A middle ground between vertical format and traditional comic format?

[Macarenaoftime]

I've seen some debate on which format is better, but I think a kind of middle ground can be achieved.

Recently I have been reading this comic that I think it achieves that.

Errant | Tapas

You still have to scroll down to read it but the episodes are short which keeps the pacing somewhat traditional and I could definitely see it work well in printed form!

Also, some time ago I was reading Naoki Urasawa's Pluto and I just kept thinking: "damn his page layout could really translate well into vertical format". And then I realize most of his earlier pages were split in two.

I think the vertical vs traditional format problem can be solved with a lot of creative solutions. But hey, what do you think?
Do you prefer one format over the other? Are you planning on printing your webcomic? Do you think a middle ground can be achieved?

[Yulek]

it reaaally depends.

I have both a page one in the works, and a vertical one.

for the vertical one, I just know that I won't ever print it. it's meant as a webcomic and I will adjust the layout for it (tho I will keep it desktop friendly as well. I don't like it personally, when I can't read something on my laptop without zooming out to 5% lol)

I am looking forward to using gradients and cool "scenery changes while you scroll down" things. there's a lot of things that can be fun to come up with that work in vertical.

on the other hand the page one, I am really looking forward to coming up with clever layouts here as well. but ones that are more based on the flow of a page.
same with coloring, you can really set the mood page wise

I do plan on printing the page one

I really like how both formats have a lot of individual strengths :D.

[Macarenaoftime]

I am looking forward to using gradients and cool "scenery changes while you scroll down" things. there's a lot of things that can be fun to come up with that work in vertical.

Yeah! Vertical can be so fun to work with sometimes.

[Kaydreamer]

One of my all-time favourite comics are made in page format first, then adapted brilliantly to vertical. You really can't tell that wasn't how it was intended to be read. I follow the artist on Patreon, and she thumbnails for page and vertical at the same time.

Punderworld

I've done the adapt-page-to-vertical thing, and I found that working in page format just slowed me down enormously. It's trickier for me. I'm working purely vertically now, and when I go to print, well... I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

[Caro]

As a personal preference I’ll always always always lean more towards doing a comic with page format in mind before scrolling format. I left one of my comics in format for webtoon and it gained 20k subscribers within the the two months I was posting it there. That said, the pages had very simple formats and were pretty readable on mobile.

Before that I had done a scrolling format featured comic for webtoon where I just broke up a page format comic. The reason I’m a huge advocate for ~page first~ is because when that webtoon contract died and I stopped getting the monthly payments from Naver I was still eventually able to print the book and maintain income on the same content.

Physical media has always been the biggest chunk of my income and given me most of the side work (honestly, not once has a freelance job come up starting with “Hi, I read your webtoon and...”). Heck, the Webtoon gig came out of someone being familiar with one of my books. (I understand this isn’t necessarily everyone’s goal though and if making a purely scrolly comic is what brings you joy absolutely go for it. )

You’ve got two realllly excellent points of reference for page formats that work well scroll format! It’s nice to see folks thinking about that more!

[allenT]

I prefer page-format because mine is drawn traditionally and many panels are really small, so enlarge them to fit vertical format will look awful (compare to most digital ones with smoother lines).

My solution is to enlarge to dialogue texts and speech bubbles, and control the dialogue to be shorter and more spread out so it won't dominate the pages.

[Moesakuara]

I used to do all my comics traditional or at least draw them traditionally and then scan them into my computer to do the ink/color digitally, and at first my stuff was also small scale. I now draw really big if I’m gonna scan a full page. It helps if you need to resize anything in the computer and makes drawing balloons way easier.

[Moesakuara]

I wanna ask though, is doing a middle ground the most popular way to post/viable? I just joined the site yesterday, and don’t know how I’ll post my comic. I draw it on the comic template in procreate in regular comic format. I really don’t like vertical scroll- I grew up reading manga as full page scans online and don’t think the habit left me. This was pre sites like Webtoons or Tapas blowing up in terms of popularity. I want to make my comic accessible, but I also don’t know how to chop up my pages like that. This is a rough to give you an idea of how I’m drawing them.

[Kaydreamer]

If you're looking to grow a good-sized readership, vertical is the way to go. If you don't like working in a vertical format, just re-arrange your finished panels vertically once you finish a few pages. You don't need to do anything fancy; just stack 'em, and make the font larger. (An advantage of the vertical format is that you can have speech bubbles sit outside the panel borders, so you won't lose detail from the art by increasing their size.)

