10 REAL writing advice without sugar-coating

[HGohwell]

I found between my own experience and the writing books a popular author writes...because, well, most of them are unhelpful jibber jabber.

Most of these sort of books are meant for beginner writers, that's why. There are some amazing writing books out there, but the big popular ones are the easily digestible beginner ones. Personally, I love Sol Stein's Stein On Writing that gives a more down to earth, helpful realistic look at writing. Just like the most popular writing advice youtube channels are often just lists of the same basic tropes and advice over and over in 20 minute chunks because they're for beginners vs the channels that do several parts for up to an hour at a time going in depth.And just like how the most popular art books art "how to draw" and go over the same basic lessons over and over in different fonts.

4- EVERY INSPIRATIONAL WRITING BS IS BS. "write what YOU think is good" "not everyone will like your work" "people have different taste"....don't listen to these. Or, it's better to say don't fully believe it. Sometimes, what you write is just crap, and that's all there is to it. It's not like there's anything wrong with you. You just have to practice more. Of course ART IS OBJECTIVE but don't use those words as an excuse to stop improving.

This is conflating 2 different issues. You absolutely should write what you think is good. No, not everyone will like your work and, yes, people do have different tastes. None of this is wrong. There's a perfectly good point here about taking criticism and not letting the idea of people having different tastes stopping you improving but that "inspirational bs" is actually good advice that is objectively true.

I used to do a GL mystery novel on Wattpad with my other account called The Journal Of Lanie Wally. But I dropped it when I saw poeople only talking about the lesbian relationship instead of thr ACTUAL STORY GOING ON.

You know GL is a type of Romance right? If you tag it GL it's romance. Wow, people read a romance and were interested in the romance? Here's some non-sugar coated advice, even taking from your own earlier advice about making excuses: don't blame your readers. Maybe your GL romance was just the most engaging part of your story. Or maybe you tagged the wrong genre. While it's perfectly valid to say you want one part stronger than the other, if all your audience is talking about is the minor part, you've either tagged the wrong genre or your writing is weak in that area. And dropping it because is pretty petty, to be honest. As a reader, I'd be wary of reading works from an author who just drops works like that.

Also, while it fine to say you don't tag these things, they're important tags. Because they help people find books they're interested in. Maybe lesbians want to find GL. Maybe trans people want to find stories about trans people. And maybe some assholes will throw a tantrum and spam you if they expected a het romance and got a gay one.

Not to mention bad representation is not the same as forced. Maybe rookie writers aren't forcing it, maybe they want to write a romance that's includes these things because they want to. Maybe it's unnatural because they're rookies and don't have a grasp on writing yet, let alone good romance. And why just LGBT? You just gonna ignore all the veteran writers who write unnatural, god awful, forced straight romance? This isn't an LGBT thing, or a rookie thing, this is a writing in general thing where some time people just suck at writing romance.

Sorry if a lot of this seems harsh, but while this advice seems like it's coming from the right place, the not sugar-coating just makes it come off as rude in places and almost like you're trying to be edgy and undermining your own point in others. Not to mention, doesn't seem like it's taking Tapas' specific market into account, especially with the LGBT points, where this is a big plus. You seem to be playing cynicism and negativity as honesty a little.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

I enjoyed the snarky approach, and I think there's some good advice in there.
1. & 2. are kinda just facing reality.
4. the "BS" works for some people who find satisfaction in the writing itself. For me, a story told without audience appreciation is like a tree falling in the forest.
5. Yup.
7. & 10. seem like different views of the same issue. If writing about something that really exists, it behooves the writer to try to get the facts right.

[darthmongoose]

This is just my two cents, but I think this is kind of a mean question...? ^^; I mean, personally I've been giving writing advice for years, and nothing I've written has been published or 'successful' by any stretch of the imagination (and yet, I've never been asked this...probably because it's mean...).

