What do you think about thumbnails with "bl" label?

[villainesayre]

My comic was one of the first lgbt+ comics on tapastic and it didn't need a "bl" mark to gain attention, I'm still in awe cause on smackjeeves it just drowned under all of those marked gay comics and I just don't want it to happen here.

About the gag comics it's just as I've earlier said about fantasy comics putting "fantasy" on a thumbnail, it's ridiculous! XD

Also as @Savannah said about choosing a genre - it's either a very good and very bad idea, cause yeah, we would have another category to choose from but it's also creating a line between "normal" romance. And I'd like people to see that either it's about hetero or homo romance - it's still a story and we don't need another label!

[abbastudios]

All of the comics are labeled, romance, action, comedy, etc. The "bl" label is a sub-genre.

The labels help me to decide what to read. I'm not interested in "bl" so I will not read it, yet it will help the audience for that to find it.

I also wasn't interested in romance comics and never clicked on one to read. Now I'm doing a romance comic and am checking out that genre all the time.

[joannekwan]

it's either a very good and very bad idea, cause yeah, we would have another category to choose from but it's also creating a line between "normal" romance.

Totally agree with this.

Also on a side note, I was reluctant to label my series a romance at all because I myself don't really like romance stories (maybe because I'm not a romantic person). I see it more as, "here are my characters, watch them interact, maybe they'll be a couple in the end." But then again it's not really a drama and it's about the two of them so... it's a "romance."

[keii4ii]

have you seen any other genre marking their thumbnails?

erotica comics (including, but not limited to, BL) tend to do this often -- not as a precaution, but as a neon sign saying "psst, hawt steamy stuff in here." Like putting "18+" in the corner of the thumbnail, or even a really porny looking thumbnail with a "clever" (lol not) censoring squat in the middle. XD

[RiverKai]

I just created my LGBTQA+ comic a little less than two days ago and put that on the front because, as some of my readers have already told me in less than a day, they do not want to support that and therefore I do not want them to read it. Maybe I should take it off, seeing how annoyed everyone is.

[RiverKai]

But you know, people are going to be annoyed either way right? If it's going to "market" your comic for something that is being celebrated HERE where it is otherwise hated, is it really all that bad?

[Kura]

I'm not a fan of how homesexual relationships have become a kink in general, with these fanbases making it more difficult for the actual community to push that it's not just a sexual thing, that it's a normal thing.

As for the BL label, I don't like it being used as a warning in the way that "there is homosexual content in this story" that's not something you should have to warn people about like the "will explode if placed near heat" label on a can of spray paint. I've learned to tolerate it being used as to label kink where there is literally absolutely nothing else to the story except gay sex, but even then I would rather not see it used and would rather just see an +18 warning or something.

That being said if the comic feels that it NEEDS to warn me with a BL tag, then I will not read it. I like BL relationships just about as much as I like another other kind of relationship, but if you throw that on I find it well... first off insulting as f*ck, and second, I pretty much just read it as an 18+ warning now, and I don't really care for any sort of comics that revolve around highly sexual 18+ content.

[AnnaLandin]

I personally don't have much of a problem with it. It's just an extra bit of info on the thumbnail. Some people are specifically looking to read bl-comics, and the labelling helps them find it. Some people are specifically not looking for bl-comics, and the labelling helps them avoid it. I treat it the same way I treat an 18+ label; it's further information about the content.

Personally, if I want to read a romance comic, I'll read it regardless of the genders of the main couple, so I don't need the bl-label - but some might.

Whether the "bl" denotes a particular subset of homosexual romance comics - a subset steeped in the more unfortunate tropes of yaoi - or not is not really something I am equipped to make an argument about. There certainly ARE harmful and terrible tropes present in yaoi/bl comics (most specifically rape-as-love, and the weirdly entrenched heterosexual gender roles that the same-sex couples are often trapped in), but whether ALL comics labelled "bl" - or even the majority -here on Tapastic fall into those pitfalls, I don't know. I haven't exactly waded very deep into the romance-genre here. I try not to make assumptions about a comic's contents before I've read at least a few pages of it. If the thumbnail hooks me, I'll click and read a bit. If the comic appeals to me, I'll subscribe - but there's no way of knowing what will appeal to me without reading it.

The romance-genre in general is rife with wish-fulfilment, though, so I won't ignore a comic just because it's cute and fluffy and "unrealistic". It can still be a very good comic. The things that put me off are, as mentioned, the rape-as-love trope, and characters reduced to the seme-uke setup - where one is super-masculine and the other is feminised simply for the sake of fitting into pre-packaged relationship norms.

[maximumthemokona]

I'm not terribly worried about it. I think it looks a tad silly but for a lot of people it works, there are people who will click and sub immediately if they see the BL tag. Personally as someone said above I associate it with clichéd and juvenile romance tropes, so I personally won't click on a story with that label, but for other people, that's exactly what they want to read and there isn't anything wrong with that.

