Underwhelming masterpieces

[Mane]

This is a relevant viewpoint and I've noticed this as well. Popular works that invented a certain trope get copied and redone constantly, often adding their own twist and building upon the original premise.

My example: Romeo and Juliet. By the time I sat down to read the original I had seen countless iterations, modern interpretations and parodies of this story and my entire life it was hailed as THE love story.
"Huh, that's it?" was basically my reaction.

But here's the thing. The term 'classic' kinda implies it stands the test of time, so while historical context absolutely matters, it should remain at least a little relatable on its own I think.

[darthmongoose]

My example: Romeo and Juliette. By the time I sat down to read the original I had seen countless iterations, modern interpretations and parodies of this story and my entire life it was hailed as THE love story. "Huh, that's it?" was basically my reaction.

This one is a funny phenomenon because like... Romeo and Juliet isn't meant to be a Romance story. It's meant to be a tragedy. I find it utterly weird when people say "oh, it's so romantic!" like... it's about two kinda silly fifteen year olds who get obsessed with each other, come up with a terrible convoluted plan that goes wrong and then die. If their parents had just let them date, they almost certainly would have just broken up on their own when they got to know each other (heavily implied by how Romeo opens the play like "omg I love Rosaline so much I will never love anyone as much as I loved her!!, uh huh, sure. buddy.)

That said, I'd agree that Romeo and Juliet is not a great Shakespeare play compared to a lot of his later work. It's one of his very earliest plays and it's really scrappy and simple compared to things like Hamlet or Much Ado About Nothing, which are so much more polished.

[Mane]

The theme I was going for is 'things that are popular but didn't strike a chord with you' and not 'things that are popular and don't deserve to be'.

I'm actually happy with how people have expressed themselves and been respectful of others opinions, though I guess I didn't take into consideration some answers here might rub some readers the wrong way.

[Mane]

I just noticed how I spelled Juliet. Ooof.

Anyway, yes, it was meant to be a tragedy, and the message of "get over this feud before it's too late" kinda falls by the way side.

[Jophiel]

Yuri on Ice. I don't watch sports anime (i watched Free before but didn't get hooked) but watched it for Viktor then Yuri. I really can't remember much from watching it and the weeks of waiting for each episode felt just like watching it in one sitting.

Silent Voice for some reason? It's a bit personal to me though because of the bullying theme. I like the film but I feel mixed about the end of some sort. The MC's are alright but I didn't like the other characters at all since some of them participated/tolerated the MC's bullying in the past but it kinda made it looked like the MC did all the doing.

[Dane_Sherbet]

Still a little bit negative. I mean, it's certainly not a recommendation thread. I'm coming away with a bunch of new stories I need to try.

[Mane]

True, but it wasn't meant to be a recommendation thread. That some people manage to find things of interest is pretty neat though.

[Dane_Sherbet]

Positives out of the negatives you mean?

[Llyrel]

But here's the thing. The term 'classic' kinda implies it stands the test of time, so while historical context absolutely matters, it should remain at least a little relatable on it's own I think.

^This.

[Mane]

I guess. Again, I don't see that much negativity here, but then again, I've rarely ever taken criticism of things I personally liked to heart that much (there's actually quite a number of things that I am a fan of being brought up as examples in this very thread), especially if they were coming from a place of personal preferences. To each his own and all that jazz.

[Dane_Sherbet]

"I don't like X," is a negative statement. This is an entire thread full of such statements. It doesn't mean much to me, but I felt I should comment because I've been seeing too many discussions that focus on the negative.

It's easy to think that something's a problem. It's easy to hate something. The dark side of the emotional spectrum comes easily, and I don't know if we should dwell on it. So something didn't resonate with us. What does that mean? How is it useful? Where should we go from here?

[Daisy]

True. Yuri on Ice... I expected much from it to be honest. While there are some good aspects about the show, there are some disappointing factors that overwhelmed my enjoyment like the animation for the skating programs for example. Each programs were made by a group of animators which could have been a caused as to why the skating animation wasn't smooth, kind of lagged in a way but I guess time constraints was the reason for the groups to be made and as to why animation wasn't great. The romance was also underdeveloped. But the ost is beautiful especially yuri on ice, I used to listen for 1 or more hours version of it on youtube.

I think the movie feels flat. The animation was perfect as expected by kyoto animation though. I definitely agree with your opinion with the bullies becoming buddies with nishida and shouko. Especially the long dairk haired girl who was bold enough to corner shouko in a ferris wheel and tells her that she wasn't welcomed and opening up her animosity towards shouko. And other characters. It would've been great if nishida and shouko had a new set of friends rather than gaining friendship from people who weren't exactly kind to her from the past. Forgive and forget is a great lesson but with the way how the movie handled it (and possibly the manga because I only read the first volume), I am not so optimistic.

