Any advice for fantasy webcomics?

CallMeMattheww 2019-06-08 08:48:56 UTC #1

Basically anything that you find annoying that they do and how you feel they should improve?

for me the biggest thing I wish all fantasy writers would do is stop being vague and ambiguous with their stories, It never works imo, fantasy stories are at a disadvantage only because the genre doesn't tell you what the story will be about and most webcomic writers aren't helping because they don't say it either, instead they use the first chapters for exposition of their universe (that doesn't go anywhere or tell you anything) or alternatively they add a lot of action scenes with some ambiguous dialogue

So my suggestion would be to keep exposition to maybe 3 - 5 frames and by the end of chapter 1 let the reader know exactly what the plot of the series is as well as establish what the stakes of the story are

unknown_user 2019-06-08 09:31:37 UTC #2

I find the most annoying, when all the plot is described in the following one sentence:
The team of swordsman, wizard, healer, The Main Character and His Girlfriend (they all usually have races from the list: ["elf", "gnome", "human", "dryad" and "orc"]) go and defeat great Evil. The end.

DokiDokiTsuna 2019-06-08 10:04:06 UTC #3

Really?? The typical expositions of 'once upon a time', etc., or like @tired_programmer said, 'a group of valiant heroes go to defeat the dark overlord ' isn't explicit enough for you??

I don't know what subset of fantasy you're used to, but in general fantasy stories tend to tell you EXACTLY what they're about, to the point where the whole genre is getting to be more of a trope. I think a lot of people would enjoy a fantasy story that meandered a little more, exploring its world like stories in sci-fi and the 'space opera' subgenre, instead of just shouting 'WE'RE OFF TO SEE THE WIZARD' over and over for the whole plot. =/

JRHoch 2019-06-08 10:39:23 UTC #4

I'm with you about long exposition. I wish people used narrative more to explore character's motives and feelings instead of dry facts.

IndigoShirtProd 2019-06-08 14:11:18 UTC #5

There are tons of layers to a good fantasy story, from the characters to the subplots to the world building. It's all a matter of balance and knowing when the right time is to dole out exposition like your life depends on it and to leave it to the readers to figure out. The trope of fantasy is a focus on the world rather than the characters. Your world may be the coolest thing ever, but no one's going to care about the intricate details unless they matter to the plot. And no one is especially going to care if all of your character's are one note tropes in themselves. Character can make a world come alive . Flat characters with no substance makes the the reader want to burn a overly detailed world down and the characters along with it .

I think the best fantasy stories take the cliched conventions and either throw them out the window or twist them to suit their story. It's fine to work with tropes; they are the cornerstones of any fantasy story. To only work with tropes and cliches and not transform any aspect of them might leave your reader bored. The only case I see such a story structure being okay is if it's played for laughs.

I think the best advice I can give is make and work with your characters first. Good characters will thrive in any setting. Your reader isn't connecting with your beautifully constructed, (yet poorly exposited) world. They are connecting with your characters. Characters they should love (or hate) depending on what you want out of them.

World building should come second. World building, to put it lightly, is a major time sink. It can pull an author in for years and everything written down might not even be in the story. If your going to world build first, because guess you feel the need you have to, start with some basics.
-What is the planet, continent(s), country(ies), or kingdom(s)?
-What is the weather/ climate like? (keep in mind this might vary if your characters go to different places)
-What is the government(s), social structure(s), and culture(s) like?(keep in mind this might vary if your characters go to different places) (religion, clothing, etc)
-What do the people look like? ( are there fantasy races, monsters, is everyone human)
-What is the magic system( if there is one)? What is the history of the magic and its integration into the world.
Then there are more details to think about: architecture, education, occupations, etc, etc.

And my final tip is: DON'T start the story with exposition(unless you absolutely need a prologue, or starting monologue). Your reader will get bored, won't care, and will put the story down. If your world building is good and your story is structured well, exposition should be naturally given throughout the comic.

JeanGuillet 2019-06-08 14:55:25 UTC #6

Like any story, get your main conflict out there fast. I absolutely loathe prologues, and even worse, moving that prologue after the first scene, it doesn't matter at the beginning that there is an ancient curse/prophecy/bunch of warring gods. No one cares about your characters or the world at the beginning, all they care about is the conflict, getting to like a character or world takes some time. It's better to work the prologue information into the story as you go.

