"A friendship between man and woman is a lie" + "A friendship between woman and woman is a lie, too" tropes = women can't have friends at all... (partially NSFW and whining)

[unknown_user]

I think it's important to show a boy and a girl just being close friends without it evolving into romance. I hardly ever see a guy and a girl in media being close friends that doesn't become a romance and the writers making it a completely casual thing that happens.

Yes, it would be interesting to see more of this.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Oh yes, I have no issue with the depiction of unhealthy realtionships either; that can be very interesting.
I meant in the context of your complains about the depiction of relationships supposed 'good' or 'normal'.

[alliascompany]

I forgot what the movie was called, but I watched one with my sister where MC starts having an affair with her best friend's fiancee. In the background there's the typical guy friend that both girls grew up with.

So I'm like, "Don't Tell me, MC will either realize her mistake and end up with guy friend or MC ends up with fiancee and best friend ends up with guy friend."

But as the movie kept going, Guy friend and the girls showed no romantic interests with each other. So was like finally! A guy friend who stays a guy friend.

And then we get to the part of the movie where the affair is found out. MC is sulking and guy friend is like
"You know, there was another person who has feelings for you."

Uuuughhhh. I mean he still doesn't end up with MC, it was more of a reflection scene for MC and then she ends up with the fiancee. At the end there's like a weird scene where it looks like best friend is randomly going start pursuing Guy friend now maybe? Guy friend is like "oh no..." Then movie ends.what was the point of his character???

[unknown_user]

The point was probably just to emphasize that everyone, who communicate with female MC long enough, fall in love with her. I.e. like she is so lovable and attractive or something like that.
Can't say for sure, though, because didn't watch the movie.

[alliascompany]

Honestly the movie was mess. It was typical wallflower brunette jealous of popular gets everything she wants blonde. Still not sure why they were really friends in the first place.

I think his entire purpose was for MC realize she had to speak up for herself and that she let's her best friend get her way.
Still I would have liked if the guy friend had stayed the voice of reason without revealing he had feelings for her.

[erma]

These types of romance stories usually have some of my absolute least favourite tropes. I would generally like to see this happen less often:

• The woman's life revolves around a man and doesn't talk about anything else other than this man.

• Women tearing each-other down and generally being nasty towards each other..

• women and men not being able to just be friends without one of them having a crush, or only staying friends with other person because they're sexually attracted to them. That one especially is just.... no. Please can we see more genuine friendships between men and women? It does happen in real life!!

• "I'm not like the other girls. I drink beer and play video games. Other girls are so shallow. I'm different."

• A woman that isn't interested in marrying a man and/or having kids, but is dismissed by people in her life and told that one day she'll change her mind because "biology" or something.

I can't read or watch romance stories if they have a bunch of stuff like this. @__@

[SilentHamster102]

I never understood this concept actually.
Maybe because I have a girl among my friends, real friend. Not like "friendzone" or something, but real friendship. We drink beer (and not only beer) together, making stupid jokes which is funny if you're drunk, discussing action movies, cars, guns and knives, etc. You know, like friends doing it.

[skicoak]

As a guy who has had numerous friendships with varying types of women, there's a discord in approaching them the same as other types of friendships.

It's not a judgement of any sort, but there are women who when not engaged in a personal relationship will utilize male friends in masculine traditional roles. This creates the ILLUSION of a different type of relationship to outside parties and sometimes to the male as well.

For example, a 3 a.m. phone call to kill a spider because her boyfriend is deployed for 6 months. In reality, it requires a certain maturity and willingness to accept the role of substitute without stupidly engaging in other thought patterns.

However in fictional narratives, this is a breeding ground for sexual tension and intrigue with exaggerations of cliched behaviors.

So the deployed boyfriend, in fiction and reality, could easily be the trope barrier here.

[unknown_user]

That's cool

[unknown_user]

It's not a judgement of any sort, but there are women who when not engaged in a personal relationship will utilize male friends in masculine traditional roles. This creates the ILLUSION of a different type of relationship to outside parties and sometimes to the male as well.