I'll assume you're expecting a 'no' (which I understand tbh) but if OP were to answer 'yes', would it really change how you feel about their advice...? Is it not enough to criticize it on its own merits? Lots of professionals give bad advice every day; getting a book published or even just getting people to look at it isn't necessarily an indication of artistic skill or insight.

I wouldn't have asked it if the advice given had more humility to the tone. Say I'm being mean if you wish, that's a fair opinion, but... isn't saying all the other advice given by writers is "BS" mean? That's a very mean thing to say, and it's an extremely arrogant thing to say!

If somebody is willing to step up into a public place and say, "listen, ALL the other inspiring advice you've read from popular writers? It's BULLSHIT. Here is my REAL advice for you." then I feel like they ought to have something to back that up. Why is their advice more real than the advice somebody like Neil Gaiman gives from his experience of years of successful writing? What qualifies them to say that?

Also, the advice isn't simply about stuff a person whose qualifications are "I finished a bunch of novels" is perfectly qualified to give. You can give helpful advice without being a success, like if somebody finished a bunch of chapters, I'm sure they'd give great advice on how to keep going, stay focused and motivated, have discipline, avoid writing themselves into a corner: all good stuff! BUT this advice isn't all about that, it's like "Don't put forced diversity into your novel." WHY? Based on what outcome can OP say that not putting "forced diversity" into books is a good idea? Did not putting it in lead to success, or is OP just saying a bunch of stuff? If there's no evidence that doing so was actually helpful, it's not good advice.

And so, since OP says they have written ten books, but their Tapas profile only has one with less than 50 subs, and no links so I can see what following these guidelines has resulted in... the question hangs there... what's the evidence that this advice is effective? So to answer your question, yes, actually, if OP turned out to be actually hugely popular on certain platforms, it would change how I feel about the advice, because then it might be reframed as "might not be great advice for Tapas, but might be good advice on KDP or in print of something based on this evidence."

[IndigoShirtProd]

Do you mean a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it?

[bulgariansumo]

"A novel with smarty words and good vocabulary is automatically superior to the one with bad vocabulary" yes...this is the rule.

I feel like there is a point where this stops being true. That point, I think, is where it sounds like the author used a thesaurus for every other word. Like the kind of writer who refuses to use 'said' as a dialogue tag and resorts to strange, unfitting synonyms.* Sometimes simplicity works best.

I can't say I'm giving this advice from a place of having successful writing, but I have read my fair share of bad writing.

*(I'll admit that I also don't use 'said,' but I try to at least use fitting synonyms and spice up how I do dialogue tags in order for it not to sound awkward. But even still, using 'said' is not illegal. Don't overuse it, of course, but sometimes it's the word you need!)
--

While I personally think having more diverse representation is important, I don't have an issue with point 8 itself. If someone comes up with a story that just so happens to not have any LGBT+, POC, etc. characters, I don't think that's a crime. Those types of stories have been and will continue to be liked if they resonate with people, even marginalized groups.

The thing I find kind of silly is the bit about fans focusing on a relationship instead of the actual story. That's... kind of how a big swath of fandom operates. It doesn't really say anything good or bad about the quality of the story or the representation. People will find a reason to ship anything. I personally find the hyperfocus on shipping a little annoying at times. I'm not looking forward to it happening to my own work (assuming it gets popular enough )

But the thing that has to be remembered is, that is a form of love. Those people liked your characters. They could've shipped two characters from some other series, or made up their own (and maybe they did), but they chose to focus on your characters.

If people only focus on one aspect of your story while seemingly ignoring the rest, it's natural to feel upset by that. Again, it doesn't mean your story has nothing else of value. People just REALLY like shipping. Considering that you described it as a GL mystery novel and not "a mystery novel that just happened to have two women in love," I imagine that relationship was fairly important to the story.

[Ordinaryaverageguy]

Yes. I assumed the reference would be enough & I didn't need to fill out the whole thing.

