What do you think of the US?

[Mari]

Is it true you say the pledge in school every day? I've heard different accounts of this from my friends in the US. If it's true that's some North Korea shit bruh.

[Trevor]

ehh it’s really variable, some schools do it like once a week, others do it every day, my school use to not do it all until recently, and no one forces the students to say it either, or at least they shouldn’t be, certainly don’t force us to where I am lol.

But yeah, you don’t really have to say the pledge of allegiance if you don’t want to, there’s a psychological thing to it tho, you feel like you have to because you see a lot of other people doing it, it’s mob mentality, you don’t realize how many students don’t say it tho until you actually decide not to say it and then look around between all the standing students

its definitely not comparable to north korea, a place that’s so totalitarian that no one knows what their economy is like and their math textbooks talk about “American bastards”

[Mari]

I mean, it's still 100% creepy and brain-washy. It's pretty up there on the North Korea scale.

[Maps]

Me watching how this discuss rolls out about my country:

https://media.giphy.com/media/gl0mkIZOW6Nwc/giphy.gif

[skicoak]

I mean, it's still 100% creepy and brain-washy. It's pretty up there on the North Korea scale.

I think you're working off a pretty faulty misconception of how the Pledge of Allegiance goes down...or some how live in the only country in the world that has no jingoistic traditions.

[Cavechan]

Awesome video. So simple and easy to understand... and so very, very true.

As for the electoral system, I have mixed feelings about it. The way someone simply described it to me once before - "It's fair because it isn't fair." I get it, but at the end of the day, I still feel like majority rules is better. Considering that rural areas still very much so have a say in government since there's this whole House of Representatives thing. I do believe the minority should have a say, but I also don't feel like they should be making laws for the majority. Like the whole abortion issue. That's a pretty huge issue that is going to affect many people. I wouldn't want a minority of voters creating abhorrently restrictive laws for a majority that don't want it. And with the SCOTUS that way it is now, it is a real and valid concern made possible because of the electoral system allowing the person without majority vote to win.

Then again, if the roles were reversed, then I'd be pretty happy with it. But is it really better for the minority to be happy and the majority not to be? Especially when the science is on the majority's side?

I mean, it's still 100% creepy and brain-washy. It's pretty up there on the North Korea scale.

What I said earlier has likely been buried now, but in the US, nobody can be forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance because not saying it is protected under the first amendment. So if a school were forcing kids to say it, then they could get in pretty big trouble for it.

That doesn't mean that your classmates couldn't be mad at you for not saying it, but the school itself wouldn't be able to get you in trouble for it, like giving you detention or the like.

[joannekwan]

Whoever's indoctrinated that easily by a line of words have other issues going on. Teachers don't check if you're actually saying it. I always just stood and mouthed the words, as I did whenever we sang happy birthday. No one really cared.

They only had the pledge of allegiance in elementary school anyway.

(grew up in northern California in the 90's)

[Mari]

That doesn't mean that your classmates couldn't be mad at you for not saying it, but the school itself wouldn't be able to get you in trouble for it, like giving you detention or the like.

That is the thing though, isn't it? If you don't do the pledge at all, then this scenario wouldn't exist either.

They only had the pledge of allegiance in elementary school anyway.

That just makes it worse. Children are the most vulnerable for this sort of thing.

[joannekwan]

But young children don't know what half the words in the pledge mean anyway.
Pretty sure I had no concept of 'allegiance' until middle school.

[Maps]

I have to agree. Literally had no affect on me. It’s kind of like your mom telling you to put your shoes away. You just did it because it was a chore and carried on lol. I felt nothing mentally as I said the pledge and I don’t think it made me feel patriotic or whatever.

[Kura]

Not meaning to really join into this argument and the points that have been brought up, but I just wanna say it's really weird to pledge allegiance for a country that's coined the term 'land of the free'

[joannekwan]

I mean, the pledge isn't without controversy here locally in the U.S., many people argue the same things as y'all.

It's just … pretty low on the priority of things to be contentious over.

[Maps]

We (the people) were also supposed be be governing our government too, but well... I’d argue that’s been stretched into a whole new realm.
But yeah, we’re not perfect, and as someone mentioned we are a young nation. I’d not be shocked if schools eventually stopped reciting the pledge of allegiance at some point. It’s already a touchy subject at sporting events. And some schools already have.
I just think it had been part of American classroom etiquette (something a lot of cultures have) and it just carried on til now from traditions long ago.
I can get why it seems weird from others cultures’ point of views. But I wouldn’t compare us saying the anthem to being indoctrinated like people in NK are.
Like we aren’t going to get punished or sentenced for not saying it.
I don’t feel brainwashed or indoctrinated for having said it during school. But I guess I can’t say that for everyone’s state of mind. Some people are crazy about the anthem and our country so shruuuug.

[Mari]

I mean saying that you're a young nation is kinda off, most countries in europe are way younger as their own independent things (including the one I live in)

I'm not saying the pledge is some high-priority thing, but that'd literally not cost anything to be rid of. And considering how people are defending it here with weird arguments, I'd say it did have an effect. shrug

[Maps]

I think everyone has a right to explain their customs and their cultures in hopes of giving some insight to how the experiences of participating in them felt for them, even if those explanations are weird. But ima now out of this thread now.

[skicoak]

@Mari

So in this brand new land, your people found and settled in Europe, what do your people do during your nation anthem?

[Mari]

@skicoak

Uhhh....That's only played on the 5th of december (day before our independence day) when it comes to schools, and I'm not sure how it is nowadays, but when I was in elementary school in the 90's we would stand under the flagpole of the school and sing it, and that was that.

I guess they play it before professional sports but I don't ever watch sports so I dunno what's the customs with that.

[skicoak]

@Mari

They make kids stand under a flag and sing?!? That's some North Korean stuff right there.

[Mari]

@skicoak

I'm fairly sure I never said celebrating your independence day was a bad thing, but alright. Comparing people swearing allegiance to a flag every day from when they're 6 years old to celebrating independence on the anniversary of it isn't exactly apples to apples, now is it?

There's plenty of things to critisize my country for, but this ain't it chief.

[charliesackett]

That was what I thought when my friend told me they actually do it too