10 REAL writing advice without sugar-coating

darthmongoose 2022-12-26 19:13:32 UTC #9

I wouldn't have asked it if the advice given had more humility to the tone. Say I'm being mean if you wish, that's a fair opinion, but... isn't saying all the other advice given by writers is "BS" mean? That's a very mean thing to say, and it's an extremely arrogant thing to say!

If somebody is willing to step up into a public place and say, "listen, ALL the other inspiring advice you've read from popular writers? It's BULLSHIT. Here is my REAL advice for you." then I feel like they ought to have something to back that up. Why is their advice more real than the advice somebody like Neil Gaiman gives from his experience of years of successful writing? What qualifies them to say that?

Also, the advice isn't simply about stuff a person whose qualifications are "I finished a bunch of novels" is perfectly qualified to give. You can give helpful advice without being a success, like if somebody finished a bunch of chapters, I'm sure they'd give great advice on how to keep going, stay focused and motivated, have discipline, avoid writing themselves into a corner: all good stuff! BUT this advice isn't all about that, it's like "Don't put forced diversity into your novel." WHY? Based on what outcome can OP say that not putting "forced diversity" into books is a good idea? Did not putting it in lead to success, or is OP just saying a bunch of stuff? If there's no evidence that doing so was actually helpful, it's not good advice.

And so, since OP says they have written ten books, but their Tapas profile only has one with less than 50 subs, and no links so I can see what following these guidelines has resulted in... the question hangs there... what's the evidence that this advice is effective? So to answer your question, yes, actually, if OP turned out to be actually hugely popular on certain platforms, it would change how I feel about the advice, because then it might be reframed as "might not be great advice for Tapas, but might be good advice on KDP or in print of something based on this evidence."

IndigoShirtProd 2022-12-26 22:08:17 UTC #10

Do you mean a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it?

bulgariansumo 2022-12-26 22:15:22 UTC #11

I feel like there is a point where this stops being true. That point, I think, is where it sounds like the author used a thesaurus for every other word. Like the kind of writer who refuses to use 'said' as a dialogue tag and resorts to strange, unfitting synonyms.* Sometimes simplicity works best.

I can't say I'm giving this advice from a place of having successful writing, but I have read my fair share of bad writing.

*(I'll admit that I also don't use 'said,' but I try to at least use fitting synonyms and spice up how I do dialogue tags in order for it not to sound awkward. But even still, using 'said' is not illegal. Don't overuse it, of course, but sometimes it's the word you need!)
--

While I personally think having more diverse representation is important, I don't have an issue with point 8 itself. If someone comes up with a story that just so happens to not have any LGBT+, POC, etc. characters, I don't think that's a crime. Those types of stories have been and will continue to be liked if they resonate with people, even marginalized groups.

The thing I find kind of silly is the bit about fans focusing on a relationship instead of the actual story. That's... kind of how a big swath of fandom operates. It doesn't really say anything good or bad about the quality of the story or the representation. People will find a reason to ship anything. I personally find the hyperfocus on shipping a little annoying at times. I'm not looking forward to it happening to my own work (assuming it gets popular enough )

But the thing that has to be remembered is, that is a form of love. Those people liked your characters. They could've shipped two characters from some other series, or made up their own (and maybe they did), but they chose to focus on your characters.

If people only focus on one aspect of your story while seemingly ignoring the rest, it's natural to feel upset by that. Again, it doesn't mean your story has nothing else of value. People just REALLY like shipping. Considering that you described it as a GL mystery novel and not "a mystery novel that just happened to have two women in love," I imagine that relationship was fairly important to the story.

Ordinaryaverageguy 2022-12-26 22:44:40 UTC #12

Yes. I assumed the reference would be enough & I didn't need to fill out the whole thing.

bulgariansumo 2022-12-26 23:45:07 UTC #13

I do agree that OP is going to have to do a lot more convincing if they want to present themselves as an authority like this. But I checked out the stats and likes-wise, their novel is doing really well for its genre. Compared to the like totals of the current 100 most popular novels in the same genre, it's in top 10 by a long shot. Almost top 5. Not to mention that right now it's toward the top (I dunno if OP wants people to find their novel from this thread, so I won't say which place.)

Since they're writing a in less popular genre, it still might not be the best advice for writing on Tapas specifically, but I wouldn't take the numbers OP managed to achieve lightly. Even the sub count. They're doing better than the vast majority of novellists on here that aren't writing in a romance genre.

LunarScyphozoa 2022-12-26 23:59:11 UTC #14

Your tone here is a bit more “All other writers are garbage” than “I’m very good”, which makes me personally very reluctant to consider your advice.

abigaillmartin 2022-12-27 00:03:55 UTC #15

Yeah I agree. When I first read it I felt it was a little like woah!

