Accepting less good section? (creator pov)

[vothnthorvaldson]

So, I'm midway into drawing chapter 2 of my comic, chapter which I've not started publishing yet (I'm currently in hiatus), but planned to publish shortly.

The problem is, I have a short (2-3 pages) scene I simply can't get right. I had problems with it since the beginning of me working on this story (over 2 years ago) and thought I had found a solution, but when drawing it, it still don't feel quite right, but:

• It is absolutely necessary to the plot, at this point I can't just pretend the scene does not exist;
• The less-than-ideal version of the scene still does the job in term of plot. It's not completely messed up, it's merely.. underwhelming..
• I really don't see how I could all the sudden get a great idea that would fix everything, considering I did not find it in 2 years' time (never impossible but improbable)
• I'm super enthusiastically working on the next scene, so I'd like to stop thinking of that previous, problem-making scene.

Did you ever run into that kind of problem? Did you choose to publish the not-that-great scene and go on with the rest of the chapter/story, or did you wait to have something your are really proud of?
Any advice on how to choose what to do, or feedback as a reader having bumped into parts that were below average compared to the rest of the work?

[ProfessorParsec]

I know you're not able to write down the specific issue without giving the story away, so please forgive my vague reply in return.

Regarding your working on it for two years, I understand and appreciate that, but when we write stories on our own, we tend to become blind to issues and solutions. It happens to us all, and has an easy fix.

If I have a plot hole or issue with my story, my first response is to ask someone else for their perspective. They might not always have the answer I'm looking for, but at the very least, it gets my mind thinking in new directions that I wouldn't have otherwise thought. It's worth waiting a few days or weeks to get that feedback instead of rushing ahead.

If it's integral to the plot, it concerns me that if you can't get it right, this foundation to your story might cause you issues down the road with your story. I ran into a similar issue even after reworking one of my comics, I ended up losing motivation and stopped the project altogether because the moments in earlier chapters couldn't support the later chapters.

There's a difficult balance in art, writing, and comics of creating something you're proud of, and not getting so hung up on the details that you never publish anything. Once you've tried everything you can do, it's time to give yourself permission to not be perfect, accept that you've done your best, and keep moving forward.

[nixxusnibelheim]

@ProfessorParsec said it all.
I would say if it was for a small details, you can run with it and never look back again but since it's quite important to the plot, it's best that you find something that actually make you excited.

If you are excited about a scene then most likely the audience will to. The same thing goes if you feel hesitant. Story and art are about intentions. People can sense that.

I run into those problem quite often actually because I explain too much or I'm forcing something cool I have in mind that doesn't really fit xD
Most of the time, I really have to breakdown the scene to the core, forget the dialogues, forget the actions. I really have to grasp what that scene represent, what's the intent.
Once I nail that, I can literally package the scene however I want as long as the core intent is there.

So ask yourself why that scene is so important to the plot ? Look for a different angle to tell it, play with "what if scenarios" even if it doesn't make sense, just let those scenarios play out, an idea that actually make sense can pop at any moment.

You can also ask a friend how they would tell that bit of the story, see what you can learn from their feedbacks.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Did you ever run into that kind of problem? Did you choose to publish the not-that-great scene and go on with the rest of the chapter/story, or did you wait to have something your are really proud of?

Unfortunately, the day when you have something you're really proud of may never come. XD

Sometimes you write something the first time, and it feels just perfect and amazing and right. And sometimes it just doesn't work and you have to skip it and come back to it...at some point. And sometimes you think something you wrote is the former when it's actually the latter, and vice versa. ^^; Writing can be hell.

But my rule is, when the time comes to draw it and get it posted, make the script work and leave it at that. Just put in whatever makes the most sense, and leave well enough alone.

And now that it's been over half a year since I had to do that with a particularly troublesome chapter...I don't regret it. I don't feel any urge to go back and keep fixing it like I did all that year. I'm just happy to be done; I feel satisfied. ^^

I know full well that my story ain't perfect, and it wouldn't be the first to have 'parts that were below average' compared to the rest. And I can accept that. As long as the story makes sense overall, I don't mind one chapter being potentially less likeable than the others.
Every reader is different; someone might come along and claim that the part you enjoyed working on the most is 'below average'. But you wouldn't go back and rewrite it just for them, would you?

That's all you have to do: have faith in the decision you made, regardless of what anyone else might think or compare it to. As long as it's up to your own standards of writing, it'll fit into your story, and chances are that most of the readers won't even see all the issues that you do.

