (15% is basically the default of proyect validation) then sorry you aren't part of the big boys

that's why I was saying a copies will never be the next big thing cause they can never make the same as what they are copying. at least in the entertainment industry.

Also copy =/= inspiration just to kill that thing right now

[TAMAnnoying]

@saintc @IdiotWithPencil guys guys; tax session was last month. Chill with the money talk.

[IdiotWithPencil]

sorry, they where saying money talk and the conversation started heading into business from that XD
Edit: I think this has gone long enough I'm dropping this is tiring and we aren't seeing eye to eyes so I say agree to disagree and let's just move on

[saintc]

ok then basically in your eyes all books in NYT are of the same quality as HP HG Got etc. Regarless of actual quality good to know 150 is the same as 500M in your eyes

Profit does not dictate quality... Where did you pick this up from LOL.

it's called proyect validation and management where I come from I.E this proyect can only be succesfull if it brings back a minimum of 15% of the investment cost in profit. so in my eyes if you can't atleast compete with 15% of what the big guys a make (15% is basically the default of proyect validation) then sorry you aren't part of the big boys

This applies to companies as a whole as I mentioned. An animation studio, for instance, determining what product has earned its keep.

For entrepreneurs (or simple partnerships), the game changes a bit.

[saintc]

guys guys; tax session was last month. Chill with the money talk.

Lmao, I'm sorry! Don't worry.

[TAMAnnoying]

I just don’t want the thread to get so far away from the topic x3

I liked the mention of solider 66, I think when it comes to things like pvp games it’s fair to have your characters bring up their LGTB status in comics and books since it’s not gonna happen IN the pvp game, and anyone that complains about that might just be bias about the idea of representation.