By the way, if you look at japanese doujin sites, you'll notice pretty much every manga on there has some sort of tag on the thumbnail indicating the type of content (especially when it's romantic / sexual). So I can see where people got the idea since it's common practice for japanese fan artists. The people who read that kind of content are accustomed to see it presented that way.

[gateofselidor]

I think it's fine to put it on the thumbnail. Some people are looking for a specific type of comic, and may otherwise miss it. If your comic fits very well into the BL niche, chances are people put off by the label on the thumbnail wouldn't like it anyway. For comics that feature gay romance that doesn't adhere to typical BL tropes, it's a little more complicated, and it's probably best not to label it BL.

I enjoy reading gay romance and I'll certainly take a look at comics labelled BL, but for every decent one, I find at least ten others that embody the worst BL stereotypes (romanticised abusive relationships, rape, shallow seme and uke archetypes, stereotypical female characters as villains or fangirls...the list is endless).

[Erena]

I kinda agree with you. I've never labeled my story as BL, but then again I'm not really sure if my story would even be considered BL. I heavily suggest that my two main characters have a thing for eachother lol, but even if I were to write a real BL story, I don't think I'd feel comfortable putting up that label.

One thing I think though is that it's not really the label that's the problem, rather, I feel that many readers are just so obsessed with BL and only want to read BL. I wish there was more of a balance, and that people would read other genres too, rather than just the one they love because there's so many other great stories out there to read that don't get noticed.

[scottwuming]

I do BL comics and am one of those that have BL labels on thumbnails. It's mostly an advertisement, so I can immediately get the BL enthusiasts' attention, and other as a notice to those who aren't into BL. The thumbnail is the first thing people see when they search for series so I think it's just right to put it on there. I learned from advertising class that the label is your final form of advertisement and it's why I decided to do so. It's also a thing for us in a gay art community to label the thumbnails with the kinks they are expected to see in the comic. I understand your point that romance is romance regardless of gender and I believe so too but my decision to label my thumbnails does not intend to soil that at all. I presume it is the same for all, if not most, of us who do it.

From what I can see so far, it's basically how we interpret BL that generates varying opinions on this matter. As I've understood, BL is a genre in manga which is generally about men engaging in a romantic relationship with each other, and isn't always about smut and gay sex. (I've read a lot of BL that do not patronize these tropes.) As I am using a manga-style, I thought it is just right to label my work the same. But then again, further research should be done on these. Over the years, the terminologies evolved. Perhaps the following articles can help us know more about these: http://www.punkednoodle.com/champloo/2013/08/01/801-mmf-what-is-boys-love-manga-bl/
http://imrc.jp/images/upload/lecture/data/143-168chap10Mizoguchi20101224.pdf (I'm not done reading this! lol)

With that said, I can understand your opinions on your interpretations on BL and labeling because these are quite like how I do not like to be considered "fudanshi", despite being a BL manga enthusiast. I find fujoshi and fudanshi as avid fans who'd pair up every bishie they see, trashing how it makes sense to the original story, and would only care about the hot smex between them. To make it worse, fujoshi means "rotten girl" and I refuse to be labeled as such. I just happen to be gay who is more interested in manga-style. ;3;

Nonetheless, I think this is a very interesting discussion. We should probably make a poll about this, whether it is helpful for the creators to put "BL/Yaoi" labels in their thumbnails or not. If the result suggests it is indeed unhelpful, then I will take my labels down and would probably be best for others to do the same. What do you guys think?

[maximumthemokona]

I don't know, I think the beauty of labels is that we get to choose which ones we use to describe ourselves. So if you feel like you're a fudanshi/fujoshi, you can call yourself that (a lot of people do it ironically, there's nothing wrong with enjoying smut/erotica as long as that's not the one thing defining you or a life obsession), if not, then you're not.
At the same time, if you want to label your comic as BL, do it! People who want BL will find you, and people who don't like it will appreciate the warning.
I think the most important thing is to enjoy what you do and be able to share it with people who can appreciate it. There are always going to be people who judge you for what you do or like, they're not the ones you should cater to[*].

[*] as long as you're not violating the law or a site's ToS, anyway!

[Kura]

As I said before, I don't like it because it's used more as a warning label than a content title. Using it as a title to content is one thing, but a good amount of people use it as a warning, complete with a warning message in the description. Example = "WARNING THIS COMIC IS BL. THAT MEANS THERE WILL BE HOMOSEXUAL MALE ON MALE CONTENT. DO NOT READ IF IT OFFENDS YOU." That right there. Not a label, it's a flat out warning, and it's insulting. Which is a hundred times worse when they include a "THERE IS NO SEX THOUGH JUST GUYS IN RELATIONSHIPS WITH GUYS" in the warning, because at this point your not warning us 'oh no, look out gay sex don't look if you don't like gay sex' it's 'oh no, a guy has feelings for a guy and that's just as shocking as sex and needs to be highlighted with a friggen warning'. I understand it's in most cases trying to limit flames and negative comments but you're still treating a 'relationship type' like something that might actually harm someone, and that's wrong. Especially when such titles and warnings are not needed or considered for relationships that are not gay.