I didn't like the scrolling format very much when I started my comic, either. I posted single pages. Then, I started chopping up my completed pages and re-assembling them vertically, to make it easier to read on mobile. (Which is how most of the readers on Tapas and WEBTOON read.) That helped me grow my audience a little faster, because my comic was now more accessible, and the font no longer gave people eye strain when they tried to read it on a phone. It doesn't take long, and it will help more people enjoy what you make.

After starting to read webcomics more broadly, I began noticing all of the amazing things which could be done vertically, which are more challenging in a traditional page format. Specifically how much more control it provided over pacing, immersion, and tone. I started to really appreciate the strengths of the medium.

Now, I work entirely vertically. I completely changed my mind on which format I prefer. I wasn't expecting to, but I really, really love vertical comics now.

ComicFury is another webcomic hosting site, which is set up for page-format comics intended to be read in web browsers. So you can always post a mirror of your comic its original format there!

[Caro]

If you're looking to grow a good-sized readership, vertical is the way to go.

I always struggle with this sentiment as a person with a relatively large following who doesn’t do vertical comics. I think its probably true if you’re only trying to exist within the sphere of webtoons and tapas MAYBE but there is a huge contingent of folks who don’t read comics on either platform and even more so that don’t care (so long as its legible).

If the work is enjoyable people will follow it wherever it goes in whatever format it exists. I think it ultimately depends on what your goals and preferences are.

[Moesakuara]

Hey, thanks! I just read all of your Blue Star Rebellion comic and can see how you put the format to great use with pacing and motion. Does this also work for panels that aren’t square? In my action scenes, the panels aren’t square, and I don’t recall if all of yours where or not. At first the vertical made it hard for me to get into the story and distracted me, but after awhile I stopped noticing it.

[a.g.meade]

Personally, I think there's a lot of merit to presenting your comic exactly the way YOU want. I believe the format is in service to the story, and only the individual artist can determine which way is the best way to present their narrative.

Maybe some people will find it beneficial to find a middle ground, but remember that people have been reading traditionally formatted comics FAR longer than webcomics have even existed. I believe they will continue to do so as long as the story is compelling.

@Moesakuara - I think that if you don't like vertical format, you shouldn't feel obligated to do so. It's your story, after all, and as @Caro said, people will read as long as they're enjoying it, regardless of format.

[Kaydreamer]

@Moesakuara
Cheers! I tend to mostly use square panels because it's simple, but by no means do you have to. There are a couple in there so far where the panels are tilted, mostly in action shots, because it adds energy the same way it does on a page! I should also note, I had... really, no clue what I was doing in the early episodes. I intend to redo them, probably up to the point where my scruffy dude leaves the cockpit. I start getting the hang of things a bit more from that point.

I'm still learning, and the next two upcoming episodes are where I start to really get a handle of what the format can do. Which... isn't much help right now, understandably, but I can point you to a couple of amazing comics which truly show off what a vertical format can do.

This creator actually works primarily in page format, but she storyboards for both, to ensure the pacing and layout works across formats. She does gorgeous things with panel borders.

Punderworld

This comic is 100% made for scroll, and it's what compelled me to finally make the switch. It's absolutely stunning.

Winds of Spring

@Caro
There will always be exceptions to the norm, I'm not denying that. Your experience is proof! And there's definitely a huge and growing market for physical graphic novels, especially in kidlit; those were initially what I wanted to make. That market is getting stronger with each passing year.

I'm just observing general trends. For new webcomics, the easiest place to find readers and develop an audience is on WEBTOON. The preference there is for the vertical format. If a new author is looking for the smoothest path to gaining a solid readership, that's the way to go. It doesn't mean you can't, or shouldn't, take another path. Just that growth will probably be slower. That's an acceptable trade for many people, but it's wise to be aware of the choice being made.

I really regret starting my comic in page format. I shot myself in the foot in those critical early months, where a 'rising stars' feature was still possible, because of my format decision. Not that such things are ever guaranteed, but I feel like my comic would have been in with a good shot had I chosen to follow the standard. I didn't, and I regret it now.

[darthmongoose]

So as the creator of Errant, used as an example in the opening post, I should probably talk about how the comic ended up formatted that way.

When I decided I wanted to make a new comic, I first spoke to some friends who make fairly popular webcomics that are also in print. One of the biggest influences was Shazleen Khan, creator of Buuza!! who when I asked how they made such nice looking print books out of long-scroll pages pretty much said "Oh yeah, I make the pages for print first, then I just chop up the page and arrange it for long-scroll."
If you've read Buuza!! you'll of course have seen that the panels are much more spread out. You might not even have ever thought it was drawn as a print comic first.
So I had that basic idea; spread out the panels and use bigger text for mobile-friendliness, but also an understanding that Shazleen and I are very different creators. Shazleen makes these slow-paced, atmospheric scenes focused on the emotion of the moment, so big panels and big gaps allow you to just sink in there and be like a fly on the wall in this room where people are having a tense conversation. My work is more like... people shouting cheesy one-liners and punching big monsters. It's much more focused on precise, short timeframes, and very clearly defined sequences of physical action. So I knew I was going to need smaller, tighter panels.

