The discord among the community

[skicoak]

@VibrantFox @SleepingPoppy

Did I miss something again?

Outside of the one banned individual, that's fundamentally all we have is disagreements...

Not vigilante posse mobs attacking every "iffy" collaboration call.

[SleepingPoppy]

Nah. I meant in relation to OP. Nothing bad or knew has happened. If you just mean regular typical disagreements, that's totally fine.

I also picture more hostility and negativity when I hear the word discord, so it's partly on me for that interpretation.

[VibrantFox]

I also picture more hostility and negativity when I hear the word discord, so it's partly on me for that interpretation.

same

that and it's at present after 3am so fatigue is altering the way I'm processing things

[LordVincent]

I don't see why we have to argue writers vs artists to begin with, especially not for the sake of these entitled brats who think they deserve someone else's services for free.

They don't deserve to be what divides us. They are entitled brats.

Writers and artists are creatives alike. You could extend creativity to acting, game programming, music, etc. At the end of the day they are just different mediums and tools we use to express ourselves and quite frequently you will find people in the industry who do multiple. Especially in industries that require multiple mediums. We shouldn't be fighting because the nature of our artforms is to overlap.

I feel like at this rate someone might pop out of the bushes saying we should build a great wall and make the other side pay for it o_o"

[skicoak]

I don't see why we have to argue writers vs artists to begin with, especially not for the sake of these entitled brats who think they deserve someone else's services for free.

Doesn't it always come back to the economics of the situation? The one's screaming FREE are just openly displaying a woeful ignorance but there ARE legitimate creators involved in these discussions with differing points of view on equitable fiscal terms.

I don't expect us to ever all agree on it. So it's going to keep popping up...repeatedly.

[BobbyjoeX]

oh frig, this is a doozy

the artists are so quick to jump to things, when i was at a low point (i am an artist myself and a VERY nerotic one at that). i figured i could ask for help with my comic. i have no money and i figured someone would be nice enough to volunteer since it woulda been no work at all (i donno, a fix up editor? a guide?... someone to keep me on track since i get easily destracted?) point is, i wasnt even asking, i asked how i should go along with asking since i word things wrong all the time. GUESS I DID IT AGAIN!

a bunch of other artists came on, basically told me i wanted slave labour, expecting things for free is a really c*nty thing to do and to go see a fucking therapist... I WAS ASKING FOR COMIC HELP, NOT FUCKING OFFING MYSELF!

pretty much, all they had to say was not interested, not fucking flood me with messages on how im a shitty fucking person

[LordVincent]

i figured i could ask for help with my comic. i have no money and i figured someone would be nice enough to volunteer since it woulda been no work at all (i donno, a fix up editor? a guide?... someone to keep me on track since i get easily destracted?

That's not "no work", that's an assistant job or mentor job.

a bunch of other artists came on, basically told me i wanted slave labour, expecting things for free is a really c*nty thing to do and to go see a fucking therapist

I mean yeah if you say you are "nerotic and easily distracted" then the last bit of this is a pretty accurate response. That's a therapist's job to help you with, not strangers online.

[SleepingPoppy]

I don't know if I missed a board since I'm not on here all the time, but the last one I saw you were very unclear about what help you wanted, if any. It was more of a rant, and you later mentioned wanting an assistant, as in similar to professional assistants a manga might have, which... is a lot of work.

And as I said then, it's not unreasonable to want that, but it would be unreasonable to expect it?

But it's possible you're refering to a different thread at a different time. Regardless I'm sorry you've been having a hard time.

[BobbyjoeX]

i was going to defend myself... but it isnt worth it. i knew what my plan to give back to the person in the end but i just learned its never ever ever ever ok, at all, to ask for help, despite a lot of people telling me it was

but i dnt want to start crying again because that day was a domino effect. i lost a lot that day after getting responses telling me i was stupid for even bothering to ask

[joannekwan]

Theoretically you could ask the readers/fans of your comic help you out? Not the art part, but editing and reminding you to stay on track. Then they have an incentive to help you produce a thing they enjoy.

[SleepingPoppy]

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for help, I mostly think you need to work on clarity when you ask. And there's nothing wrong with that.

If you couch a request for help inside a rant about no one helping you, that's not inviting. Be polite. Think out the request. And if someone is rude then it's 100% on that person for it.

And you know, maybe an assistant just isn't in the cards. That doesn't mean there isn't other help that can be given.

I certainly don't want you to cry or feel bad, nor do I want others to give you a hard time.

[JRHoch]

It was nice knowing you. Never attack the hive.

