What if you opened Pandora's box...and needed someone else to close it?

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Basically, what if you made a catastrophic, world-ending mistake, that could only be undone by someone else? Someone who might not be willing to help you for some reason or another...what would you do or say to this person; especially as the death toll rises and the world crumbles around you?

I'm trying to understand a certain villain I'm writing...one that I simply don't like. ^^; It's very hard to write a villain that you don't like...I don't necessarily want to be sympathetic to him, but I need his dialogue to feel genuine, so I've been trying to understand his motivations better. How guilt and desperation and powerlessness can twist your mind...how seeing someone as an 'answer' can lead you to stop seeing them as a person.

EDIT, Since people are still misunderstanding this: THE VILLAIN is the one who has opened the box. I'm trying to understand HIS mindset--> the questions are written from HIS point of view.

[river121693]

Is the person asking someone to close the box the villain? Or is the good guy trying to get the villain to close the box?

[DiegoPalacios]

What does the villain get from the world crumbling?

that answer can show what can or can't motivate them.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Is the person asking someone to close the box the villain?

Yes, as backwards as it sounds. ^^ Although in execution, he's really not much different from your average "so convinced they're saving the world that they're willing to crush any obstacle in their way" villain.

[Hipiticus]

they could say you or your loved ones could end up dying as well or teach em empathy while the mc drags them along to the box and by the time they reach it the villain is a changed person that will close it

[ueonts]

I guess the hero then is burdened with some power allowing them to help the world then? I would look at stories with like children with psychic powers manipulated by a government or something like that. Maybe Stranger Things is a good analogue.

[UrMom]

Oh no! I'm a terrible person for this question! Like, as a nihilist who knows the world is going to end someday anyway, I probably wouldn't do anything. Not because I wouldn't want to talk to the person who can save it, but because I assume there wouldn't be anyone left alive (including myself.) to suffer the aftermath, so I wouldn't care. If I'm going to cause a catastrophe full on extinction is ideal.

With that being said, lets say I would care for story context. I have no shame so I probably would do whatever the person wanted to make amends so they can close the box... outside of causing grievous harm to myself. Maybe I'd bring up the people they care about, like "Hey, your loved one is one of the people who are going to die, so you should probably close that.", or something they really, REALLY like not existing anymore "Your favorite ice cream, and the company that makes it, will no longer exist if you don't do the thing." If those things don't work than oh well, we're all gonna die.

[river121693]

oo interesting. If I was out of my mind evil, I would kill the hero's loved ones and go "if the box doesn't close it would feel like this, but for billion of people... is that what you want?"

[DokiDokiTsuna]

oo interesting. If I was out of my mind evil, I would kill the hero's loved ones and go "if the box doesn't close it would feel like this, but for billion of people... is that what you want?"

...This is almost exactly what I wrote O _O...scary...

...But at least now I know it wasn't an unnatural decision. ^^;

[TheSingularitySeed]

I guess if I actually wanted to close the box--
And I've used all reasonable methods--

I'd take it public. If I can't convince them, everyone else can try.
That's assuming I'd have proof they can close it.

[PoquitoBird]

Villains can be the hardest, but most rewarding characters to write for! Sometimes it takes time to flesh them out!

I think it depends on the villain’s personality: Are they cunning and manipulative? Did they just open it impulsively without planning ANY future plan or did it just crumble around them?

If they are manipulative, how can they use the protagonist without the heroes being the wiser to their evil plans? Can the villain make the heroes believe they are doing the right thing by justifying their actions?

If they act with an arrogant attitude, would they be more prone to monologue their evil plans?

The villain’s motivations can be better developed when giving them a back story to reaffirm their actions / dialogue.

It’s also good to think about how their interactions with the protagonists and how conversations between them would go.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I'd take it public. If I can't convince them, everyone else can try. That's assuming I'd have proof they can close it.

Ooh, I did try this once, many many drafts ago...only it was too difficult for me back then; I ended up writing myself into a corner. ^^;
I feel like it makes so much sense though...maybe when I start filling in the later parts of the story, I'll give it another try. At least on a small scale.

It’s also good to think about how their interactions with the protagonists and how conversations between them would go.

There's only one protagonist in the story that this villain respects enough to have an actual conversation with, which is what inspired this thread. I finally wrote them talking to each other for the first time, and didn't really like what I came up with... :T

I think it's just difficult to balance their positive and negative feelings...this protag was a friend of the villain's family, and although she's never met him before she feels kind of vaguely responsible for him, like an aunt...but on the other hand, she has a HUGE chip on her shoulder when it comes to child abuse, and probably shouldn't have much patience for all his excuses regarding his treatment of the MC (despite the fact that she knows what's at stake).