CallMeMattheww 2019-06-08 16:53:55 UTC #7

'Sorry if the response is kinda long I tried to summarize it as best as I could while keeping all my main ideas'

I agree that most fantasy stories tell you what the story is about but I feel even when they do they still remain vague and ambiguous, to give you an example of stories that are actually explicit IMO:

Houseki No Kuni: In the first chapter the lore is given, the overall plot of the story is also given but in addition to this they also offer the emotional weight of all these ideas, like Phos wants to be on the front line, you see what happens on the front lines, you get to understand that the moon people are here to take them away and you also get to understand why it is they want to stay together and lastly you're shown a character who doesn't wants to be taken away and there you also find Phos's motive, all this together is what ensures that the story isn't vague and the only questions you're left with is what happens next

In contrast tho, fantasy webcomics would introduce the lore and overall plot (Evil overlord needs to be killed) but they rarely talk about why / character motives / what all these ideas mean and so the story remains very vague where not only are you left wondering what's going to happen next but you're also left wondering what the story is actually about

I think one way to describe what a lot of fantasy webcomics do is that they're talking but not saying anything but that's just how I feel whenever I read their work

CallMeMattheww 2019-06-08 17:02:08 UTC #8

This is really the best advice I think every fantasy webcomic creator needs to see only because I was that writer where it took me about 2 years to do such detailed world building but it never made it into the final story and as a result my characters suffered because they were 1 dimensional tropes whereas my world was very rich is detail but it was also poorly executed which really hurt my story overall

studiostepone 2019-06-08 17:17:02 UTC #9

Umm i tell the story and explain the setting along the story bit by bit, since i want the reader to experience the same feeling as the main character who stranded in the mystical setting..

Here is my comic

https://tapas.io/series/CANDALA/

DokiDokiTsuna 2019-06-08 17:48:53 UTC #10

I think your definition of 'what the story is about' is vastly different from the norm...as far as I know, most people think of 'what the story is about' in terms of the plot and how easy it is to predict the next event. Typical 'kill the demon lord' fantasy adventure? Simple plot, predictable storyline: it's pretty clear what the story is about.

Houseki no Kuni? Extremely complex plot, unpredictable storyline: it's actually not very clear what the story is about. =/ Literally ANYTHING could happen in the next chapter, and there are a million different ways it could end. And to be honest, most of the character motives aren't very clear either. Not criticizing: I like HnK that way, it feels really suspenseful and realistic. But it's by far the most nebulous story I've ever read.

Anyway, I'm just saying I think there's a more accurate word/phrase for what you're trying to describe...although I still don't know what it is. Are you just saying the individual character motives should be stronger?? Or that the stories should have stronger themes??

CallMeMattheww 2019-06-08 18:52:04 UTC #11

Hmmm I do think that I might be using the wrong words tho because I do want a stronger theme and motivations but maybe it would be better to offer other examples because I honestly don't know the term for it and maybe you'll be able to find it with the examples:

Promised Neverland; Ch 1 established the thing you need to focusing on throughout the story, that the kids are being grown as food and they need to escape, they also made it very clear what they're gonna be doing throughout the series (not so much how it's gonna happen but rather what's gonna happen)

Bakemonogatari: (Using the anime so this might be a bad example because of medium jump), it's established without actually describing it but the series is about Araragi helping people who have been affected by apparitions and how they need to deal with their inner-demons to move forward

Code Geass: Lelouch wants to take down the enemy empire and he going to use the geass to do this, the series is then tailored around this information

And also the reason why I mentioned motive is because the character motive helps paint a better picture of the idea of the story, like with Houseki no Kuni, what I felt when watching it was that Phos is in a world where life has a simple procedure and everyone has a purpose except her this causes her to have an existential crisis and then she meets another girl who is as useless as her and has the same existential crisis which in turn makes her want to find a job / purpose for Cinnabar in hopes that if she can find a purpose for herself as well and all this extra info helps to gives the story a clearer image in my head

And now the thing is I can't do these breakdowns with many fantasy webcomics and that's why I assumed it was a vague plot related issue but it could honestly be something completely different idk, all I do know is that with a lot of fantasy webcomics the author does tell you what's happening and what the end goal is but I always feel like it's lacking in some way, like there's something they're forgetting to say about the plot because as the series develops I very quickly get lost as what any of their writing is attempting to do and it also becomes a big problem that the characters and their motives aren't helping in explaining the story to me.

