“Why does nobody write women?”

DokiDokiTsuna 2025-08-23 23:42:29 UTC #21

You could say that, yeah...I don't even notice anymore; it's just normal now for me to see a sequence of words somewhere on YouTube and turn it into a thread. At least 50% of em start out that way ^^;

Personally, I'd be skeptical about that claim without some stats to back it up...male-centered media is much more socially normalized; there are FAR more casual female viewers of media with male MCs than the other way around.
Yes, romance is a popular genre for female readers, but the idea that female readers don't want to see themselves in anything except romance (i.e. it's their own fault that they have low representation outside the genre)...dubious, at best. :T

Reminds me of the logic used by those kids' cartoon channel execs who claimed that "girls graduate out of animation"...which people were naturally pissed about, because in reality "cartoons are for kids" + "girls need to mature faster than boys" = "girls should be shamed out of watching cartoons as soon as possible" is a lot closer to the truth. The audience IS there, certain people just don't want it to be, so they ignore it.

...Uh, y'know, this thread is titled "why does nobody write women", right? Not "why does nobody write 16 year old girls"...women can be in their 50s too, and stories can be written about those older women! The more you know~

...Anyway if I'm following your logic correctly, you're saying 'people write what there's an audience for'-->'the audience for romance is limited'-->'romance is heavily associated with female leads'-->'nobody wants to write for a limited audience, therefore nobody wants to write female leads'

And there are TONS of holes in that logic; that's at least three different threads right there. ^^; But what I find fascinating about it in general is the automatic association of female MCs with all these things you claim "most" people are not interested in, or actively avoid: young characters, characters who experience romantic attraction, audience members who like romance.

This argument works if you're thinking like a studio exec (like I mentioned earlier), using societal misogyny to guide your choices on what type of media has value. In that vein it has merit; I can see where it's coming from.
But it falls apart when you're thinking like someone who...just enjoys fiction, and likes to create characters and stories. Which is more where the point of the thread is coming from. ^^; Just FYI...

Basically, the idea that people don't want to write female MCs simply because they represent everything shallow and gross and ew in the fiction world...is not entirely unfounded. The idea that this is just a normal and obvious way of thinking which makes perfect sense, rather than...I dunno, a harmful bias that you might wanna unpack and dissect...that's a bit concerning, ngl. =/

...I feel almost silly that I never thought about that. ._.

In my defense though, I don't know if I associate the demographic of something like ArtFight with the same demographic that tends to shy away from watching anything with a girl in it (i.e. the 'mainstream'). Maybe it's just the circles I run in, but I haven't noticed an aversion to girl-coded media within these kinds of 'artsy' fandom spaces...like, you're much more likely to find someone who hates Steven Universe because of the Diamond plotline than someone who hates it because Steven is "unmasculine". If that makes sense. ^^;

jwabeasley 2025-08-23 23:48:36 UTC #22

I had my memory jogged about that video, that one was mostly about Artfight making the majority of characters men, IIRC. In that case I think it was mostly about the artfight participants being mostly young women, writing characters that they thought were attractive for BL type situations.

For that, I think the deeper analysis of culture at large is unwarranted. If you have an audience of mostly adolescent men rating characters on popularity, you'd get mostly female characters of specific types, and it wouldn't be a mystery why.

DokiDokiTsuna 2025-08-24 00:23:49 UTC #23

I mean...unless it was a list like 'Top 10 Most Popular Anime Characters', in which case you'd be lucky to see a single girl on the list (besides Sailor Moon). ^^;;;

...In all seriousness, I understand the logic you're using there. BL was the first thing I thought of, tbh (don't know why I didn't mention it myself...maybe I just figured mentioning Tumblr sexymen covered all those bases, IDK).

BUT, just as there are still plenty of instances in which men will focus on men, there are also instances in which women will focus on women, and I don't think it's unreasonable to question the (alleged) absence of those instances.

If, for example, young men as a demographic stopped watching action movies and instead demanded more "chick flick" sisterhood comedies, you could just say "well of course; those movies have girls in them which means sex appeal; what do you expect", but...given * gestures at a century of film history * I would still question it. =/ I'd wanna investigate that phenomenon...