I will put out my soap box to say this: I don't think every comic should be a long scroll. I think long scroll is actually pretty bad for action scenes; it makes everything floaty, so only works for a big, epic slow-mo shot. I don't think you will ever see a comic fight as tight and impactful as the ones in Scott Pilgrim volume 3 or 4 in a long scroll. Every fight becomes the fights from Scott Pilgrim volume 6 where it's all just big bleed panels that lose all sense of time as if you're watching a movie where every single moment is a slow-mo shot using that Matrix spinny camera pan with the horn section blaring full-blast on the soundtrack. Honestly I kind of hate this idea that every comic needs to be long-scroll now. I think long-scroll is an innovative format that works amazingly well for more dialogue and emotion-focused atmospheric storytelling, but it's not ideal for everything, and if every comic needs to be long-scroll, it stops being innovative and becomes restrictive.
Gets off soapbox.

On early pages of Errant, you can see the panels are a lot more spaced out, but after a while I found that instead of trying to spread out one page into a long scroll twice a week and undermining the snappiness that's a feature of both my action scenes and comedic style, I started instead taking a two-page spread and stacking it into one update a week, with the panels only slightly spread out.
The interesting thing was, almost as soon as I switched to two page spreads as "updates", my pacing naturally changed to fit that new, larger cup, like water filling a new container. So instead of every page having a reveal, big moment or a punchline, it became every other page.

So... it may not be quite the fashion, but for me it's the best compromise I can reach for making an Action comedy comic that's readable on mobile.

[Caro]

I think overall of we look at webcomics with audiences in the millions most of them aren’t webtoons.

Most of those are strips so obviously pretty readable but aren’t webtoons and when these people make the jump to non-strip comic people usually follow it wherever it is. I just don’t think its all webtoons or bust right now is most of the most popular webcomics aren’t there. I think it could be eventually but we’re not quite there yet! I think webtoons needs a more obviously broad range of styles and comics. But as of right now there are more independent cartoonists with followings in the millions than there are webtoons with followings in the millions if we’re just looking at numbers.

I’ve got a lotta feelings having worked for them and having also worked for traditional publishers tho and I think there’s a perfect lil spot in the middle thats just 🤌

[nathanKmcwilliams]

As an avid comic reader, who primarily reads comics on his phone...
I kind of hate vertical scroll. I read at least 600 pages of comics on my phone every month. These are traditional page comics, on apps like Hoopla, the Shonen Jump app, Marvel Unlimited, etc.

I have zero issues on my mobile. My screen isn't even that big. I rarely have to zoom in. It's not that hard to read. Comics are something that need to be digested slowly, it's an art form that uses so many techniques, they need to be appreciated.

For me there's nothing better than reading traditionally formatted comics, I love how they're laid out, and there's endless possibilities for how they're presented.

As a creator.
I DEFINITELY hate vertical scroll. My brain doesn't compute laying everything out up and down. Even when I tried having vertical scroll releases I still did them in traditional first and separated them. But it took too much time to reformat and eventually I began to dread even doing a comic page because of it for the sheer sake of tedium.
Not to mention, my comic is an action comic and needs tight panelling.

Then we have the part where vert scroll is being pushed commercially to the point where unless you use it, you can't be viable on the front page. In my opinion vert scroll is killing the fine tradition of comicking by catering to lazy readers. Yes, I said lazy readers. They don't care how hard you worked to layout your page, they just want to be spoonfed pretty pictures as they slide a finger across their phone screen.

So... vitriolic diatribe aside, I decided to just say screw it, it's my story, I want to make it in the way I envision it. And that's traditional format. Don't even care if I lose readers over it. For me there's no middle ground.

[Macarenaoftime]

I was so intrigued on what was your thought process for your comic layout, so thanks a lot for sharing!
Your comments are always really well done and pretty helpfull.

[rajillustration]

So my opinion is if it's basically page format but with a longer page--that's just page format but with a longer page. Not that there's anything wrong with that--there's not--but you don't get the perks of doing the experimental tall stuff that only a webcomic can do, and you get less of the paneling that you'd be getting if you could fit more panels side by side.

But like...if you approach it as "this is my XL page," then that's a good way to think about how to set it up--I tend to think "I can't put more than 2 panels next to eachother" and that's my restriction for how I do my long-form comics when I want to retain some of that page-format paneling.