Where is the Limit to how harsh the joke in your work can be

[Reraser]

I feel like any reply in this is gonna start with the "punching up" comment like Michelle said but it's very, very, very important. Jokes are catharsis, and the people who need them most are the ones you're not supposed to be punching toward. When people talk about "dark humor" that doesn't just translate to "Ha ha, the author's making fun of disabled people!" edginess, I think what determines "dark" is how brutal the truth is and how soberingly the author illustrates the joke.

Anyone can feel free to disagree with me, and I'd appreciate the education if I'm wrong, but I don't think the presented strip has any problems insofar as the characters presented. It doesn't make fun of its presented Korean character so much as his situation, which IS in actuality dismal, as said in the comic. I feel like it might have come close if the joke were just about listing off how shitty living in N. Korea is, but overall I don't think the strip breaches into offensive territory. Sorry, you asked for commentary on the strip right?? Or did I just write too much.

BUT I'M NOT DONE because I want to put a really fine point on "Just words and pictures," because that's a really flimsy excuse for any creative work. Art has intent, nothing is made in a vacuum where it has no inspiration or message of some sort. Media is incredibly powerful, moreso than anyone ever likes to give it credit for, and we can't risk being so lax as to make something that could be hurtful, because the people hurt can't just write it off as "Ah it's just a JPEG on the internet it doesn't matter."

Hope none of that got too intense, I'm just really passionate about jokes and their purpose.

[J.Z.Castillo]

Well, my thing with that type of humor is that those people are 1) comedians, and 2) really fucking funny. Comedy is an art form not many can master, and from what I read, you aren't grasping the concept fully. To go straight for that shock value just to shock people is lazy, really. Like Reraser said, dark comedy is not writing fucked up things just to make people go "AH, I would never!" Dark comedy is making fun of reality itself, almost like satire watered down.

Personally I found your silent strips to be way funnier than the ones with text, maybe it was the many grammatical errors or the disorganized text, but they really put me off. I'm going to tell you the same thing I tell every comedy comic writer: Go. Watch. Comedians. Live or on the internet, and not only the comedians you find funny, but all sorts of comedians. See what they do that you like or don't like, how they tell jokes, how they land a punchline, really study that, it will help you tons!

[Herofeeder]

can you tell me if these are funny or just plain rude

https://tapastic.com/episode/404046
https://tapastic.com/episode/403192
https://tapastic.com/episode/401224

im really trying to make this comic in to a thing
what i would like to know-if someone takes a look at them
would they get insulted bcs they are bad and just plain rude, or laugh and pay no attention to PC

[Michelle]

Er, honestly, I don't find them funny. Mostly because the execution is very messy-- the artwork is unclear and there are a LOT of typos that make it hard to read or follow the joke. Even the most hilarious jokes will flop if presented poorly.

The only thing I'd consider "rude" is the whole "Do all Asian girls have bushes?" Not because it's particularly offensive, but because it's the type of immature shock humor that a little kid would think was funny. Kinda like a middle-schooler yelling "PENIS" in the classroom and thinking he's a comedic genius.

[Herofeeder]

thanks for the opinion man ..im trying this new thing ..yeah i know im an illiterate c....t but i have a job and sadly it takes most of my time and when i come home the text is the last thing i do when i draw ...and as you can see my drawings...eeeh my hands are very shaky im still nowhere near the comfort zone of drawing digital and i dont know how to improve in that area other then trying to draw the comic asap bcs i told my self i would post every day . but the drawing takes a huge amount of time bcs(0 skill) .
while i have your attention i was wondering if you could take a look at my new-er comics i tried coloring them and i was wondering if the text has improved

also the reason i stopped with the silent comics was bcs its much harder to imagine the joke and then draw it ,where as i can instantly think of something funny that requires a text.

but i would appreciate it if you could tell me what i would have to do to make the text more appealing and better over all

@Reraser raser thanks for the opinion too man i think i understand what you mean, the only thing thats messy right now in my comics is the text ,im not very good when it comes to text and it seems its showing really poor results ,il try to fix that