Zhengo 2025-08-24 00:50:01 UTC #24

While this is true for general fictional media, I do think his quote is more applicable (of men focusing on female characters and women focusing on male characters) if you consider the recent explosion of high budget gacha games onto the mainstream such as Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Rail, Wuthering Waves, etc. that sorta cater to a broad gender demographic. I saw "sorta" because people often debate on if these games truly cater to both genders or it mostly caters to men and throw enough scraps to women to keep them playing. If men were to rank characters in those types of games, they would most likely only rank female characters, and women vice versa.

Most users on Artfight are young and have a higher likelihood of playing at least one of these big budget gacha games since they are available on mobile and free to download. In these games, they tend to cater the male characters to women's tastes and female characters to men's taste. Ironically, I honestly think the "female characters catered to men's taste" is more applicable to why users on that site end up avoiding creating female characters these days. A lot of the female characters in these games either tend to be promoted with the typical sexy fanservice, moe fanservice, or act romantic to the male version player character. Combine that with being in these types of fandoms where fanworks based on the female characters can be overly NSFW. Being exposed to a lot of that might make some girls start to think in a way of "female characters are just catered to men" kind of mindset.

So basically, my theory is just that Artfight has a high young and female demographic. This demographic probably has a significant number that has played one of the mainstream gacha games where they're exposed to female characters that are obviously made for a male demographic. This causes them to shy away from creating female characters because their view of them has been influenced by the idea that female characters will just attract unsavory men

jwabeasley 2025-08-24 01:05:17 UTC #25

A list I found on CBR for last year:
1. Satoru Gojo (Jujutsu Kaisen)
2. Gintoki Sakata (Gintama)
3. Katsuki Bakugo (My Hero Academia)
4. Tenma Tsukasa (Project SEKAI: Colorful Stage!)
5. Osamu Dazai (Bungo Stray Dogs)
6. Tokiya Ichinose (Uta no Prince-sama)
7. Kashuu Kiyomitsu (Touken Ranbu ONLINE)
8. Kana Arima (Oshi no Ko)
9. Rei Sakuma (Ensemble Stars!)
10. Samatoki Aohitsugi (Hypnosis Mic)

So you're right about that, only Kana is female from that list. Though several of those male characters are definitely designed to appeal to women. So there might be a case where women like the love interest in shows targeted for them, and men like the action hero in shows targeted for them. Weird, but anime tends to be especially responsive to audiences so this might be the default.

I know MY personal top 10 anime characters would be mostly women. But, I'm not someone who has mainstream tastes on anything.

PapaDom 2025-08-24 12:23:42 UTC #26

Okay, so I watched the video (which was just terrible and a waste of my time if I hadn't done something besides it), read some replies here again, and had some time to think; I think I figured out the answer to this question. And to my surprise, it isn't misogyny or the male-to-female ratio that consumes what media the most, or a third funny thing, which to me is total balony, but I'm not going to delve deeper into this can of worms because it would be a total waste of my and everyone's precious time just to read the never ending rambling of a mad man.

So, the question is "Why does nobody write women?" and to my surprise, the answer is similar to this question "Why don't you draw X?": Because I don't want to.

Now, before you start with "Ermm, that's not actually true~^^;" let's think for a second here. Imagine me walking to you and say "Why don't you draw furries? All I see you drawing is robots." and if you answer with "Because I don't want to." that's not an answer with malicious intent, it's just your choice and what you prefer to spend your time drawing. And that's okay. Same if someone walks up to a man and says "You only draw men and not women. You're a misogynist!". Wouldn't fly much if it were a man, married to a wonderful wife, with two beautiful daughters, with a marriage of 20 years and still going strong, no? The point I'm trying to make here is that if somebody doesn't draw someone from a certain demographic, it isn't because of a bias; it's just what they prefer and didn't think of while doing what they enjoy.

Now, let's hammer down why nobody wants to write women with a few more points.