Mallory 2022-12-27 00:11:02 UTC #16

I think it's your sentence and paragraph flow that make you seem like a sophisticated writer rather than what words you use, to be honest. There are some authors who are recognized as literary geniuses who use a pretty sparse vocabulary because they manage to get the most out of every word they use based on context. My language actually got more simple as I became more experienced (thought I did get some brain damage in the part of my brain that's responsible for language and words, so it's certainly become harder to think of more unique words. I don't think it's affected my writing that much though, and most of my beta readers like the newer writing more).

DasIstWunderblyat 2022-12-27 00:57:42 UTC #17

The fact about how your readers are talking about the lesbian relationship instead of the main mystery plot may be also caused by the fact that readers tend to comment on fun, simpler, and catchy things. They most likely do fully notice the whole mystery going on, but they just don't comment on it for some reasons. Probably they have theories, but think it's silly so they never said it. Probably they want to analyze a character, but they're worried to get it wrong. Probably they just remember an unpleasant feeling of having to do book reviews having to dissect the theme and choose to comment on the shipping instead.

You only know what on a reader's mind by their comment, and it's only a small fraction. You don't even know what's in the mind of those who don't comment. I feel like it's a waste to stop writing because of that. I don't get shipping but it's fine as it's harmless fun. Unless someone is starting to get harassed or sucked into a conflict which is also a cause many people quit a scene.

Also you can't control what readers think (unless you want to be a dictator author). Plus, part of their perception is shaped by what we write, and how we conveyed it. Maybe it comes out differently as being perceived by most other people, than by us.

It reminds me of a person who discouraged people to like their villain. No, I don't want your shitty projection protagonist, so I pick the one who make them suffer. Thanks.

DasIstWunderblyat 2022-12-27 01:39:08 UTC #18

Also about the vocabulary thingy, it reminds me of the weird translation I often see in imported products or those of my own. (I am an ESL)

The vocabulary is fancy, and it is used in appropriate context. For example:
"Our food commands excellent gustatory sensations"
Yet it sounds stilted and unnatural, and you can obviously discern that they don't speak English

Compare with:
"Our food fills your tongue with joy,"
Which use average vocabularies, but sounds more conmunicative and appealing.

Reminds me of this

But hey, I think aside that and what other people have pointed out, your advice hold some truth!

Panpan 2022-12-27 02:11:05 UTC #19

I would’ve failed if I followed some of these points haha. I do write what I think is good, and people like it if there’s something weird about a certain a paragraph I wrote, they let me know in my server.

Also with the vocab point #6, this is truly an opinion by the OP. Read any big novel on tapas and most don’t use all that flowery fluff to make a novel “smarter.” In fact, it’s pretty simple, just worded and edited well. I really can’t see why someone would wanna use complicated vocab just to make it look more adult unless that was the style they’re going for, but good luck attracting an audience on a website that’s made of mainly teens, young adults, and others looking for a casual read lol.

Hayka 2022-12-27 06:59:09 UTC #20

I havent. That's why I said they don't work. They usually say pretty words to motivate you and sell their work. Kickass Writer was one of the good ones I read that gave legit advice.
And as to the question, well I finished my first volume and am about to publish. I started many series, especially on wattpad, got some high ranks, but never got to FINISH them. This one is the first novel I finished and am halfway done with editing.uploading. Check it out ig.

Hayka 2022-12-27 07:01:32 UTC #21

hmmm...I guess...well they're too...ummm...pessimitic and toxic in a way to be called ADVICE. I had a tough time writing, just thought I should share experience. If you were looking for "do your best and write what you like" then sorry to disappoint. That was NOT my experience

Hayka 2022-12-27 07:07:05 UTC #23

yeah I know. I was just saying "write LGBT well" since it has more audience and thus...more respnsibility and stronger representation

Hayka 2022-12-27 07:10:22 UTC #24

yeah I know about the risks, but I'll still do it.
I want my LGBT ships to progress with a good pace without people looking for it. It's fun making a ship that someone who wasn't expecting it finds it cute and wholesome, and I don't write LGBT focused novels, they're usually thriller and fantasy and psychological with LGBT ships. So I don't want people to look for smth that's not the focus, and be surprised (or mad) when it happens.

