What is the best way for the hero to win a fight where they're losing?

[kyupol]

• 1) Just believe in yourself more
• 2) Someone to protect...
• 3) His buddies bail him out
• 4) Villain leaves him for dead only for the hero to make a comeback and level up enough to defeat the villain
• 5) Hero figures out the weakness of the villain's technique / ability / Mecha robot / etc.
• 6) Villain makes a stupid mistake, making him open for defeat.
• 7) other please explain

Show results

[inubasket]

I love seeing the hero's friends come to the rescue when all hope seems lost-- it's my favorite trope lol. Lord of the Rings, Avengers, etc. Loyal friends are the best asset!

[jwabeasley]

Other: Hero turns out to have had a plan all along, where just by fighting the villain loses even if they win the battle.

Second favorite: Talk no jutsu (only when well done)

Third favorite: World of Cardboard moment - I was just holding back because I didn't want anyone to get hurt or to cause collateral damage.

Fourth favorite: The hero just straight up loses. Now what?

Fifth favorite: Hail Mary solution - a wild, desperate idea that nobody normal would even consider! Dresden files does this often.

Least favorite: Just believe in yourself/morale boost victory. It's only acceptable when confidence failure was the whole point of the story, and all the other pieces were there. Even then I don't like it. Otherwise, it's BS. Like in Blue Eyes Samurai (an otherwise excellent show that avoids this trope) she's fighting the Irishman and the chips are down, all cheap tricks thrown, and she's getting crushed by a physically superior foe...and then she just decides to win, and suddenly she has the ability to win!

[justincarbunkle]

Of the options listed, 5 usually. It’s satisfying to see the hero figure out how to defeat the villain through their own wit + effort.

The rest of the options depend on the story being told + execution. Villain leaves them for dead: the reason for the villain leaving them for dead would have to be very good. That or the villain just believes the hero is dead. Friends bail out works if the entire story was focused around those character + value of friendship. Believe in yourself + someone to protect: again, if the entire story is focused or leading up to that moment, and the moment is well executed, it can work. Villain makes a mistake: if they’re a comedic character, or the point of them is their vanity or pride, it could work.

[kyupol]

Fourth favorite: The hero just straight up loses. Now what?

... then badness rules the land. Then everything will be destroyed. The end of the world... BOOM!

[Lensing]

4 & 5 + revenge

[Oriflamme]

It all depends on the themes of your story, the hero’s victory should be a manifestation of the message. If your villain is all about how humans are selfish and egotistical, then they must be stopped by people working together with the expectation that they will receive nothing in return. The evil scientists that believe themselves to be so superior over everyone, must be brought down by something so obvious they did not think it was possible and so on. Unless you want people to agree with the villains, their downfall must be tied into why they’re wrong.

[jwabeasley]

Nah man, maybe the hero can't win this time, but they can strike a blow that gives the villain a vital weakness for a future hero to exploit. Maybe the badness rules the land...and it's not so bad after all, and the villain was right. Maybe the hero is somehow revived thousands of years later into the future that is AKU. Maybe the world needed to be destroyed for some other thing to happen. Maybe the heroes example inspires some future heroes that can learn from the hero's failures and finally succeed. Maybe (self) righteousness isn't enough to win - it rarely contributes meaningfully to victory IRL. Perhaps the hero is recovered just before death and comes back better prepared.

There are many, many interesting paths that open up once you're willing to let your heroes lose.

[simonitropunk]

When they get the second wind and the protagonist's theme song starts playing in the background...

[kyupol]

Or it could be there's no heroes only villains. Like how Gundam did it. Both sides have good and bad people within them

Or it could be like that Carl Sagan video about how we are just a pale blue dot?

Or that meme I saw how weak men create hard times and strong men create good times and good times create weak men and it all cycles...

[jwabeasley]

The meme is simplified but it's not inaccurate! Historical cycles are real.

In real life, there are no pure heroes or pure villains. Almost everyone is doing what they think is right, or at least what they can convince themselves is not that bad, or just as bad as what that other side does. Not to stray into politics, but just look at the recent assassination in my country - the shooter sure felt justified and righteous in his deplorable actions!

[kyupol]

Or we can do it like Philippine history where the textbook for elementary school students say they're all heroes who fought against Spain and USA...

... but as it gets into high school or college level, all sides are tried to be presented as objective and unbiased as possible... while it's up to you to make up your own mind on who is the hero or villain... and to this day the debates go on and never settle...

In the late 19th century to turn of 20th century we fought Spain, USA, and civil war at the same time

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Naruto villains are humanized too. Can sympathize with Gaara, Obito, Itachi...

Then there's Sensui of yuyu Hakusho... Shishio of Kenshin... my favorite villains ever.

[jwabeasley]

Or like U.S. AP History textbooks, which say that the U.S. was a bunch of evil colonizers in every war except for the civil war and WWII, and in general tells just enough to get people to think they know a subject from history and keep them from getting curious about the real story.