Working for free? Worth?

[DemonicHeaven]

Since I'm not a comic creator I don't know how hard it is to make comics but I know it's harder than just writing.
I was curious.

Did you ever work for a writer as an artist? Was it worth the time? Or after a time you got a payment because of the growth of the comic?

On other side, would you work for free? If the "project leader" would say that you might get payment in the future.

I'm just curious what you might think about it since I'm thinking about doing a comic but I'm not good at drawing

[CityGeaArts]

most comic artists here on tapas work for free unless they're popular enough to get ad payouts or they get patrons on patreon

[Rhonder]

That sort of arrangement might rarely work out. The important factors are:

• investment in the story,
• project length, and
• schedule expectations.

For most artists to even consider working for free on someone else's comic, they would have to have a favorable position in each of these areas. i.e. they're really interested in the story, the project length is probably not too long, and the schedule expectations are light or non-existent.

If an artist isn't digging the story, the project is super long (say more than a few months to complete, with the understanding that most hobbyists can only work at about a pace of 1 page per week if they're really on the ball), or the project writer has a strict schedule ("I need 50 panels per week!") then it's almost certainly not worthwhile. At that point even if their writing isn't particularly strong, it's more worthwhile to practice that skill while working on their own IP rather than someone else's.

Generally you might have a better time hashing something out with a friend or someone you've worked with in the past more easily than an internet stranger. If you do want to try and find someone you don't know to try a project out with, I would recommend starting with a short story to lower the barrier of entry. Like 1-20 pages short.

Another consideration is to start training your own drawing skills while you look for someone to work with. You may reach the point that you can make your own comic someday Or if nothing else, a writer with even basic drawing/storyboarding skills to help convey what they're looking for to an artist partner is still a very valuable skill.

[rajillustration]

Generally they will not work for free, especially on this forum where 99% of artists are also writers. They really don't need you to write for them. Perhaps you can find artists looking for writers on discords or places where...artists may not be talking writing shop (especially since there are artists who aren't comfortable writing in English, who may want to get a writer so they can break into English comics) but--you have to prove to them you can write first, and have a portfolio of work.

[migxmeg]

I'm artist only for a comic but I'm married to the writer. Based on our experience, I absolutely can't imagine doing art on a comic for free with a writer that I didn't have a very close relationship with. It's so time consuming that it takes a lot of trust in the writer and love for the story.

[Freemints30]

No, generally. No

Most arstist here are writers working on ther own stuff and there has been millions of thread about unpaid comics collabs for some big project.

Usually those threads are ignored, with few exceptions. (even then I heard there's usually some big falling out for obvious reasons)

Really unless your project is really short, you are already a prolific writer already. Its not worth it. Either wait until you can pay, learn to draw yourself or ask a friend who knows you and loves your project already.

[DiegoPalacios]

[joannekwan]

Did you ever work for a writer as an artist? Was it worth the time? Or after a time you got a payment because of the growth of the comic?

Yes I worked for a writer coming out of college. It was not worth the time.

I did the 'get paid a percentage of the profits' and in total I got less than the single commission project I'm currently working on that will take me less than a month to complete. I don't know if the dude just stopped paying me or the book is just not making any money at all. It's probably the latter. I did a bunch of peripheral art for other projects he wanted to take a stab at, but none of them came to fruition. It's been like 4 years since I last did anything for him.

Honestly I wish I took all my time working for him to work on my own stuff. The one thing I learned doing all that work was never to get into an extensive project like that again, either I get money up-front or no dice.

On other side, would you work for free?

Only if it's one or two pieces (illustration, short story, mini-comic) for a zine and I get a copy of that zine at the end.

[Hodge]

Well I wouldn't say art is harder than writing, but there is enough physical labor involved that hmm its tiring haha. And I really enjoy working with writers too, its so cool to bring their ideas to life!

But I have to be selective of what I choose to draw on a given day cause can only draw for so many hours before my wrist, hand, shoulder, back, . . . everything just starts to hurt lol. So any kind of work that takes more than a day really requires me to be payed to stick with it, since I'm putting aside other things I could be drawing.

[thecrystalrook]

Absolutely not. Working for yourself, fine, you have to start somewhere. If you're working for someone, you absolutely need to paid. Know your worth

[Kaydreamer]

Unless one is a good artist who just has very poor writing skills, I don't see the point in working for free on somebody else's story. Hardly anyone actually reads the end credits of an episode, let alone clicks through to follow the creators on social media. (So credit/exposure is kinda useless.)

And profit, from a webtoon? You have to be very skilled, AND very lucky. I have one Patron, a fraction of a penny of ad revenue on Tapas, and I don't qualify for ad revenue on WEBTOON yet. (And probably ever. ) Unless lightning strikes on WEBTOON and I score a major feature there, this is not a profitable venture. I'm doing it anyway, because I have stories I desperately want to tell, and it's good practice in refining my comic making skills for the publishing industry. (Which is where I hope my income will one day come from.)

You may find young artists with rough skills willing to work for free, but reliability can be an issue due to school and college, and that's where a lot of artist/writer webcomic teams begin to break down. Reliability is less of an issue if you're paying your artist, because delivering on time is a working artist's job.