Meanwhile, the villain regards this protag almost like a messiah (in the context of this analogy, she was the previous 'box closer') but on the other hand, he has to be able to convince himself that he knows better than her when it comes to handling the current situation (despite the fact that, again, he started it, and she may or may not have already figured that out).

...So yeah, juggling all this ain't easy. o_o;

[Zhengo]

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[Zhengo]

You mentioned that the character is someone who became twisted from guilt and desperation, and views another character almost like an object that will fix everything. In your last post you also establish that the person the villain is talking to has a somewhat distant but existing relationship with the villain who feels vaguely responsible for him.

It seems to me that the villain seems to see the "box closer" as someone who has the ability to absolve his guilt and redeem him by "fixing" the mess he apparently caused. If his mess was reversed or at least stopped, at least he won't have to live with the weight that he literally wrecked the whole world.

This leads to a route where you can connect the villain's guilt with the box closer's vague sense of responsibility. Since she feels responsible for him, does she also feel some semblance of guilt that she may not have been there for him during his downward spiral? Does she feel partially responsible for the mess he caused? He could play on that, try to convince her that it's also her responsibility to resolve the mess. Play on her empathy by having him show how desperate and pathetic he's become. Maybe in his mind, he could think that it's also her responsibility to play a part in his "redemption" by resolving the mess

[DokiDokiTsuna]

It seems to me that the villain seems to see the "box closer" as someone who has the ability to absolve his guilt and redeem him by "fixing" the mess he apparently caused. If his mess was reversed or at least stopped, at least he won't have to live with the weight that he literally wrecked the whole world.

*cackles gleefully *

...By which I mean, you hit the nail right on the head with that analysis. ^^ Wow...I wonder if I'm ever that perceptive when I think about other people's stories...

Play on her empathy by having him show how desperate and pathetic he's become.

Y'know, at first I thought "he would never" but after taking some time to consider it, there's probably a bitter, frustrated way to play this that actually would match his aggressive personality.

And now that I think about it, there is quite a large self-loathing aspect to his character...I mean, devoting all your time and energy to tormenting some kid into undoing your mistakes is a pretty big, depressing undertaking. Neither of them get to walk away until the matter is settled, so...in a way, he's also tormenting himself. ^^;

Maybe that's what I'm missing: I forgot to consider his own misery...

[TheLemmaLlama]

I mean, it depends why the other person is refusing to close the box, really? Like, are they holding some sort of grudge such that they refuse to do it just because it's me who opened it so it's my mess they're cleaning after, even if the whole world is literally at stake?

I'd try to understand their reasoning first before jumping to more extreme methods of coercion. (Is this why you dislike this villain? Because the scenario you've written sounds pretty sympathetic to me, and with limited context I'm more inclined to feel frustrated towards/'villify' the person refusing to close the box :'D)

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Because the scenario you've written sounds pretty sympathetic to me, and with limited context I'm more inclined to feel frustrated towards/'villify' the person refusing to close the box :'D)

I guess you kinda should, because that's exactly how this villain feels. ^^;

The main reason this 'box closer' won't do his job is because it would require him to kill an innocent victim who happens to be possessed by the 'avatar' of the box. It's clear that the victim's soul is still in there somewhere, and that it's theoretically possible for them to be freed...although no one has any idea how to do that (until the very end of the story).

Throughout the story, the 'box closer' has to grapple with the idea of choosing to sacrifice this victim in order to end the apocalypse, which is made doubly difficult by the fact that his own negligence was what allowed this victim to be possessed in the first place. 9_9;

...Of course, from the villain's perspective, the 'box closer' has simply formed an irrational attachment to a random kid that (a) the 'box closer' was acquainted with for maybe 4 days tops, (b) was never meant to exist separately from the 'avatar', and thus doesn't even count as a full human being, and (c) simply does not matter compared to the lives of everyone else in the world (and of course, his own crippling guilt).

^Which is why I didn't mention it. ^^; To him, this victim is a non-issue.

[TheLemmaLlama]

^Which is why I didn't mention it. ^^; To him, this victim is a non-issue.

Yeah, that was a great way to get us into the villain's head and make our answers closer to what he'd say, imo

So knowing this is the box-closer's reason, and thinking it's irrational because I don't care about the victim, I will probably go through the points a), b) and c) you mentioned to convince the box-closer of my point of view, and when that fails, prob do what River or SingularitySeed mentioned