Amazon vs Wattpad

[crisyah]

Just because someone else can treat me worse doesn't mean I'm going to take mediocre treatment from someone else.

[therosesword]

This is a blog by an attorney (not mine) that I have often pursued. He's done a massive piece on Vella including their words and his words and some back and forth opinions (I particularly like "Randalls" take on erotica owning this within a short time and people with low hanging fruit chopping up their books trying to make money,.

It's obvious that more work has to be done, it's idea isn't fully fleshed but as I'm in Amazon country and have friends who work there (some in the film division) it shakes out eventually.

this is a long read... looooonnnngggg, but worth it. especially the conversation at the end.

https://www.thepassivevoice.com/kindle-vella-royalties-content-guidelines-and-publishing-process/

[crisyah]

Randall knows what's up. Authors can't, however, chop underperforming books and put them up as episodes, as per Vella's many restrictions.

Got a new reply, which basically only answers what happens if you pull your book from Vella. Readers will still be able to access what they paid for, so technically, the book is still there, forever. Which, while it's a good thing for the reader, I'm not so sure I feel comfortable with, as an author.

Here's the whole thing:

Edit: For the sake of transparency, I also specifically asked what was up with the "we don't want readers to buy duplicate content, so that's why we don't allow content available in other formats" excuse, when it's so common to mistakenly buy duplicates of books if you simply search for a different ISBN / different edition and they said nothing about that.

So yeah, either this still needs a whole lot of changes, or I won't be touching it with a ten foot pole, even when it becomes available globally. That's my verdict, for now.

[therosesword]

Did you read the rebuttals? Forgive me but you're taking a very negative view of something that hasn't established a track record or had the benefit of working out the kinks yet. There were a great many naysayers to the original Kindle idea and they seem to have managed to go on.

If you don't want to partake of it, don't, but let others decide for themselves after they have assimilated the information to their satisfaction.

I'm not saying it's good or bad, right now, I don't have all the information I want and I am inclined to take the information provided by people with experience at this point.

[crisyah]

Only one of the rebuttals applies to the problems I have with the app and that was "Well, if you’re doing KDP exclusive, which I am, there’s not much difference.". I personally have the same problems with KPD exclusive, so this does nothing to help with my doubts about the app. Like I said, for now, as it stands, it doesn't interest me. I'm not telling anyone else to stay away from it. People are free to choose whatever they want to do.

[sarahmassey998]

I feel the same, I kinda just want to throw a new unpublished novel on there before it gets going just to see what happens. If it doesn't work then you can always pull it from the platform and publish elsewhere.
My question would be if all genres would be accepted or if the readers are only looking for certain material. There aren't a lot of guidelines out now so hopefully there will be more going forward.

[sarahmassey998]

Hey there,
I've read a few of your posts and I get the feeling that you have a grasp of the legalities of this new platform. Would you happen to know if you can post a story to both Tapas and to Kindle Vella assuming of course that you haven't gone premium with Tapas?
Thank you for breaking this down for us newbie authors!

[writercynknapp]

I have no actual experience, but this is what I have observed.

For WattPad: if you write quality Young Adult stories ('chasing red', 'after', 'the last princess', under glass'); then you might find a book or movie deal.
Earning money from online readers is not automatic. You have to become a 'WattPad Star' first. Then you might be selected to offer a 'paid' story.
I have never heard from anyone that paid stories earned even a meager living. Though I have heard from some that money does get sent when it accumulates.

I write scifi / fantasy, which has way fewer readers.

Does anyone have any facts on other sites? Are there earnings for sci-fi / fantasy content anywhere?

[therosesword]

I'm still reading and trying to digest. The grasp is kind of like trying to pick up an excited 6 month old kitten.... prelim looks says you can but there is more information on another thread I started called Amazon Kindle Vella part 2. I'll link below although I don't know if you can link this way

It is a blog by an attorney and he first puts up everything that Amazon says and then has comments at the very end. This is alllll very new so I'm fairly sure you can expect things to change relatively rapidly, especially with their agreement as the attorney said it felt like it wasn't complete yet.

He may also have information about things you've wondered about in the past. I find the link to contract work interesting, but then I was the first stop for contracts at my last job so my brain locks in on the familiar.

