Are we a bit "subscribe crazy"?

[indagold]

I guess anyone likes exposure but when it comes to being a self centered pile of garbage things are different. I see already people on who are popular artists bitch and whine they wish they were more popular or people who don't have patience and go apeshit after posting their comic after 5 seconds and wondering why they don't have 5000+ suscribers. Also people who seem to suck and have little skill always mistaking their ability as better and become rather narcissistic over their perceived aptitude. They seem like the type to get really obsessed over subscriber count.
This applies everywhere though. I see it nearly on all art and writing sites.

[Greg_Dickson]

I'm going to chime in now, because I know that I've made a post or two, relating to the topic. I did make a couple of suggestions in a previous closed thread on ways I thought small creators could find a way to get more noticed. Among them, yes, I did mention that it would have been nice to have some kind of thread where larger creators could check into smaller creators comics, see if there's anything they genuinely would like to promote, and maybe take a minute or two to chime in. However, I never said it with the tone to guilt trip anyone. In fact, I specifically said I was making my suggestion with the intention not to guilt trip anyone or place a blame on anyone.

I've been thinking about this more today, and now that I really have taken some time to mull it over...the cause for a lack of views may just be because summer is here. Aren't kids now getting out of school, and everyone doesn't want to spend their time inside reading webcomics? Granted, I have been discouraged today, but I also know that fame doesn't come in a day. We do create for ourselves, but I do believe that we all create for others to take joy in our creations too. I think we all come here with a dream to grow, and the way it is, some grow faster than others. I think that some people get frustrated seeing their work come to a standstill. I know that I've done everything possible for my comic so far since I've started. Release content weekly, be vocal in forums and in comments in other people's comics, and I even went as far as to set up a twitter account and learn how to use it. But despite all of that, I may have currently hit my viewer/sub peak. But after reading this thread, I've noticed that this hump I'm stopped at won't improve until I release a lot more content. I had a good talk with Kayke today, and she made a good point to me. When you start your comic, if you don't have many pages, it's like only having the content of the first 5 minutes of a movie. As good as it may be, it's still only a short amount. People haven't gotten the chance to know or to be invested in your characters and story yet.

I've really learned a lot today after all of these threads and discussions. I'm not going to lie, there are still some feelings of discouragement. It's only natural. But there have also been feelings of hope given to me. Despite how hard and discouraging it may be, I'm going to be strong and see this through. Because in the end, my comic is for me, and hopefully when it picks up steam someday, I'm hoping it can be for some of you too.

[miseryhunting]

Well, of course people are subscriber crazy. It's the reason most people are here.

This isn't necessarily true! Remember - a large part of Tapastic users readers only! I didn't pick Tapastic because I thought I would get more subscribers or hoped o get numerous followers, but because it's easy to use and lets me keep track of the other comics I'm reading. It was more for the atmosphere than any ambitions. The very decision to post in here is already upping your chances to find an interested audience as you know this is a comic focused platform used by comic fans.

If your work is good, it's gonna speak for itself. But number of subs is such an unreliable information! Many quality works have very small following, in fact, my 2 favourite comics don't have more than 300 subs, which is small compared to the more popular creators. People unfollow for so many different reasons like number of notifications, specific/problematic topic of the comic, unnatural flow, etc.
So people expecting subs to reflect their "talent level" is unrealistic.

I don't mind people enjoying getting followers or putting some small goals for themselves, but as I mentioned in previous posts, if your wish to get subscribers out weights your desire to actually tell the story, maybe you're doing this for all the wrong reasons.

[Kura]

In my personal experience, the ones most vocal or frustrated or confused about my lack of subscribers are my readers and friends/family. It seems to be a point that comes up in my comments section or in conversations a lot.

"Why are your sub numbers so low?"
"I don't understand why this is not more popular."
"You need to do something to get your numbers up, I've seen some really trash comics with three times the number as you."
"You need more subs."
"How do so little people KNOW about this comic????"
"You're doing something wrong Kura, how are you subs so low?"
"What the hell is with this lack of support?"
"Why is your subcount so low???"
"You REALLY need to do something about your subs."