Still, I am glad the movie existed in the first place. It shows the struggles of people who are deaf to a wider audience.

[Llyrel]

Speaking from personal experience here... honestly, I think sometimes I learned more from stuff I did not like than from stuff I actually liked. Why, you may ask?

Because when I see something I don't like I always ask myself "fine, but WHAT is it that I don't like about this?" and then start thinking what I would do instead. Which isn't to say that I think I'm a "better" writer than Leo Tolstoy (just to mention an author I myself was criticizing earlier) or that I feel capable of writing the next War and Peace (lol, I wish :'D), but that knowing what I personally don't like in a work of fiction can provide great food for thought when it comes to my own writing and how to treat certain themes. For example, I didn't like how Tolstoy would make a bunch of characters disappear with no closure at all and, knowing how disappointed I was with that, I know that I'm trying my best to avoid doing a similar thing in my own story, since it's also gonna feature a bunch of characters. With stuff I like I usually tend to go into "oh, well, it's a masterpiece, I love everything about it, damn, I'll never write anything as good as this" and that's pretty much it. Sometimes I find myself taking inspiration from works I like, but I always feel like a "cheater", like I'm stealing from someone who already did the thing much better than me. That isn't really the case when I'm dealing with works I don't like, because, instead of "imitating" them, I'm trying to do something different. In a way, both manage to inspire me, but works I don't like usually give me that additional spark of creativity to actually change things up.

Besides, saying "I don't like X" is wildly different than "hating" on something. There's a difference between criticism and unjustified hate, and so far I've seen none of the latter in this thread. Everyone has been listing the reasons why they don't like a certain work and even when their motivation was simply "it didn't resonate with me" they were still polite about it and never attacked anyone else for having a different opinion.

[JRHoch]

Well, you're a new face here!

I find as I get older, less and less impresses me. Even my food doesn't taste as good--except pizza.

[Mane]

I share your concern regarding a lot of negativity being flung around with too much ease, but people's musing on how some mainstream or widely-accepted works are not their cup of tea is not inherently a bad thing.

Personally, I think the potentially negative aspect here comes from people not being able to manage their own feelings when it comes to their favorite things being criticized. But again, I haven't really seen any of that here.

The discussions were beyond civil, people seemed to be having fun.

[JRHoch]

Mitch Albom and masterpiece are never spoken together.

[Dane_Sherbet]

I'm not attacking anyone either. Asking people to elaborate on their statements is not necessarily an aggressive move in a discussion.

And I appreciate what you said about Tolstoy. You brought analysis to bear on your own opinion, you
didn't simply air it out. You moved the discussion forward.

[Daisy]

I see. His works are seen as masterpieces from where I'm from but then I live in a religious country so it's not a surprise why Mitch Albom is one of the most recommended authors. I agree with your opinion though.

[lilithfairenwrites]

I mean, a lot of things considered "masterpieces" are deeply-flawed—they just have the kind of fandoms that frown upon any criticism being made of these things.

Take Madoka Magica, for example. Its fans will have you believe it's the best take on the magical-girl genre, something that twists all the cliches and shallow tropes into something deep and hopeful, with great gay representation.

In reality, its entire plot and character actions are all a contrived mess, its lore is complete nonsense and hinges on treating a misogynistic stereotype as absolute fact, and it takes a genre known for positive and empowering themes aimed at girls and perverts it into a story about how girls having dreams and ambitions is selfish and wrong and how they should give up their lives for the "good" of the world. And its "yuri" elements are all shallow fanservice in a story that consistently punishes girls for caring about each other.

And frankly, it's honestly horrifying to hear its fans say that there's anything "hopeful" about an ending where a system that enslaves teenage girls into becoming unknowing human sacrifices is allowed by its supposedly-ideal heroine to continue, and where a teenage girl who simply wanted to find love and help other people is condemned far more harshly than the propagators of this system.

[Jophiel]

i agree with all points tbh But yeah. Among the group, I really didn't like the dark-haired girl the most from how she treated Shoko.

I do appreciate the main friendship between shoya/shoko (i was scared at first of how they were gonna handle a friendship between them without underplaying so props on them for atleast not doing that) and while it could have been presented as a way of reconciliation/where the main group could work on better terms with Shoko after all it, the characterization among the other members weren't as strong.

I never read the manga before but according to some, some things were left off or were toned down