[sarahmassey998]

That makes sense, it does feel all a bit rushed so hopefully they will come out with some more concrete guidelines for writers as it gets closer to dropping. Or after those first brave writers brave the waters, find the flaws and allow the rest of us to sail on smoother seas.
This is Amazon we're talking about.
Thank you again for bringing this to my attention. I'm so far out of the loop this was the first place I've heard of this!

[therosesword]

One of the things I thought was interesting is the fact of Kakao buying up so much of Tapas and all the stuff that's going on with Wattpad and Navar(spelling) and then this drops like crazy. I'm sure if I dig I'll find mention of it brewing but so low keyed it went under the radar (and I'm not particularly in the loop either).

In any event, my take is that with all this other stuff going on and Kakao Entertainment flexing growing muscles, Amazon has probably been microscoping the serial webnovels for some time (especially with so many of China's hit c-dramas being made from webnovels they'd be blind not to notice that, especially with their film division). And with the Tapas deal for Kakao Amazon decided to step up their pace.

The timing, in my opinion, is ... interesting?... at the very least. Will Kakao buying up so much of Tapas (and rumor flying of takeover) cause an exodus of authors and will Amazon, a known commodity with decades in business, be standing nearby with welcoming arms to receive them?

Just my thoughts.

[therosesword]

There is Fictionate.me

[crisyah]

You can't. Stories that are available for free elsewhere cannot be uploaded to Vella!

[cherrystark]

@sarahmassey998 from what I've read, they don't want you post work you are selling through another avenue like ebook or self publishing.

@writercynknapp I'm also a sci-fi writer and I'm on Fictionate.me

[crisyah]

Sorry, forgot to add bc I'm still half asleep, but even if you were to take the story down from Tapas, you still can't put it on Vella, as the terms are rn. Only new content that hasn't been made available before, in any language is being accepted.

You can, however have the story up on Vella and other paying websites, at the same time.

[therosesword]

Keep in mind most of what they're working through now is Beta so things will change. From what I read the other day and comments made thereafter there appear to be a few changes already.

The best advice I can give you is to do your due diligence and accept nothing as the final say (including my information) , I've already sent the prelims to my attorney to go through and also to some publishing people I know. Everyone (haven't heard from the attorney) has an opinion.

And, as it is pretty beta, you know it's going to change.

[sarahmassey998]

Ah the joys of small print, I've got the lawyers website bookmarked so I'll be interested to see if Amazon reacts to the feedback the writing community gives. Like I said this might be an experiment on some of our parts, just put an unpublished book on the site to see how it really works. A sharks are born swimming kinda situation. It'd be a fun side project if a group of Tapas author's wanted to volunteer as tribute.

[crisyah]

If you write LitRPG or some of the other popular genres on RoyalRoad, you can get popular there, open a Patreon and maybe even make a living off of writing. I knew a few authors who do. But the community is... Peculiar and loves their tropes, so if that's not what you write, then it may be a waste of your time.

[crisyah]

I've seen authors who stand anywhere between "I'll give this a try and see how it goes" and "I'm not touching it". On my part, I've emailed Amazon pointing out the worst parts of the terms and am gonna be waiting a while to see what they change and don't change before release. Not in the US, so couldn't jump the bandwagon early, anyway.

What didn't inspire much confidence was looking at readers' reactions and seeing most of them saying they were not going to touch Vella. Granted, it was reddit and everyone on reddit is just a big ol' grump, but their reasoning seemed to be tied more to the fact that the app will be iOS / Android and not on Kindle itself, where they prefer reading, which is a somewhat of a fair criticism. If the idea was to tap into Amazon's readers for this, there might need to be a lot more rethinking in the works, including a new Kindle that supports Vella (which people were asking for and seemed on board with getting, Amazon just needs to deliver; heck, they may have already foreseen it and have it in the works).

But, for now, it all looks a lot like "Amazon sees Kakao and Naver buying up the English speaking webnovel market and wants to get their share before that happens", which... Might not turn out great, as everything seems so hastily put together and both of those other companies have been into the serialized fiction business for years and are giants in it. But that's a whole other thread to be made. Another good article to read is this one!

[therosesword]

A good article, thanks for posting it. I'm pretty tied with my two main pieces on Tapas, Dead Souls is optioned for a screenplay and now the paperwork is being done for Bright Morn TV rights so even with new books in the slot for Bright Morn I can't move on my own, I need to work with the rights holders. I may hold all other rights but they do have input on what I do with those rights against possible affects to theirs... standard.

It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out and who other players will be when they step out of the shadows.