[bulgariansumo]

And so, since OP says they have written ten books, but their Tapas profile only has one with less than 50 subs,

I do agree that OP is going to have to do a lot more convincing if they want to present themselves as an authority like this. But I checked out the stats and likes-wise, their novel is doing really well for its genre. Compared to the like totals of the current 100 most popular novels in the same genre, it's in top 10 by a long shot. Almost top 5. Not to mention that right now it's toward the top (I dunno if OP wants people to find their novel from this thread, so I won't say which place.)

Since they're writing a in less popular genre, it still might not be the best advice for writing on Tapas specifically, but I wouldn't take the numbers OP managed to achieve lightly. Even the sub count. They're doing better than the vast majority of novellists on here that aren't writing in a romance genre.

[LunarScyphozoa]

Your tone here is a bit more “All other writers are garbage” than “I’m very good”, which makes me personally very reluctant to consider your advice.

[abigaillmartin]

Yeah I agree. When I first read it I felt it was a little like woah!

[Mallory]

I think it's your sentence and paragraph flow that make you seem like a sophisticated writer rather than what words you use, to be honest. There are some authors who are recognized as literary geniuses who use a pretty sparse vocabulary because they manage to get the most out of every word they use based on context. My language actually got more simple as I became more experienced (thought I did get some brain damage in the part of my brain that's responsible for language and words, so it's certainly become harder to think of more unique words. I don't think it's affected my writing that much though, and most of my beta readers like the newer writing more).

[DasIstWunderblyat]

The fact about how your readers are talking about the lesbian relationship instead of the main mystery plot may be also caused by the fact that readers tend to comment on fun, simpler, and catchy things. They most likely do fully notice the whole mystery going on, but they just don't comment on it for some reasons. Probably they have theories, but think it's silly so they never said it. Probably they want to analyze a character, but they're worried to get it wrong. Probably they just remember an unpleasant feeling of having to do book reviews having to dissect the theme and choose to comment on the shipping instead.

You only know what on a reader's mind by their comment, and it's only a small fraction. You don't even know what's in the mind of those who don't comment. I feel like it's a waste to stop writing because of that. I don't get shipping but it's fine as it's harmless fun. Unless someone is starting to get harassed or sucked into a conflict which is also a cause many people quit a scene.

Also you can't control what readers think (unless you want to be a dictator author). Plus, part of their perception is shaped by what we write, and how we conveyed it. Maybe it comes out differently as being perceived by most other people, than by us.

It reminds me of a person who discouraged people to like their villain. No, I don't want your shitty projection protagonist, so I pick the one who make them suffer. Thanks.

[DasIstWunderblyat]

Also about the vocabulary thingy, it reminds me of the weird translation I often see in imported products or those of my own. (I am an ESL)

The vocabulary is fancy, and it is used in appropriate context. For example:
"Our food commands excellent gustatory sensations"
Yet it sounds stilted and unnatural, and you can obviously discern that they don't speak English

Compare with:
"Our food fills your tongue with joy,"
Which use average vocabularies, but sounds more conmunicative and appealing.

Reminds me of this

But hey, I think aside that and what other people have pointed out, your advice hold some truth!

[Panpan]

I would’ve failed if I followed some of these points haha. I do write what I think is good, and people like it if there’s something weird about a certain a paragraph I wrote, they let me know in my server.

Also with the vocab point #6, this is truly an opinion by the OP. Read any big novel on tapas and most don’t use all that flowery fluff to make a novel “smarter.” In fact, it’s pretty simple, just worded and edited well. I really can’t see why someone would wanna use complicated vocab just to make it look more adult unless that was the style they’re going for, but good luck attracting an audience on a website that’s made of mainly teens, young adults, and others looking for a casual read lol.

[Hayka]

I havent. That's why I said they don't work. They usually say pretty words to motivate you and sell their work. Kickass Writer was one of the good ones I read that gave legit advice.
And as to the question, well I finished my first volume and am about to publish. I started many series, especially on wattpad, got some high ranks, but never got to FINISH them. This one is the first novel I finished and am halfway done with editing.uploading. Check it out ig.