[Herofeeder]

hehe,you said penis

[sorrelma]

My personal opinion is "its just words and drawings" they are only offensive if the person who made them wanted them to be offensive.

i have to say that this is bullshit

there are ABSOLUTELY things that are offensive, regardless of their intention. this is true of anything. ex: i can say "lmao i was just joking. don't take it so seriously. it's not rude" about the sentence above but that's not necessarily going to stop you from taking it as overly blunt and aggressive
a lot of the content that people take as "offensive" includes microaggressions that creators don't even know they're perpetuating in their work. a good rule is that if someone points out an issue in your work and they AREN'T the type of person who thrives off of doling petty criticism, you should consider taking a step back and thinking about where you went wrong(ESPECIALLY when multiple people point things out)

i doubt my opinion has much weight here since i tend to be someone who thinks "politically correct" is synonymous with "being a decent human being" but regardless - no one wants to alienate their CORE audience. if people with similar opinions to you are complaining that your work is offensive, it's something worth looking into

I have the mindset, "Could I show these to my kids someday?" always on the backburner, keeping me in check.

this is really good advice, imo

[Herofeeder]

@sorrelma

i said "personal opinion"

Like i get your point ,i don't want to insult the minority or the majority of the people that come across my content.
take for example that guy that uses puppets .one of hes puppets are "Achmed the dead terrorist"(sorry if wrote the name wrong i don't know hot its supposed to be written )
the creator of that puppet and the idea of it being the dead terrorist said that the solders(who he did a benefit gig for )that ended up without limbs or that suffer from PTSP and that have gone through god knows what ,Love achmed the dead terrorist out of all hes acts.
i don't know if you ever watched the guy but he is all but PC .
which in my opinion shows that the only people who will demand Political correctness are the ones that are bored with their life and have
nothing better to do then to find something to complain about,and stick with that until they go to their graves

but it's very disturbing to me how PC people consider them selves as the only people in this world that have the right to be offended
if you have ever seen a pissed of artist or a comedian or anyone with an opinion that might make you uncomfortable even if the persons making a point ,it's bcs they are also offended by the idea that their art is something more then a joke put there to entertain people

if anyone reading this is a PC peasant (triggered 100%) you should know that life is a joke,and if you dont know how to laugh at it ,you're gonna have a bad time living it.

[sorrelma]

hey - i didn't say that at all! i said the exact opposite. all i'm saying is that EVERYONE is offended by certain things. if you have an issue with people whose opinions differ from yours, that's totally fine. make your art, make your point. i disgaree, and ideally i would like you to understand why i feel the way i do, but, ultimately, if someone is offended by your work, you need to evaluate a couple of things

imo the most important thing you need to evaluate is WHO is offended
like i said - if you don't want to cater to "people like me" fine. but if someone in your core audience, the target audience, the people who you are making the content FOR thinks it goes to far, you should consider taking that feedback. part of being a marketable creator is being willing to accept criticism from the people who are keeping you afloat, financially or just via moral support

i'm putting aside my personal opinions to give you advice as a fellow creator ? that must be a joke, too. super ironic. if you don't want advice, don't ask for it ? and don't resort to name calling when someone addresses the concern you literally talked about in your op???? why did you make this thread if you were only willing to accept one answer for a yes/no question?

[Herofeeder]

sorry man i got triggered when you said PC people are decent human beings .that gets me every time i apologize

[J.Z.Castillo]

Question Everything: funny premise, poor execution. It feels a bit too long and then ends abruptly. I would plan ahead (draw thumbnails on a sketchbook) before drawing the actual comic so your text is not just placed on top of drawings. Also, put it in speech bubbles so it doesn't get lost with the sound effects and what not, it will make it easier to read, as well.

Close to Death: Ok, first panel makes it look like the second panel is actually the first. I would flip those two panels, if this was a manga (traditionally read right to left) it would have been fine. I hope this makes sense, I know it's difficult to describe without pics, sorry! Also, punchline, it's a bit too sudden, and kind of has a flat deliverance.