Again if it's not sex, if it's just a relationship, I believe its not something you should have to be warned about (though I understand why people do it when it comes to trying to avoid hate comments). And again, as I explained before, when I do see it as a warning I automatically thin 'this is an adult/porn/smut series and I'm not interested in that so I'm gonna skip it.' Even though I know BL comics are NOT all smut. This is more so probably because in my experience with dealing with adult art these labels are usually only something you bother to put on porn art/porn comics/porn fiction, so that readers can quickly find the kink they are looking for at the time (not to sound vulgar, but usually people in the mood want exactly the porn they want right now and don't have time to go skipping about hoping to run into the type of porn they are looking for) so you get labels like '18+ Light Censorship', or '18+ UNCENSORED', or 'M/F' or 'F/F' or 'M/M' or 'M/F' or 'M/M/T/M/F' 'gore' 'incest' 'feet' 'some other thing that can be turned into a fetish porn you get the idea' Usually the titles are for porn, because that's when the content like that maters because the creators are catering to specific sexual kinks (it's also not exclusive to homosexuality. Again though, everything is labeled, and usually with more than one label, because it NEEDS to be.

I think the issue is more of an issue because most authors outside of pron do not label relationships that are not gay, if everything had a label I would probably see it as exactly that, a label and not a warning.

A light hearted story about a high school boy getting a crush no his male classmate that ends shortly after confessing and maybe a kiss does not need a kink warning.

[elixiadragmire]

I agree with keii's line of thinking (at least with the very niche part). When I see "BL" on the thumb I immediately pile the series into the list of yet another wish fulfillment comic between two ~hot boiz~ written by a 16 year old girl who fetishizes homosexual relationships and has no concept of how real relationships actually work

.... O_O couldn't of said it better myself.

personally there no need to pigeonhole stuff with titles i feel it cuts down your audience or targets the wrong group. if you just let the story BE you'd be surprised how diverse your audience is. I've read and enjoyed lots of different comics with different romances, hetero, queer, transgender I'd rather be involved with the the characters and discover they're feeling with them rather then a having a pre-destined label like BL.

[scottwuming]

I'm one of those with the warning page, actually. ^^; I made it since I see it often in BL mangas, and as it's just like warning for possible man-nsfw content (which my comics all has o_o), and never intended as an insult. I do see your point too and now this further brings me to start a poll regarding this. If the people vote for not needing labels and warnings then I am fine with taking them down. I think this will be fair for all so all of us BL creators can know what the audience suggests? What do you think?

[scottwuming]

Here is the poll. Let us begin with the basic questions.

Should a BL comic thumbnail have a "BL" label? / Are you a BL fan?

It's open for everybody.

[Kura]

I apologize for calling you out then.

Again though, my opinions are just that, my opinions. I know a lot of people also like the BL label because it's easy to find what they are looking for, and the fanbase for such content is extremely large online so I also understand how it helps attract readers, I just don't like how it's been turning into a content 'warning' instead of a content 'label'.

If I go looking for BL comics specifically I usually hunt down webcomic lists instead of looking for the BL labels on titles/tumbnails (or just ask my younger sister, as she happily reads any BL she can find and knows what types of stories I prefer in that regard, I'm more the 'I like it as content/side story to the main story and not exclusively what the story revolves around' kind of guy and she knows that), its much easier to find what you're looking for and tapastic is a nightmare to trying to find new stuff to read anyway (they have been working on it though)

I think once tapastic implements it's tagging system authors will have less need to put the "BL" label on their comics thumbnails.

[scottwuming]

No worries, I completely understand your point. Besides, I am treating this subject in a marketer's perspective.

Yes, if a BL sub-category could be made available then rest assured the labels will be taken off. I had it off on Pixiv since they have the exact filters.

The warning page is still technically a warning but is never intended to patronize homosexuality and the likes as unequal to heterosexuality. Heck, I am gay myself, why would I do that? XP We have it there as heads up for those who do not prefer such content. We all have our preferences and that is what we just want to respect. Mine, in particular, had to be a warning as it contains m/m NSFW scenes.

The labels help me in finding which is BL among the thumbnails. My other method is to type BL / yaoi / gay / lgbt on the search box but I still get more results from the thumbnail labels. If this search bar gets its results from the episode tags then it probably would be best if everybody can tag theirs appropriately.

[gateofselidor]

NSFW warnings are completely appropriate, and separate from warnings for gay romance in general. I think it's something that's come over from fanfiction, as a lot of BL creators got into that before moving into original BL. In fanfic communities you get a lot of people who want to read about a particular character, but not a slash pairing, so those exaggerated, patronising warnings became commonplace. They don't really belong in original comics, but people are used to using them without really thinking about the implications of putting WARNING: THIS STORY CONTAINS GAY STUFF, DON'T LIKE DON'T READ!!! on their rather tame school romance or whatever.