Writing Pet Peeves

[AnnaLandin]

The term Mary-Sue is used for the female variety of this archetype. The male equivalent is a Gary-Stu.

There is no actual set name for the male equivalent - some people use Marty-Stu too.

[Cherry_sama]

There is no actual set name for the male equivalent - some people use Marty-Stu too.

I thought of bringing that up too, but I didn't think it was relevant, seeing as the only place I've seen "Marty-Stu" used is on the Wikipedia article.

[J.Z.Castillo]

@Cherry_sama @AnnaLandin the male equivalent to Mary Sue is just called Batman/Bruce Wayne

[AnnaLandin]

the male equivalent to Mary Sue is just called Batman/Bruce Wayne

Yes this. This so very, very much.

Batman is the Mary-Suest.

[indagold]

I also I forgot a few to mention that all tic me off. I imagine they're more obscure.

I notice a lot of people are trying to do this modernized Brave New world Trope where they try to be topical in their social commentary and use antidepressants as societies way to "control" the populace. First of all you can't get high off anti depressants, in fact you can get mildly ill if you take them without having depression. Most would happen is anxiety, irritability and dizziness. Second of all this "social commentary" I think is just trying to prove mental illness doesn't exist and medication is evil. I guess these people wouldn't use weed in their dystopia because it'd deflate the massive ego stoners have. Of course it would make more sense but you know...

I also hate the whole rabid animal/monster/creature trope where if some creature looks scary and aren't human they are angry and violent 24/7. I really cannot stand horror and suspense that does this. I feel it becomes much more boring that all the scary paranormal stuff is just a roid raging monster that needs anger management.

[El_Psy_Congroo]

one of my biggest pet peeves though is issue stories by people who haven't experienced the issues they're writing about. i've seen really good advice that goes like "if you aren't x, you can write a story featuring x, but don't write a story about what it's like to be x" obviously i think social issues should be explored in fiction but there's a fine line there

I like this, and I try to adhere to it to a degree. But I think there comes a point where, no matter how much you try to stick to your own experiences, as a writer you simply have to do research, and really actively empathize with what/who you're trying to portray. And learning what "x's" experiences are like may add a lot of depth to your story. If you're writing a story about a family, you don't have to have been a mother, a daughter, a father, and a son at some point in your life (although a person who has actually experienced all of these would make for the subject of an interesting story in its own right).

IMHO, the "main character personality" @El_Psy_Congroo is talking about is often one that is empty. It's the equivalent to the archetypical farmboy-turned-hero, and we've a.) seen it before so many times that we know how this goes, thus removing the suspense, and b.) when a character is too bland, it stops being relatable. There's nothing there to relate to. There's just a blank slate.

YES. THIS. Exactly. I think these kinds of stories are okay for a certain age group in mind. As a kid I would love inserting myself into fantasy stories and it didn't matter how blank the main character I was trying to be was - it may have even helped. But I suppose as I got older I've became a bit more removed from what I read and what I look for now is insight into other "minds" that are not my own.

If its not a result of poor writing and the conscious purpose is to actually have the reader insert themselves into the story, then maybe you could make the argument that its a matter of preference. So maybe its similar to the question "Do you prefer Japanese or Western RPGs?"

Haha but I guess my super biased counter argument would be that it doesn't matter which games you 'prefer' - JRPGs still have better stories regardless =]

[El_Psy_Congroo]

While I do think mental illness exists, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem of over-prescription of psychiatric medications, or that people self-medicate when they have external problems, or that people lie to get their hands on drugs they don't need to sell or use themselves. There's a good argument that systemic problems in society leads to these things and good social commentary to be had there.

Although I will admit, I haven't really read anything that commented well on it without devolving into cynicism and/or conspiracy. I think the problem is that the imagery and idioms of this trope are so common people easily adopt them in their works without really thinking deeply about what they want these things to convey. It becomes less about commentary and more about tone.

Regarding the first thing I said, my mom's a practicing Psychiatrist, if you consider that something that lends my opinion a bit more credibility.

[Cherry_sama]

the male equivalent to Mary Sue is just called Batman/Bruce Wayne

Yes this. This so very, very much.

Batman is the Mary-Suest.

Actually, I found Wolverine to be a bigger Gary-Stu than Batman. Then again, I am just going on what the animated series showed me. XD Either way, I raise your Bruce Wayne with the mythological Zeus: a guy who can do no wrong in his universe, broke the succession myth* for no good reason, and had over 100 different lovers.

*(The Succession Myth is the idea in Greek Mythology that the father will eventually by overthrown by the son, despite how much the father will try to stay in power. Cronus overthrew Uranus, Zeus overthrew Cronus, and Athena was SUPPOSED to overthrow Zeus, but Athena was just kinda like "whateves", and was perfectly happy being ruled by the daddy who devoured her mother--while she was pregnant with Athena--to keep Athena from being born. Greek Mythology is messed up.)