And yeah, when you're asked that question so constantly all the time you really do start to question 'what am I doing wrong?' even when I usually don't really care too much about numbers as long as the $money$ numbers I'm getting from the comic are not taking a dive and are still able to help with the bills. Though it is nice that a lot of people I know, and readers that I only know as readers, want me to do well and succeed. That flatters me, really it does.

[mappypaint]

I remember when I started uploading my comic online and wanted to have a big subs number, but I never begged for subs from other people. As the years go by I learned that subs/fan count is just a number, and my motivation changed from subscriber numbers to just doing my thing. I've already accepted that my art style, story, etc. won't attract those really high subs numbers, but i'm happy that I just do what I like, something different. I already told people in one of the many other subs thread that my subscriber numbers is struggling only to people who cares so much about subs. If they are after subs then they can just do the same things the popular ones do or do something mainstream.

[Mharz]

I think it's natural for creators to want to have more subs. You know, the more subs you have, the higher percentage/chance you can gain support (monetary and emotionally) at least statistically. But sub numbers should NEVER be the basis of an artists' credibility/validity. Especially if you're just starting out.

At the end of the day, these numbers isn't something people can control and there are no methods/cheats/tricks that are available. So I just accepted that fact and just focus on stuffs I can control: producing more content and market them best as I could. If more people reads then cool!

"My comic ONLY has 20 subs and it's been up for a week? CLEARLY there's a mistake here, I mean, MY comic is GORGEOUS and it SHOULD have 1000+ subs by now!"

That is totally expecting way too much especially if there's only like 5 pages uploaded to the public (Unless you accidentally became viral which is like 0.0001% chance).

I think 20 subs within a week is pretty good progress IMO. I'd be lucky if I gain one in a week.

If they are after subs then they can just do the same things the popular ones do or do something mainstream.

Agree. Just look at the trending stuffs on twitter and then just do a comic/art about it. I doubt you can be true to yourself doing that but it'll definitely gain some traction (probably).

[kkitty]

Really the best advice I can give is networking, and that's just what people are doing here.

But the part B to that that everyone seems to miss is 'do not look desperate'.

[AnnaLandin]

I've seen several people complaining about lack of subscribers while their story/art development is going nowhere and some of the questions asked on how to gain subscribers sound a bit like trying to cheat (aka "give me formula of how I can get people to follow me").

This is an attitude you run across all the time, in nearly every creative field. On Tapastic, it's mainly focused on getting subscribers, because that's an integral part of the site, but you see it elsewhere in other forms - all those people asking talented artists "what's the trick?" as if there's some cheat-code to artistic skill other than "study and practise" applied over a long, long time - or all those people asking successful indie game-devs for the trick to how to "make it", as if there's some secret godmode to being an overnight success.^

No one likes to hear that there is no magic trick or cheat-code to getting good and/or popular - the same way no one likes to hear that most diets aren't gonna make you lost x pounds in y weeks. We like things to be easy and involve a minimum of effort, even though most things are hard and involve a lot of blood, sweat and tears. If there is a magic trick, we can blame our failure on our ignorance of that magic trick, instead of looking hard at our own efforts and trying to see what we could be doing better.

I have a big bunch of subscribers, and I appreciate every single one of them - but I'd still be drawing my comic even if I only had 10 subscribers. As long as someone, somewhere, cares enough about the story I'm telling to want to read it, I'll keep going. Heck, I'd probably keep going even if NO ONE was reading it, because I'm a storytelling junkie. I just might not be doing it at the same pace.

Make no mistake - I've days when I wonder what it's all for, and feel useless because I've posted something on, say, Tumblr, and gotten only crickets chirping in response, and sometimes I still do. It's terribly discouraging, because one of the purposes of visual art is, well, that someone looks at the thing - but I've just kept on going anyway.