I really don't know what you would describe all this as and I'm worried that I might be sounding crazy, but I do feel feel like it's something many fantasy webcomic creators forget to do

kiplothedungeoneer 2019-06-09 00:20:40 UTC #12

Ok, I feel like this is quite obvious, but also REALLY important. You. Must. Have. Internal. Logic. What I mean is you can’t say “a wizard with unspecified powers did it” to get your characters out of a tight spot (unless you have an amazing reason to). You can’t say gravity stops working every 100 years randomly to make your characters not dye from falling. I KNOW it seems obvious, but lots of writers, even experienced ones, jump the shark in fantasy stories! Soft magic isn’t bad, it’s only bad if you don’t set it up properly.

I guess what I’m trying to say is almost always set up something before the big conflict. I say almost, because sometimes it can ruin the final conflict if something has been set up previously, but always try and build to or hint at it at least.

Basically always set things up in some way. Don’t just say magic did it.

Unless it’s absurdist comedy…

Then I guess it’s fine : )

JeanGuillet 2019-06-09 01:45:42 UTC #13

I would read an absurdist comedy fantasy webcomic. this sounds great.

AVXP 2019-06-09 04:29:45 UTC #14

So....what's the purpose of this thread/exercise? Are you/ Is the OP/ writing a fantasy comic and He/she/You want advice on 'what to avoid doing?' Or is this a ton of advice for a non-existent-future-webcomic-maker who is supposed to stumble across this thread and pay heed to all the things other creatives/readers dislike?
- And then create accordingly?
Or are we all just venting?

I'm confused.
I find all of this a weird exercise without considering the actual reading audience. What we get is usually a bunch of creatives giving advice as if they are readers. And it's always bad advice. Well, not always, but usually. When you create something, the most important person is your probable reader.

People who are REALLY into webcomics and have read 100s of them and have TONS of 'tropes' that bother them.
Even staples of the genre bother them. "Oh no, a heroic hero and a villainous villain....boring!"
"Do something original!"
"Do something original"

Yes, original TO THEM. Original to a person who has been digesting this (kind of) content for years.
But is that every reader? The majority of readers? The readers that are likely to start reading a free webcomic, you know, just because? A Tapas veteran who's been on the site for 6 years and reads EVERY [insert genre] comic and gives everything and anything related to [insert genre] a chance? Are there enough of those to build a sustainable comic?

All those tropes and common trends is what hooked them. THAT is what made them fans/readers/followers. What we have is a segment of the audience that has OUTGROWN that stuff. Some want more of what they love and others want something new. If you turn over EVERY idea and commonality, you run the risk of not fitting in that genre or not appealing to the reader base that likes and expects that stuff.

I say the real challenge is to name what replaces all those tropes and accomplishes the same goal.
It's easier to say don't do XYZ than to name a new and interesting EFGs. We also have the problem of this being a webcomic. Any reader will tell you they don't care about world building or lore or long prologues. And when I say don't care, I mean they are FINE with you adding extra details. Add as many as you like. Take as many pages as you like. Name all the kingdoms and supply maps and show lineage and who did what- when. And you know what a reader does? They turn pages and skip past that and start your story. And once they fall in love with your story, they turn back and digest all those early dumps.

Webcomics are hampered by the release schedule and the possibility of waiting 5 weeks before you get to a single comic panel. Once the story gets going we can all scroll past the stuff we don't want to read at the start.

One of the worst ideas ever -is to create something for an audience of other creatives.
Don't make music for musicians and don't make comics for people who make comics.
Cook for people who are hungry, not for chefs.
You get the idea.

Darth_Biomech 2019-06-09 15:03:49 UTC #15

how about a world that's not populated with dragons, elves and other stock material, but neither is humans are the only sapient being there?

"Stone age fantasy" is a thing that's untapped, but promises lots of creativity if done right and not portraying stoneagers as "Uuga you head hit". Shamans and warlocks instead of wizards, primordial spirits and animism, hardships of an ending ice age plus lots of vicious megafauna that's still roaming around...

OttoGruenwald 2019-06-11 21:05:35 UTC #16

I remember William Gibson in Distrust that Particular Flavor praising the "You flew the gullfire over Leningrad" line from Escape from New York as the way to do worldbuilding. Worldbuilding is the cornerstone of fantasy. You're making a setting marked by its differences from real life so it better be a good one and that's how I feel worldbuilding should work--natural, staccato, implied.

In early parts of Power of Stardust I think I went too far into the worldbuilding, but to be fair I had two multiverses to compare and contrast in ten page. But I always tried to keep the worldbuilding to brief glimpses--stick and move, stick and move.