[Rhonder]

Before I formulate a proper reply, question!

When you say you "can't get it right" do you mean the drawing part of it (having trouble rendering the poses/backgrounds/perspectives/whatever) or how the scene is actually written out, or some of both? My answer varies some depending on the nature of the trouble

[vothnthorvaldson]

Thank you all very much for your answers!

I know you're not able to write down the specific issue without giving the story away, so please forgive my vague reply in return.

Regarding your working on it for two years, I understand and appreciate that, but when we write stories on our own, we tend to become blind to issues and solutions. It happens to us all, and has an easy fix.

If I have a plot hole or issue with my story, my first response is to ask someone else for their perspective. They might not always have the answer I'm looking for, but at the very least, it gets my mind thinking in new directions that I wouldn't have otherwise thought. It's worth waiting a few days or weeks to get that feedback instead of rushing ahead.

It's a good advice, and I'd love to get it checked by someone. It's just a bit difficult to find the right person, as generally, existing readers don't really like to get spoiled, and it's a bit difficult to ask someone with no interest to my comic to read 20+ pages for context. But I may be able to exchange that against another service with a friend.

If it's integral to the plot, it concerns me that if you can't get it right, this foundation to your story might cause you issues down the road with your story. I ran into a similar issue even after reworking one of my comics, I ended up losing motivation and stopped the project altogether because the moments in earlier chapters couldn't support the later chapters.

I don't think I'm in this kind of position, but it may be, as you noted earlier, blindness, and I may not realize that it's actually what's happening. I don't know.
I'll put a bit more context under spoiler at the end of the message.

There's a difficult balance in art, writing, and comics of creating something you're proud of, and not getting so hung up on the details that you never publish anything. Once you've tried everything you can do, it's time to give yourself permission to not be perfect, accept that you've done your best, and keep moving forward.

This is the most difficult for me I think. I actually started publishing last year very early after even discovering the existence of webcomics, because I thought that if I was not starting publishing very early with clearly beginner skills, and waited to get better.. I would NEVER publish anything because I would always look for more and more perfection. I find it easy to be very, very imperfect than pretty good but not as good as I want.

would say if it was for a small details, you can run with it and never look back again but since it's quite important to the plot, it's best that you find something that actually make you excited.

If you are excited about a scene then most likely the audience will to. The same thing goes if you feel hesitant. Story and art are about intentions. People can sense that.

I run into those problem quite often actually because I explain too much or I'm forcing something cool I have in mind that doesn't really fit xD Most of the time, I really have to breakdown the scene to the core, forget the dialogues, forget the actions. I really have to grasp what that scene represent, what's the intent.Once I nail that, I can literally package the scene however I want as long as the core intent is there.

So ask yourself why that scene is so important to the plot ? Look for a different angle to tell it, play with "what if scenarios" even if it doesn't make sense, just let those scenarios play out, an idea that actually make sense can pop at any moment.

You can also ask a friend how they would tell that bit of the story, see what you can learn from their feedbacks.

That part I put in bold... Happens just... all the time! Not the problem in this case (see spoiler at end of my message) but it does occur to me a lot. Sometimes I just drop the idea, sometimes I recycle it somewhere else, and sometimes it starts a new subplot, which is something I won't do anymore in the future because my story is going out of hands with subplots

Unfortunately, the day when you have something you're really proud of may never come. XD

Ah yes, true, I'm never entirely happy, and know I will never be regardless of how much I may improve in the future. I only judge the quality of a page relatively to other recent pages, I suppose that's the safest, and the fairest.

And now that it's been over half a year since I had to do that with a particularly troublesome chapter...I don't regret it. I don't feel any urge to go back and keep fixing it like I did all that year. I'm just happy to be done; I feel satisfied. ^^

I know full well that my story ain't perfect, and it wouldn't be the first to have 'parts that were below average' compared to the rest. And I can accept that. As long as the story makes sense overall, I don't mind one chapter being potentially less likeable than the others. Every reader is different; someone might come along and claim that the part you enjoyed working on the most is 'below average'. But you wouldn't go back and rewrite it just for them, would you?

That's all you have to do: have faith in the decision you made, regardless of what anyone else might think or compare it to. As long as it's up to your own standards of writing, it'll fit into your story, and chances are that most of the readers won't even see all the issues that you do.