Sneakin' Suspicion: Alright! This one is the better of the three! Pretty funny and I like how you colored it. This one could GREATLY benefit from speech bubbles as I am not sure if this person is talking, or thinking, or reading out loud. I am just assuming it's thoughts. Make it clear to the audience. Remember comics are about SHOWING.

Overall, I think you are improving, but like I said, you need to study comedy so you can get better at landing and telling jokes. Find comedy strips online or watch comedians, bleed what you learn into your comic. I know most of us like to think that we are the shit, but it's always nice to have outside influences, it only makes our own work stronger!

One last thing that kinda bugged me. If someone asks you a question, just answer them! Don't hold anything at ransom because they aren't going to sub to you, that's so douchey! Be nice, interact with people (even if they don't sub to you). You attract more flies with honey than vinegar!

[Herofeeder]

nice man thanks a lot ,hey is it okay if i add you as a friend here or ..anywhere ,i could sure use your opinion ,and i could learn from you a lot

[sorrelma]

listen, dude. if being a libertarian troll is doing great for your thriving business, go ahead. who am i to question your sound business practices? i just figure when you ask a question like "where is the limit to how harsh the joke in your work can be?" you're expecting more than affirmation of "there isn't one!!!! do whatever you want!!!" please stop asking questions if you don't want answers

[Herofeeder]

@sorrelma i asked you for your opinion on that , that is true.But you just decided it would be smart to go with "your personal opinion is BS"
i don't recall asking you to take a dump on my opinion i asked you when has a joke gone to far and how to recognize it and if i can put a disclaimer other then not safe for work

[TheVoidchildProject]

There are some good replies in here already regarding the nature of "jokes". I'll just share my opinion on this.

I usually find that rather than what the subject matter of a joke is, the execution is what makes people find a joke "harsh" or inappropriate. Intention is very important too. If you're just trying to shock/provoke without any other intent, I'd call that crude. A monkey throwing poo at me can provoke me (though I guess that's kind of funny). If you're looking to be "harsh" or "anti-pc" just for the sake of it, that's the same too me.

I'm a huge fan of Trey Parker and Matt Stone, makers of South park. More often than not they find themselves subject of aggravation because of the nature of their humor. The schism there for me is that they're using their comedy as a means of commentary. They have a purpose. And while on a surface level the comedy seems crude/obscene there is tons of subtext to their work. Honestly, I don't think they'd have survived without it. You mentioned Dave Chappelle as well. He's the same to me. He often plays off racial stereotypes but in doing so highlights our perceived perceptions (his bit on Chappelle Show about a blind black nazi is a brilliant example of this).

Jokes handled with care and respect can get away with most anything. Jokes done for shock value are, to me, offensive in that they feel lazy and uninteresting. I'm talking generally here as I started writing this prior to looking at your link.

[Herofeeder]

hey thanks man that clears a lot of things for me,much appreciated
@TheVoidchildProject

[scythe]

For me, you can joke about anything as long as it lands. I think the whole punching up or down thing is stupid as it relies on the ever shifting progressive stack and identity politics, which are, as we all know, pure evil. As long as it's funny, you can offend disabled cancer ridden minorities, as long as it's actually funny. Laughter in and of itself has value, outside of anything else. If a joke isn't funny though, it doesn't matter how inoffensive or offensive it is. That being said, what's allowed on this site, or what people who frequent this site will appreciate, let's just say, I suspect you won't win many subscribers if you're being too subversive or running up against the status quo too much.

Check out Toon Hole, they seem to walk the line fairly well.

[Herofeeder]

@scythe you, i like you

[TheVoidchildProject]

hat being said, what's allowed on this site, or what people who frequent this site will appreciate, let's just say, I suspect you won't win many subscribers if you're being too subversive or running up against the status quo too much.

"Know your audience" is a saying that often goes around when it comes to comedy. That's def an important aspect.

[Herofeeder]

agreed @TheVoidchildProject