By the end of the video, we got "Challenged" (which is just a fancy way to force your will on someone) from the creator to draw more women instead of men. So, what would be your response if the creator said that to you face to face?
A: "Oh! I'm SO sorry for that. Please forgive me for being so inconsiderate!" or
B: "Fuck you~! I'm gonna draw more of what you don't want to see. Come and suck it!"
If you answered with B, congrats. That's what everyone would've said in this situation. You can't force someone to do something they don't want to. It would be like forcing someone to eat something they don't like: They will grow to hate it more and despise everything associated with it.

The next point is something TAMAnnoying perfectly pointed out:

And I can reconfirm it with another great example, The Last of Us.
Everyone loved the first game: It had a great story, and the characters were loved by all. Now, why does nobody love the second game as much as the first one? Not because Abby was a woman (I think), it's because she killed Joel, someone we know and grew to love, and as a player, we were forced to play as her and sit through her story, and we should feel her suffering. Which is dogshit storytelling, no matter how much work you put in there. That's why there are so many videos celebrating her death and different killing methods: You can't love a character that is so hated from the get go.

The last point I'm going to make is something that a few other people and I pointed out previously. (And I'm tickling Pandora's box a little bit despite avoiding it before.)
Let's take my favorite example, Dragon Ball. Great story, great characters, now you would say "Yeah, it's a boy-focused show" and yeah, maybe you're right. But the reality is quite simple: Everyone loves Dragon Ball (especially Mexico. Great place, definitely worth a visit). If you just think about analytics and as a business person, you say it's intended for boys, but girls enjoyed it as well. Great fights and a fun and exciting story, which boils down to something that is mentioned multiple times here: If the story is great, nobody cares what or who the main character is. That counts for nearly all media that is out there. Even if it's targeted towards a certain demographic, as long as it piques the interest, anybody can enjoy it.

To conclude all this and end this long ass essay, I just say this:

As content creators ourselves, we should focus on writing great stories with great characters because we want to let them shine in the spotlight. And not because out of obligatory reasons just to have them in there. (Like some sort of Pokémon collection... You sick freak.)

(...And don't make analytics of people. Especially in artfight, Jesus fucking Christ, man. What kind of maniac do you have to be to come to such a conclusion, because some like drawing pretty men without a thought?)

KevinReijnders 2025-08-24 12:42:25 UTC #27

I will say that this is in and of itself a non-answer. It doesn't really show any motivations or reasoning. It's the surface, with much more hiding underneath it. People's interests are not wholly formed from within their own minds and are under the influence of outside factors, such as the societal narratives that are spun.

So trying to delve deeper into the why's and hows is, imo, a valid pursuit.

Though I do agree with you we need to not fall into the pitfall of labeling everyone and everything x, y or z out right because of their interest (or lack thereof) in a certain thing.

Take the example of the current topic, a guy isn't necessarily a misogynist for not being interested in writing a story about a woman. However, it can be said that his lack of interest is in part to blame for having grown up in an environment that doesn't value stories about woman as much as those about men.

PapaDom 2025-08-24 13:09:25 UTC #28

You would be surprised how often it happens that people have just a simple reason for doing things without having any deeper meaning behind it. Speaking from my personal experience, it's 50/50.

For example imagine a guy who has a great personality, is constantly sourrounded by positive female influence, and even likes being around them as friends and such, if he makes a story men only is there any negativity coming from him or deep rooted spite? Maybe, maybe not. Not everyone thinks, acts or is the same.

Or if you don't like drawing dragons. Could be just because it's too hard or complicated for you and you don't want to try it for now. And not because you have herpetophobia.

KevinReijnders 2025-08-24 13:17:33 UTC #29

I'd also argue most folks aren't as aware of their own psychology as they think they are, especially when it has gone mostly unchallenged. So while they may firmly believe in the simple explanation, things aren't usually as simple as they appear to be.

PapaDom 2025-08-24 14:44:23 UTC #30

Look, we can go back and forth as much as we want but in the end, we both make good points. So let's leave it at here.

Pointing at my own nose here. That's the least I can do. x3

Zhengo 2025-08-24 16:25:31 UTC #31

Yeah this is my thinking too. Usually these statistics tend to highlight something else in the current media landscape or culturally, but I'm usually against the quick jump to labeling the statistical cause to a problematic one. One thing to note is that the website that the video examined is more female leaning and LGBTQ+ in demographics.