[amortelito]

As an adult who has bills to pay. I need to invest time into making money to support myself (and family). I really can't jump into a project in hopes of getting something one day.

I do help out and I had made short collabs for fun and friendship. Small comics make very little or no profit.

I had worked for free before ( not in comics) I was learning a specific craft and I made a lot of samples. Now I can charge full price or even higher because I can deliver the quality the customers want. Your payoff can be:

-Getting known (the infamous "paid with exposure")
-Learning the craft
-Having fun
- Getting paid a small fee.

You have to get something out of it because making a comic takes a lot of time and effort. It's time of your life that you could be using doing something else.

[eochoa92]

When I started writing comics, I got along with an artist who illustrated a short for me.
In 2018, he asked if I was willing to help him out by translating a graphic novel he wrote and illustrated from Spanish to English. I agreed.
Would I do it again? Yeah.
My presence in the world of comics is practically non-existent. I wish there was a way for writers to be able to showcase their stuff on places like Instagram and other platforms the way artists can promote or show off their awesome work.
Since that's not the case (with me) I kind of don't think twice about the free route.

[noenoh]

Never work for free unless for a good cause (as any humanitarian project/volunteer) nop nooopes dont listen to the ones irl that try to convince you about exposure or promise profit in the future, that never happens.

[Pandastrophic]

I feel like comics are such a commitment of time and effort that its not worth it unless you're working on your own passion project or that you're getting paid.

If a writer tells me that "I'll be getting paid in the future" it'd really show how little they know about webcomics and how difficult they are to monetize unless you're really popular and lucky.

[thedude3445]

Unless one is a good artist who just has very poor writing skills, I don't see the point in working for free on somebody else's story. Hardly anyone actually reads the end credits of an episode, let alone clicks through to follow the creators on social media. (So credit/exposure is kinda useless.)

(Sorry for singling this post out; I just had to find some random quote from the thread so I could give my slightly different opinion lol)

I actually don't agree with the first part of this, which is that I think good artists should consider working with writers a lot more on their projects. There are so many great artists who do webcomics, but either they can't handle the double duty workload and the comic fizzles after 2 or 3 months, or despite the great designs and art direction, the story and dialogue just doesn't really cut it; if they had a writer they were working with (NOT for), it would have been better for them. I think writing is pretty undervalued in a lot of places and the time/effort is usually underestimated when people want to start a comic. Two people working on a passion project together can result in so much more if both people are equally dedicated.

However, everything else is spot-on, just like everyone else is saying!

The keyword, which is the big issue here, is the somebody else's story part of things. Which is the vast majority of writers seeking artists (and, honestly, artists seeking writers, as rare as that is). "Paying in exposure" or "Paying in profits" is always pretty awful to me, especially when webcomics almost never make any money at all. There's a naive assumption from the part of a lot of people that if they just find some random person, that person will be perfectly willing to work, for free, on some project that they have no personal investment in.

The only way working for free should ever happen (in art OR writing) for anything other than short projects is if all parties involved are actually passionate and interested about what they're doing, even with the expectation that neither of them will ever see a single cent out of it. Nobody should ever work FOR someone for free, but working WITH someone for free, if you find the writer partner or partners, is possible (to me).

So, everyone in this thread is saying exactly how I feel, except that I think there is a narrow, specific exception that shouldn't be overlooked.

[Kaydreamer]

Fair points, there. A friend of mine wrote and staged a play a few months ago which would make an amazing webcomic - it was full of humour, had a unique premise, a sprinkle of romance, and a great setting. One of those stories with the potential to just explode. If I weren't already working on my own story, I'd have asked her if I could adapt hers. I actually gave it some serious thought, but there's no way I could manage making two comics at once right now.

I certainly wouldn't have charged her for it; such a project was something I think we'd have made a fantastic team on.

I guess I didn't really factor in those artists who just aren't very skilled writers. I lucked out and spec'd into both.

[thedude3445]

I love collaborating with people too, even though I never have any time to do it, so I know how you feel!

[Mallory]

The only way I would ever work for "free" (or rather, a share of profits) is if the person was a much better writer than me, with a much more established fanbase, and with a lot more business acumen AND I liked the story AND the majority of the characters AND I got input into the writing and development. AND, if there was a goal and a business mind in sight - i.e. are we gonna pitch it to a publisher or submit to a zine for publication credits or whatever. To be truthful, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've seen a writer looking for an artist who even passed the first requirement (better writer than me). And that's not so much me being full of myself, and more the fact that most amateur writers think they're better writers than they actually are because... they actually haven't written enough to know how to deal with the difficult parts of writing. I mean, I'm certainly not there yet either, but if I'm gonna work with an inexperienced writer, I may as well work with myself lol.

IMO most of these writers looking for collab artist partners should just hunker down, write a novel manuscript, get it published (either traditionally or via an objectively successful (i.e. profitable) attempt at self-publication), then rinse and repeat until they can point to their past experience and say "look, I'm someone who's worth dedicating thousands of hours to, because we will find success, just like my previous ventures". Though I think at that point in time you'd have the business connections to pitch for a paid project from the get-go, so... Yeah. Maybe there is no free lunch.

[sushy00]

I only work for free on my own projects. It is never worth it to work for free for others. I might do a trade but that is not really free work either.