It's paid off, but it's taken years. Not everyone wants to put in that kind of time and effort.

^) "Overnight success" is a terrible term, because 99% of everyone who becomes an "overnight success" have been working at it steadily for years, you just haven't been watching them.

[eleoza]

Whenever I get a sub I let out a little happy -squee- sound XD I love and appriciate every sub. It motivates me to work harder, the feeling that people like my work is awesome.
So yes, I understand why people want more subs, there are seriously some amazing comics here that don't get the attention they deserve and I can imagine it must be pretty frustration sometimes.
But overal, I personally think that the base of making your comic should be this question "Am I enjoying drawing my comic?" As long as you're excited and happy with what you do, that's important.

[Niles]

When I make comics I make it for myself, and I'm very sure many other creators feel the same way when they start off - To begin with. I've kind of noticed this too and I didn't realise it was like this until I hit the internet with my work. It's all about 'subs' and 'ratings' now and I believe that really, your art cannot be rated - Mainly because you are the artist and only you understand it, it's up to others to interpret it for themselves. When you're building ideas and concepts for a comic the first thing that doesn't come into your head is 'this is my target audience' or 'this is who I want it for', no, normally - and should be - 'this is what I want'. I find it baffling when people ask for subs or like you say, complain. I do see a lot of feedback posts but not as often as you should, you should want more feedback other than those subs, then you can improve and then - Maybe - you'll get the right people following your work. I don't think people understand how hard and competitive this area of work is, it's not about uploading and everyone will think you're a genius and you'll get the babes! No, it's about hard work and improvement, the more you do the more you'll get back!
You shouldn't need appreciation, this is for your own work. If you feel the need to be pat on the back for every little thing you do then you shouldn't be doing this right now. It shows a lack of confidence, yes support, but guide people. That's a lot more important and rewarding for the artists standard - What the hell would happen if someone ripped your comic apart with a 'negative' review? People in these situations will crumble, do nothing, and once again complain - And then get their 'subbers' to make them fill better by reassuring. Yes, people rely too much on those subs. In the real world it isn't about that, it's about your quality and of course - The fun. If you're not enjoying it purely because people aren't looking at your work, then you're in it for the wrong reasons.
Sorry for the rant!!

[KSlinger]

If your work is good, it's gonna speak for itself. But number of subs is such an unreliable information! Many quality works have very small following, in fact, my 2 favourite comics don't have more than 300 subs, which is small compared to the more popular creators.

Some people believe being thin and beautiful will solve all their problems. Some people think having loads of subscribers changes the way things are. It doesn't. And it doesn't matter if you have 100k subs or two dozen if your comic can't hold a candle to the masses of other projects gaining traction across the industry every year. There are some absolutely top quality comics on this website that go unnoticed and some less than fantastic ones I see on the front page every day. It just doesn't matter. It's all relative, and, relatively speaking, this is a very small pond.

Also: there is absolutely a subscriber race going on around here and a crazy obsessive feeling to go with it. Then again it's hard to ignore the over night successes on Tapastic and the fact that the same comics (perhaps shitty ones to your mind) end up on the front page day after day, gathering subs effortlessly and generally mocking you from afar. You could be forgiven for assuming their success was down to 'one weird trick' and searching for it. And I agree, it's an sad attitude to take. But that 'trick' is just plain old luck- or rather catering in every possible way to the masses of people on here. You could generate a wonder comic if you really wanted to, but that wouldn't be your comic. So what's the point?

They'll figure it out and stop worrying about it eventually, but in the meantime let people chat about it and get it off their chest. Their feelings are as valid as anyone else's and they aren't doing any harm. I can tolerate that, and I've been there too. It's just one of those things.

[dglisson]

I can tell you that from my personal experience, I remember when I started uploading the first three weeks and I had maybe 9 pages up and I kept thinking, "Why do I have only 10 people subscribed?" I started trying to get my work out there and noticed. I read all the "How do I get more subscribers" threads looking for that secret. I'd compare my work to others' (something I don't do any more unless I'm genuinely trying to pick up new skills through observation). It was madness, I tell you, madness!