Hayka 2022-12-27 07:24:36 UTC #25

reminds me of that Kaguya meme :3
oh yeah vocab isnt the only way, thats why I said don't take it seriously. It's just one of the ways to improve it, and its definitely important, but vocab and grammar being everything is just smth in the past for classic novels. webnovels don't need to have that and people read stories they enjoy. so yeah don't really take that statement seriously.

indeed indeed. I actually had more reasons, but that kinda got me tired. It was a heavy mystery series and it got #140 in wattpad mystery section so it was pretty popular a couple of years ago, and most of the comments were just people looking for cute lgbt moments, which was not what I intended. So I removed it for a rewrite later on a platform where the majority care about the story and don't lose focus. I do like it when people comment on cute GL moments but not when that's ALL they comment on. Imagine dropping a HUGE plot twist that would change everything in the flow of your story, and then someone goes "uwu cute girls being cute" I was literally frozen in front of pc, staring blankly at the comment, thinking "wait that's all?" it kinda made me lose heart because whenever I was hyped posting layered dialogue or some good mystery, they never commented on it, like how a little dialogue back in chapter 3 played a big part in chapter 14. But yeah. That was quite unprofessional...maybe I'll start it again sometime.

Hayka 2022-12-27 07:40:05 UTC #26

it is, I said so. "Art is objective" that IS true. I just said "don't use it as an excuse to not improve"

Ahhh no you got me wrong it wasn't really a romance. The story was about a mysterious murder and a ghost writing a journal to a girl about her adventures in the afterlife and how those two stories link and connect with each other as the girl tries to run away from a murderer looking for her looking for clues in the journal that spirit left behind. There's a lot of stuff happening other than romance. But yeah I do agree, The ship was good, and I'm not complaining because people commented about it. I'm complaining because no one commented about other things. I wrote GL because I wanted to do some representation and have a cute yuri ship in it, and it went well with the twists of the story, but imagnie you make a huge plot twist and are excited to see people react to it by connecting the dots from previous chapters and say "woah" and then what you get is EVEN MORE comments on the GL part :3 its kinda not cool if you think about it.

oh I don't write LGBT focused. I just add some ships wherever I see two characters will make a cute couple and makes the story better. I usually write fantasy/psychological/thriller/mystery. Also, I know all of that. Ya don't need to tell me it's wrong because people look for what they want but still. Wouldn't you seriously be pissed when people disregard your attempts to write a good story and just talk about how cute the girls are?

that's a good line. I like it. Yeah I have a negative view on the topic, which is mostly related to my personality and the experiences I've had with writing.

yeah I know I don't mind. I was actually prepared for some beating

Hayka 2022-12-27 07:42:59 UTC #27

ahhh I'm usually not that snarky, but I decided to share my REAL experience (even if they are crappy), and some stuff I think people are too worked up about, like that whole thing with being a "ripoff"

Hayka 2022-12-27 08:01:35 UTC #28

yeah that's my first book as Hayka. I've written under my own name and the name Alice Quill for a while on wattpad. I'm not gonna mention my real name but I did make a rather popular series on wattpad. And no I never called what author says "BS" I said "inspirational BS" I have read great advice from great writers and I do love Gaiman. He makes a lot of witty dialogue, which I really love. wait did I even mention writing guides from popular authors in that point? oh naaah. of course art is objective, but I just said don't use that as an excuse to stop improving my work. If I believed that I would've been stuck with my "good and bad" series which was honestly just badly-written. But I kept calling it "crap" instead of "art is objective" and improved it and turned it into a huge series.

If you're talking about this, well yeah I still do believe this. You see, the writing advice an author gives is something applicable to THEM. That was how THEY got the recognition. So yeah they are unhelpful, although I've read some amazing ones "kickass writer" is an example of a REALLY GOOD writing book in which even the author explicitly states that most of it will be unhelpful jibber jabber because thats the way THE AUTHOR does it, and it shouldn't be YOUR method. So I respect that book. If you wanna read only one writing book, it should be that one. Recommended
Well anyway, I just recently started pro-writing and left the ones I did for fun. I'll rewrite them once I'm finished with my first series, or I might just do them while writing my main series little by little. So to answer your question, no I havent accomplished much if we ignore the GL series I did in wattpad which got pretty popular back in 2019. But yeah, I still won't take back anything I said because it was my honest opinion and I was ready for people not liking it.

Hayka 2022-12-27 08:13:19 UTC #29

can relate. SAID is tough. And my current novel is 70% important dialogue so its really tough.

oh I did say to not take it seriously, this is a thing from the past and for traditional pubbing; nowadays people are looking for a good story; and yeah I do read dictionaries and use thesaurus. But not for "all words" I mean, I do have to improve my writing style. Even if simplicity does work best, It doesnt mean I should stick to it. If you read my current novel, you realize how weird the writing style is, which is just for that series because the whole series is weird. If I wanted to write a normal one, I would've used simple words.

happened to me. Didnt like it

oh that's what it was. The GL was not a major focus