[Hayka]

hmmm...I guess...well they're too...ummm...pessimitic and toxic in a way to be called ADVICE. I had a tough time writing, just thought I should share experience. If you were looking for "do your best and write what you like" then sorry to disappoint. That was NOT my experience

[Hayka]

yeah I know. I was just saying "write LGBT well" since it has more audience and thus...more respnsibility and stronger representation

[Hayka]

yeah I know about the risks, but I'll still do it.
I want my LGBT ships to progress with a good pace without people looking for it. It's fun making a ship that someone who wasn't expecting it finds it cute and wholesome, and I don't write LGBT focused novels, they're usually thriller and fantasy and psychological with LGBT ships. So I don't want people to look for smth that's not the focus, and be surprised (or mad) when it happens.

[Hayka]

This is a bit...eeeeeehhhh...like, I feel like it's kind of right, but also kind of wrong...?

reminds me of that Kaguya meme :3
oh yeah vocab isnt the only way, thats why I said don't take it seriously. It's just one of the ways to improve it, and its definitely important, but vocab and grammar being everything is just smth in the past for classic novels. webnovels don't need to have that and people read stories they enjoy. so yeah don't really take that statement seriously.

Dropping a story just because your fans aren't engaging with it "correctly" is not exactly a professional attitude

indeed indeed. I actually had more reasons, but that kinda got me tired. It was a heavy mystery series and it got #140 in wattpad mystery section so it was pretty popular a couple of years ago, and most of the comments were just people looking for cute lgbt moments, which was not what I intended. So I removed it for a rewrite later on a platform where the majority care about the story and don't lose focus. I do like it when people comment on cute GL moments but not when that's ALL they comment on. Imagine dropping a HUGE plot twist that would change everything in the flow of your story, and then someone goes "uwu cute girls being cute" I was literally frozen in front of pc, staring blankly at the comment, thinking "wait that's all?" it kinda made me lose heart because whenever I was hyped posting layered dialogue or some good mystery, they never commented on it, like how a little dialogue back in chapter 3 played a big part in chapter 14. But yeah. That was quite unprofessional...maybe I'll start it again sometime.

[Hayka]

that "inspirational bs" is actually good advice that is objectively true

it is, I said so. "Art is objective" that IS true. I just said "don't use it as an excuse to not improve"

If you tag it GL it's romance.

Ahhh no you got me wrong it wasn't really a romance. The story was about a mysterious murder and a ghost writing a journal to a girl about her adventures in the afterlife and how those two stories link and connect with each other as the girl tries to run away from a murderer looking for her looking for clues in the journal that spirit left behind. There's a lot of stuff happening other than romance. But yeah I do agree, The ship was good, and I'm not complaining because people commented about it. I'm complaining because no one commented about other things. I wrote GL because I wanted to do some representation and have a cute yuri ship in it, and it went well with the twists of the story, but imagnie you make a huge plot twist and are excited to see people react to it by connecting the dots from previous chapters and say "woah" and then what you get is EVEN MORE comments on the GL part :3 its kinda not cool if you think about it.

Maybe lesbians want to find GL

oh I don't write LGBT focused. I just add some ships wherever I see two characters will make a cute couple and makes the story better. I usually write fantasy/psychological/thriller/mystery. Also, I know all of that. Ya don't need to tell me it's wrong because people look for what they want but still. Wouldn't you seriously be pissed when people disregard your attempts to write a good story and just talk about how cute the girls are?

You seem to be playing cynicism and negativity as honesty a little.

that's a good line. I like it. Yeah I have a negative view on the topic, which is mostly related to my personality and the experiences I've had with writing.

sugar-coating just makes it come off as rude

yeah I know I don't mind. I was actually prepared for some beating

[Hayka]

I enjoyed the snarky approach

ahhh I'm usually not that snarky, but I decided to share my REAL experience (even if they are crappy), and some stuff I think people are too worked up about, like that whole thing with being a "ripoff"