Being new to webcomics (I only started doing them late last year, and started posting them online in January) I can tell you the ONLY reason I felt that way was because I kept seeing people with 3 strips or 4 strips up with thousands of subscribers. Measuring myself against those folks, I thought, what the heck is wrong with me? Why am I not getting that attention?
Now I've grown out of that mostly from hanging around the forums and listening to you folks who have been "around the block" so to speak over and over, and I can tell you the moment my attitude changed was when I said to myself "I have 11 subs. I am going to take damn good care of those 11 subs so they feel like the most beloved 11 subs any creator ever had, I'm going to engage them and ask them questions. I am also going to make sure I never miss one of my thrice-weekly updates".

And guess what? Those subs grew. I hit 25, I hit 50, I'm about to hit 100. I didn't do anything crazy to get them, except for following those two rules. Sure I don't have 1000. Maybe I never will. That's not going to stop me from continuing to work to improve, keep making a kick-ass story, and marvel at the fact that after every update I get like 6 comments within 24 hours of people who genuinely LOVE what I do. That makes me feel AMAZING and that's all I need to keep me going.

[keii4ii]

You could generate a wonder comic if you really wanted to, but that wouldn't be your comic. So what's the point?

I think the fact people aren't trying to do that -- make a comic specifically designed to cater to the maximum number of people -- speaks volumes. We're all telling our stories. Even those who get stressed out about sub count -- their priority is to tell their story. They care about having an audience BECAUSE they love the story.

It makes me very uncomfortable when people assume wanting a bigger audience means that's the top priority for the creator. (Not saying that's what you were saying at all! It's just an assumption I see quite often around these parts.)

[GoldenPlume]

Many tend to be "subscriber crazy" because subscriptions are one of the key metrics to determining the success of a series. If you are doing well at school, you get good grades. If you are doing well with a webcomic you are accumulating subscriptions. Naturally everyone wants to do well. So everyone wants subscriptions.

That point established, now we reach the most major issue that all creators face, whether new or old. There are only so many readers to go around (demand) and there is a constantly increasing number of webcomics coming available (supply). Because of the digital age, the comics shelf never drops old stuff off the back end, it just piles up more and more new things to read on top of the old things. Because demand is constant and supply is ever increasing, this means that everyone is competing for the same pool of readers. This obviously ends up generating some animosity.

Think of this as sitting around the table at Thanksgiving and splitting the pumpkin pie. Everyone wants a big slice of subscriptions but there is only so much pie that can be sliced. "Should GamerCat really have half of the pie? That is so unfair. They must have a trick or cheated." And so forth.

But instead of getting into those kind of arguments, why don't we spend our efforts looking for solutions to the demand side (more readers) instead of trying to find shortcuts on the supply end (fighting with other webcomics).

Consider the following solution to our pie problem. Rather than fighting over how to slice the pie, why not just bake a bigger pie? Since we cannot do anything about changing the supply of webcomics, why not focus our efforts on increasing demand by generating more readers? That way everyone has more subscriptions.

Having had the opportunity table at a comic convention promoting Tapastic, it may come as a surprise to some that most comic readers have not heard about Tapastic. Of those we polled, about half of comic readers do not read any webcomics (though many could not articulate why they did not) and of the half that stated they did read webcomics the vast majority had never heard about Tapastic.

Alaingrey brings up an important point. Some have been asking why doesn't Tapastic promote their webcomic. Let's spin that around. Why are creators not promoting Tapastic? Promoting the site means that everyone wins because there's more readers for everyone. Not only that but it makes a creator look really classy if they are not always talking about "me me me" all the time but promoting someone else for a change. "Hey check out this really cool comic that has XX,XXX subscribers and they are in talks about doing an anime based on the webcomic." Something like that really gets people's attention. Then you follow through with, "Oh, if you like that series you might like mine too." That starts a much more interesting conversation than the repeat drone of, "Check out my series." Not to mention if you promote another creator's comic they may turn that around and return the favor. Some people think that popular artists should have to promote them. Why? Who have you promoted? Someone has to start the promotion chain first and why should it always be the other person? Why not you.