[BobbyjoeX]

ok last message before im finished with this convo

the point i was getting at wasnt my stupid help thread and how i never knew what i really needed help with to begin with

i was refering to the response, in my eyes the forum went fucking psycho on me for asking, what i was trying to say in the post i made here is how quick people are getting to jumping on people even if they have good intentions. i wasnt a hostile shitlord that would throw the person aside once they were nolonger needed, i was someone that wanted help and when i was back up from my low i would offer them my services on their comic as the payback

but again... the Forum jumped me like a hoards of vicious cats, and to make things worse, a discord server that made me confident to even ask to begin with was another set of feral cats waiting to fuck me up

also, i dont remember my post being a rant!

EDIT:
i think my issue is i always had problems seeing things as what they are, my mind is an enigma (milk carton falls over)

anyway i am starting to slowly remember... the forum was kind of being rude about it, but not to the extent i explained. i always mistook bluntness as a personal attack and it got me upset, the server was the "rabid cats" and when that happened it just crossed over into the forum like as if they also were involved in the cat fight

anyway, im done, someone told me to "stay off the forums"

[SleepingPoppy]

i was refering to the response, in my eyes the forum went fucking psycho on me for asking,

If we're talking about the same thread... they seemed more sarcastic than psycho? To me anyway. I'm not saying they were nice or anything.

But I get that you were trying to make a point about their response and don't want to focus on the help side. Sorry for shifting focus.

also, i dont remember my post being a rant!

You came across as very mad at people for not helping you in the original post, and offered no explanation until the follow up as to what kind of help you might hypothetically wanted.

That was how it looked to me, anyway. I'm just one person and my interpretation could be wrong!

Editing to add: just to be clear, my personal impression of you from the board was merely that you were frustrated, and nothing worse then that. I'm not characterizing it as a rant to be insulting or anything. (I don't know if it comes across as insulting, but can't hurt to specify)

[Rodimus13]

reads all these threads about discord between writers and artists

Me:.... hun are we mad at each other?
Thomas: About what?
Me: The forum art and writer thing
Thomas:.... noooooooo?
Me: We're not fighting?
Thomas: No... why are you mad?
Me: Nope. hugs Thanks for making the pretty pictures!
Thomas, very confused: hugs Ok... thanks for writing all the scripts.

And thus our writer/artist issues continue to do as well as your marriage (Sorry, felt like we needed a small chuckle. And yes Idid this to him right after he woke up)

[minerrale]

This. Exactly this.
It is completely possible to appreciate one another's talents, and work together. It is also completely possible to ask each other for help. And to create worlds. And to eat ice cream together. Yeah.
My stories wouldn't exist without amazing artists willing to help me out. I wrote comic scripts for free too. Because why not?
Discord isn't necessary between artists and writers, and most of the time there is actually a lot of love and respect in this community. So y'all, chill out and grab a banana. It's good for your health.

[BobbyjoeX]

nah, your good, i dont remember things well when im having a breakdown of some sort, it may have came off as ranty and from the edit i made about how i may have taken the forum as the rabid cats, they really werent. that was caused from bad memory with the server after the thread was shut down

[seru]

The discourse among the community of artists and writers really stems from time and money.

Everyone wants to get paid for their time. if you're the captain of the ship, make sure your crew is well fed and taken care of.

I want to write a long winded paragraph here but this topic has been debated, argued, blah blah almost beating a dead horse at this point.

Anyway,

To writers, put your money where your mouth is and pay the artist to materialize your work. TIME IS MONEY. No one is owed art. PERIODT. If you want drawn comic pages, PAY UP.

To artists, KNOW YOUR WORTH. Don't fall into the trap of no pay EVER!!!

I'm not sure if I said this before but....here it goes...

Success and making money off of comics are extremely RARE. Honestly, it's better to work at a minimum paying job than to do comics full-time, but us creatives do it for passion or we're just naturally masochistic.

[SleepingPoppy]

I think having a breakdown is a fair reason to not quite remember things clearly! And no worries. I hope you're doing better now, though.

[Delphonse]

This pops up every once and awhile. Usually people joking about writers begging for art all the time. As someone who has spent over 20k on art since starting comics I can say making money on comics is easy if you are focused on it and know what to do. If your not interested in really working to earn money on projects then you won't.

A lot of creators want to make money but dont know how to they hope a script or piece of art will open the door to money but it really comes down to crowd funding and building a social media following that you can turn into an email list. That is what will help a lot of people seeking to earn money.

As a writer myself I see the biggest problem that even I deal with is writers never have something to show artists when they seek help. They give a short snippet of what their story is about but never usually give any writing history so the artist knows their skills.

Artists can be that way sometimes too. Seeking help without posting their portfolio.

It's not a big problem but it can look unprofessional and make people trust you less.

And the important thing in all of this is trust. You need to trust the writer or artist is good on their promise.

I am rambling a bit and might be off topic but I figured I was bored and wanted to give my 2 cents.