Yes, I think I know what are you talking about. It happens. But it bothers me a lot, when people say that ONLY "substitution of a boyfriend"-type or friendzone-type relationships are possible between people of different sexes. Very different kind of relationships between men and women may have place in reality. So, more sincere kind of friendship happens as well. At least, I think so.

[skicoak]

But it bothers me a lot, when people say that ONLY "substitution of a boyfriend"-type or friendzone-type relationships are possible between people of different sexes. Very different kind of relationships between men and women may have place in reality. So, more sincere kind of friendship happens as well.

I don't disagree with you. I have many different kinds of friendships with several females so I know they can exist.

But the trope/cliche is built around real patterns of behaviors that can be read "wrong" by outside parties or misinterpreted by one of the two (or more) parties involved.

Forgive the sexist implications but in these types of relationships being the male friend who lifts heavy stuff for his friend, Kills bugs, holds purse etc. doesn't have a reversed equivalent in many of these relationships. There's a lack of quid pro quo as they say.

It confuses the lines of equitable friendships.

[SleepingPoppy]

Forgive the sexist implications but in these types of relationships being the male friend who lifts heavy stuff for his friend, Kills bugs, holds purse etc. doesn't have a reversed equivalent in many of these relationships. There's a lack of quid pro quo as they say.

Ski, I will hold, lift, or kill bugs for you if the need arises. ^^

[skicoak]

Ski, I will hold, lift, or kill bugs for you if the need arises. ^^

Ha ha! I appreciate the offer​.

I'm really talking more about the fictional imbalance ....in reality, either party has accepted the imbalance when engaging in the relationship and should have the maturity to deal with it or move on.

[AceRagz]

Idk when I had to raise my niece I had a friend explain menstruation to her and I was grateful to her about it since I was terrified I would say the wrong thing and either have my niece scared about her periods or misinformed. Its not lifting things or killing bugs but lol I sure didn't feel right about explaining it and needed help.

[skicoak]

Idk when I had to raise my niece I had a friend explain menstruation to her and I was grateful to her about it

That's a great real world situation.

But if that was a fictionalized situation, You raising your niece and having a menstruation sub-plot pretty much guarantees you're not in this cliche/trope.

[AceRagz]

I will tell you my gf at the time wanted a kid of our own and ditched out on me so I had to rely on friends to help me because I had no idea what I was doing

[AmazementComics]

Wow, this is hysterical.

[DiegoPalacios]

Yeah, i have been randomly shipped with female friends by people (yeah, real life people shipping others is a thing i guess XD)......a particularly funny case was during a party when i was with a friend group where i was the only guy and some ex classmates from highschool looked at me and teased me like i was some sort of "Mc Daddy"

[vfinnigan]

I've known some guys who were raised (usually by male chauvinist fathers) to believe that men could never truly be friends with women, that the only reason a man would "befriend" a woman is because he eventually wants to get in her pants, and that friendships with women that don't involve sex are pointless.

And unfortunately, thanks to pornographic depiction of women, especially lesbian or bisexual women, friendships among women that don't involve sex are also increasingly portrayed as pointless. Because apparently many people think that the only point of female characters of any sexual orientation is to give overgrown manchildren their jollies.

It's time to update the Bechtel Test. We not only need scenes where named female characters talk to each other about something other than men, we need scenes where they talk about stuff other than sex or romance, regardless of pairing.

[vfinnigan]

Nobody can relate to anybody else 100%. Even people with a natural gift for empathy aren't that good. But a guy who'd scuttle a friendship over not relating to PMS, or a woman who'd refuse to befriend a guy because she can't related to male awkwardness probably wouldn't be a good friend to anyone.

True friends are friends in spite of - and sometimes because of - their differences. And men and women can find common ground where they can relate to one another. We're all, after all, human.

If friendship between men and women were impossible, the divorce rate in heterosexual marriages would be much higher than in same sex marriages, when all the available data says they're about the same. Because marriage longevity doesn't depend on infatuation or feeling "in love," but on maintaining long-term friendship. It's not cliche when people celebrating 40th, 60th, or even 80th anniversaries (I knew a couple that was married that long) say their spouses are their best friends.