While I thought it was interesting in the statistics, I was against the video creator's quick jump to some kind of internalized misogyny as one of the possible reasons for the Artfight.net statistics. It kind of reeks to me like some people who are quick to label any woman who primarily enjoys BL as having internal misogyny or gay fetishists. While I don't doubt individuals like that exist, it sometimes feels like reading too deeply into a preference as a cue to attack someone. This is also ignoring the fact that there are also lesbian and ace people who would consider themselves "fujoshi", so the attraction to men wouldn't be at play there.

I actually read an interesting post at one point from a woman who enjoyed BL and her reasoning was quite relatable to me. (Paraphrasing) She mentioned that she wanted to create and consume media where she "doesn't see herself". Even though I am not a BL enjoyer, I actually also use this reasoning when writing my own characters. Although my characters may have aspects of myself, I find it unappealing when a character is just a self insert of me. And although I am PoC and think representation of diverse peoples is important, I am also not someone who cares much about "seeing myself" in characters that look like me physically.

I feel like this desire for the self to be completely detached from fictional media is kind of an overlooked..."mindset demographic"? And this mentality could also be in play for why some women prefer to only create male characters. I'm not entirely sure what would be the demographic for those who prefer to see 0 hints of self representation in the fictional media they create/consume. I kind of imagine it might be more in minority due to how popular self-inserts are in contrast (and I actually feel like a lot of shipping tends to just be the fans wanting to self insert into their favorite character), but who knows.

cherrystark 2025-08-24 17:33:51 UTC #32

Okay, but really this! I do think that most guys write a character or a story because they simply enjoy the character or the archetype. Girls feel constant pressure to write "strong" characters that they're writing characters they probably don't like.

Lensing 2025-08-24 18:40:43 UTC #33

I don´t know what motivates other artists / guys but my motivation to learn how to draw
was and is to draw beautiful women and that´s the main inspiration for my stories.

cherrystark 2025-08-24 18:56:41 UTC #34

I talk about my theory in my original comment. When a guy likes a piece of media, he sees himself in a character even though he might not physically resemble the character. He's simply enjoying the content and if he is a writer, he's writing something he enjoys or sees himself in. Women don't give themselves that grace. Every female character has to be "strong" and every female centered story feminist

TAMAnnoying 2025-08-24 22:11:39 UTC #35

This is why I try to talk people out of chasing "trends" don't write "strong females" because it's currently popular- do it because you enjoy it.

I have three main characters, one is a very quiet but kind male, the other a very loud and violent male, and the other an adventurous girl who likes girly things. I did not make them because I was trying to mark as many check boxes as I could, I made them cause that was the kind of story I wanted to tell

bulgariansumo 2025-08-25 20:21:30 UTC #36

Oh yeah, I agree. I don't think the type of people on ArtFight are intentionally avoiding 'girly' media, but that whole phenomenon leads to a cascade effect where media 'for guys' is celebrated a whole lot more, recommended more, etc.

With anime, for example, is there a recent shoujo anime talked about as much or with the same praise as My Hero Academia, Demon Slayers, or Dadadan? I don't even watch those, and I know about them. I can't name a shoujo series that came out in the last 5 years. When there's less people talking about girls' media, it's harder to know what's out there for people to watch, and that leads to more things with predominantly female casts getting overlooked.

That, and the point @/jwabeasley brought up about users being more inclined towards BL, which in part may be another symptom of guys media being more popular across all demographics. More guy characters = more guys for shippers to ship = more BL.

(Edit: Just read the popular character list jwabeasley posted. Maybe me not being able to think of series for girls is a me issue How'd I forget Oshi no Ko and the buzz around that?)

(Edit edit: Oshi no Ko was in Shounen Jump, so I guess it'd be classified as a shounen? Shounen/Seinen/Shoujo/Josei classifications are a little wibbly-wobbly, from my understanding. Honestly, I think that's pretty cool.)

skullforceagents 2025-08-26 12:47:06 UTC #37

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