Good to know!
I think I'll finish this section, get one or two people to check it, and if there is nothing shocking to them, I'll work toward the 'accepting below average pages' solution

---

More info on problem for those who'd be interested:

Spoiler

So the scene I have problem with is a funeral scene. Very, very simple funeral, just a pyre and 2 (living) characters, the dead person and a semi-materialized manifestation of a goddess.

The scene is important for the plot, but not really more than any other scene (it's a very contemplative comic with many subplots, no scene is immensely more important than the previous one). However, I had my main characters preparing for the funeral at the end of chapter one, and jumping directly to events happening after the funeral would require changing things in the next 30 pages or so, to reintroduce in a different way all the info supposed to be given during the funeral, which I'm not ready to do.

Now, the whole funeral scene is about 10 pages long, but I only have a problem for the 2-3 last pages with the manifestation of the goddess. All the info is there, but it looks very underwhelming. To give an idea of the ambiance I'd like: before being a comic, I wrote that story for a musical project, and that scene was supposed to be an instrumental piece with sarangi as the main instrument, with this kind of ambiance : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gi6aG6DDMY (starting at 0:19. Obviously NOT my composition, but similar ambiance).

It's VERY emotional and spiritual music to me, which worked great to evoke vividly a divinity presence, and I can't even start to obtain something similar in drawing, I know it's partially due to the fact my drawing skills are pretty low at this time, but I felt I did better in conveying specific ambiances in other pages, so I'm a bit disappointed I can't get something I like for this scene. (For eg. just before the appearance of the goddess I have a panel with a completely ablaze pyre that I know have many mistakes, but I love it and it sets just the right ambiance).

As I'm writing I'm wondering if the problem is that I set too high standards to myself for these few pages; then getting them read by someone else would be very essential as they could tell me if they see the quality dropping between the page I like very much and the next pages.. Maybe I'm creating problems that don't exist?

[vothnthorvaldson]

The spoiler in my previous answer should be the info you need: mostly a drawing issue, but ambiance more than perspective etc

[Rhonder]

I see! In that case if it's mostly on the art side of things and I were in your shoes, I would probably just try and get it to an acceptable level (even if not great) and press onwards. Since art skills and techniques take so long to grow and develop, typically, I feel like getting held up on the aesthetics of one section could needlessly hold up the comic overall for a considerable time.

In the meantime I guess my only suggestion would be trying to find another comic with a similar ambiance and asking the artist how they pulled it off

(On a side note if you need someone to look it (and the context around it) over, feel free to hit me up! I'd be glad to offer an opinion/assist )

[vothnthorvaldson]

I see! In that case if it's mostly on the art side of things and I were in your shoes, I would probably just try and get it to an acceptable level (even if not great) and press onwards. Since art skills and techniques take so long to grow and develop, typically, I feel like getting held up on the aesthetics of one section could needlessly hold up the comic overall for a considerable time.

Yes, that's the risk. I worked on it a bit more after posting yesterday, and I feel it's a bit better. I decided I'll dedicate another 2-3 hours to this section, to try yet another thing I have in mind, and let it at that.

In the meantime I guess my only suggestion would be trying to find another comic with a similar ambiance and asking the artist how they pulled it off

I generally don't like to do that, to avoid getting too influenced, but now that I already drew my illustration and simply want to make it more lively, more striking, that could be a good idea. At least browsing illustrations.. Will do!

(On a side note if you need someone to look it (and the context around it) over, feel free to hit me up! I'd be glad to offer an opinion/assist )

That would be super nice!
Although, I have real job things coming up in the next few days and won't be able to have that section finished for a little while. If by the time I'm ready, you don't have time etc, feel free to decline looking at it.

[Resilo]

The author of Jojo's bizarre adventure only under very extreme circumstance redoes a drawing. "because i want to hold onto that live feeling i don't redo" he describes it like being a live performance that only happens once
and believes the same can be applied to art.

So if your pages don't look that great in some places imo thats ok. I was chatting with a friend the other day and we were talking about when authors redraw pages.

Its great to them and they should feel good about it. but personally i've never thought damn that comic is terrible because of 1 page that doesn't look that great.

Or

man i wish i could see that author redo a page.

Its always been man i can't wait to see what happens next

[Rhonder]

That would be super nice! Although, I have real job things coming up in the next few days and won't be able to have that section finished for a little while. If by the time I'm ready, you don't have time etc, feel free to decline looking at it.

Yeah, no rush! Just whenever it's done feel free to hit me up~