[WakaXO]

Same here, it's always really bothered me, so when I decided to make a superhero comic I planned in detail how my characters would end up getting their costumes. There needs to be an explication, even if it's only a one-liner! 😅

[indagold]

Yeah I agree with you. Never have I seen it address the actual problem and that's why i'm mentioning it. I feel it contributes to problems understanding why medication is used and understanding that depression and other disorders do exist. So far it's just "medication is society dulling you". I have never really seen it pushed any farther.

[mariusthered]

I thought of another one,

when in your comic everything happens in the same night/day but in reality it takes a whole month to post it

[J.Z.Castillo]

NO! This is the worst type of complain. Just sit down and enjoy the story.

[popsiclestick]

side eyes my own comic re. the put-upon main character trope
I do try and put in hints that my protagonist sports his own mean streak - partially as a defence mechanism. If Archer was perfect, the entire plot wouldn't make sense and I'd get bored writing him. I /do/ get annoyed at Cinderella type characters where the MC is a perfect, broken angel who is mercilessly bullied by the entire cast, who seem to /all/ be terrible people with no motivation behind their actions.

[Cherry_sama]

Ha ha ha, guilty as charged. XD Though, it was for an older comic of mine, so...

[jessicasurline]

Oh no! I'm guilty of this! My writer thought it would be cool to add in some memoir pages after we layed out the first chapter. We didn't have the budget or time to smoothly add them into the visuals so they ended up as pages of text... Thankfully though if you skip them they will not ruin the experience, they are additional info.

[Fridgewriter]

Here's a few of mine:

Psycho SO
The psycho SO is a boyfriend,girlfriend or spouse that is connected to one of the main characters who has absolutely no redeeming value as a person and there is no reasonable explanation why they've been with each other for so long. That is, outside of the obvious out-of-story reason so the main character can hook up with a nicer, sweeter love interest and we don't feel guilty that this person got tossed aside. It speaks really ill of the partner we're supposed to care about, as well as feel really cheap like a Wrestling Heel.

Shoot the Shaggy Dog
Shaggy dog stories, where characters go on a quest revealed to be utterly pointless, feel really hollow wastes of everyone's time and it's even worse when it's just a sea of misery and we hope there's some success at the end, but nope. The Moral is "Life Sucks". I already know this lesson. There's no growth, and I feel like a chump rooting for the hero by the end. That's not to say bad ends are awful or we can't learn something from a character's defeat but there needs to be something more than just that.

Soap Boxing
Social issues are great fodder for stories, but when I feel like I'm just reading a comic book screed that should have been a long post on a subreddit or a editorial at a newspaper, we got a problem. This is usually a story infested with cheap straw-men and our hero being completely right all the time. Even when it's something I want to agree with, I just roll my eyes. This isn't rocket science. Present both cases fairly. Take the better looking arguments from real speakers, unless you're planning a character like Bane in the Dark Knight Rises who only provides cheap lip service to a cause.

Broken Aesop
If you made a whole story about how superheroics/cars/guns/knives/twinkies and are bad, perhaps you shouldn't show us the heroes using those things to save the day, over and over again. Batman v Superman is a sterling example of this problem.

[scythe]

Soap Boxing Social issues are great fodder for stories, but when I feel like I'm just reading a comic book screed that should have been a long post on a subreddit or a editorial at a newspaper, we got a problem. This is usually a story infested with cheap straw-men and our hero being completely right all the time. Even when it's something I want to agree with, I just roll my eyes. This isn't rocket science. Present both cases fairly. Take the better looking arguments from real speakers, unless you're planning a character like Bane in the Dark Knight Rises who only provides cheap lip service to a cause.

This is probably the biggest thing that turns me off reading a comic, and in fact, I just stopped reading on that I was really getting into, because the author kept contriving ever more elaborate and unrealistic straw men just so the main character could virtue signal how progressive she was. There was even sometimes extra narration outside of the dialogue further outlining the author's opinions on the topic of the scene. It really ripped me out of the story and made it feel exactly like what you described, that I was actually reading an editorial disguised as a comic.

[Fridgewriter]

I just stopped reading on that I was really getting into, because the author kept contriving ever more elaborate and unrealistic straw men just so the main character could virtue signal how progressive she was. There was even sometimes extra narration outside of the dialogue further outlining the author's opinions on the topic of the scene.

Some times the escalation gets so absurd it boomerangs and becomes this amazingly entertaining spoof of whatever platform they were putting on a pedestal, but that doesn't happen as often as I'd like.
Jack Chick's infamous Dark Dungeons tract comic is my favorite go to where pen and paper role playing games are some kind of "The Last Starfighter" that cults use to teach young kids real dark magic spells. I had fun giving those out to my gaming group for fun. Then again, Jack Chick's comics are there to sell us on being a very specific kind of religious and not to give us an open discussion on Dungeons and Dragons.

But this is easy to avoid: your characters don't have to be right all the time or we learn not everyone on one side is bad and not everyone on the other is a saint who is doing this all for the right reasons.

[avalonmao]

Oh shit that's my prologue heh....gg