"Why did Tapastic feature that creator and not me?" Let's face it. There are 16,000+ series on Tapastic. The odds of being featured are becoming increasingly smaller and smaller. Here are a list of things that are more likely to occur:

Dying from heart disease: 1 in 3.
Writing a best selling novel: 1 in 220.
Being injured while using a chain saw: 1 in 4,644.
Injured by a toilet: 1 in 10,000.

The reality is there are more series on Tapastic than what staff will ever be able to feature. Even if they featured one series each day it would take 43 years to get to everyone. . . not to mention that Tapastic has multiple new series every day.

Tapastic has a tiny staff all of whom are busy trying to build a better site rather than promote our comics. Meanwhile there is an army of 1000s of available creators who can do that job for Tapastic. And how many of those creators are promoting Tapastic (and just not their comics)? Given how few comic readers know about Tapastic, its probably only a fraction of creators who are actively doing so. Consequently the rest of us are just riding on the coattails of a reader population built by others. Let's face it, without Tapastic how many of our webcomics would be randomly stumbled across on the internet? But by posting here we have exposure to 1M+ readers. The least we can do is return the favor and tell others about Tapastic. As Tapastic grows, everyone wins.

So why not give it a try? Pass out fliers at your local comic shop. Host a Tapastic panel at a convention. Mention Tapastic on Twitter and Facebook. We are creative people. There are a number of interesting ways to spread the word that does not cost much if any money. All we have to do is agree as a community to work together to grow the site and everyone will reap the rewards.

In closing: "Ask not what Tapastic can do for you, but what you can do for Tapastic."

[keii4ii]

Rather than fighting over how to slice the pie, why not just bake a bigger pie? Since we cannot do anything about changing the supply of webcomics, why not focus our efforts on increasing demand by generating more readers?

While I fully agree with this principle, the problem is WAY bigger than just Tapastic being not well known. Comics as a whole (including print comics!!) aren't doing so hot in the U.S. Sure, everyone knows Spiderman and Batman and the Avengers, but a huge number of people have only seen the movies. And if you include comics that aren't Marvel/DC... the problem gets even worse.

Also, I have reservations about some of the suggested approaches:

Not only that but it makes a creator look really classy if they are not always talking about "me me me" all the time but promoting someone else for a change. "Hey check out this really cool comic that has XX,XXX subscribers and they are in talks about doing an anime based on the webcomic." Something like that really gets people's attention. Then you follow through with, "Oh, if you like that series you might like mine too."

This works great online. But I wouldn't consider doing this at a convention, ESPECIALLY if I am tabling. Speaking as a consumer, it would weird me out if an artist behind a table were promoting something that's not theirs. At an artist alley, I approach an artist because I am interested in THEIR stuff. I don't want to talk about something else, unless it's directly related to something they're selling (e.g. if they're selling a fanart of X, talking about X makes perfect sense).

The most an artist can do while tabling is promoting their Tapastic address, even if they have a 'main site' elsewhere. (And I know people do this already; some of them have even promoted their Tapastic address as THE address!) They could even mention things like "yeah, this site is great if you're reading on mobile, and they send you notifications when your favorite comics update." But beyond that just seems... weird, almost inappropriate. Like hosting a panel? Shouldn't it be the staff doing that? Not because it's "their responsibility," but because... it feels like I don't have the right to do it?

Of course, if someone savvier than me tries this out, and succeeds... more power to them. I just can't think of a way to make it work in that context.

This is a great topic though, and maybe you should make a separate thread for it. Lots of room for productive discussion; it's just some of it would be kind of off topic for this particular thread.

[PorcheJ]

Everyone here has amazing and helpful advice. I'm not too fancy with words, but I would like to share a few things as well.

It's about the passion and engaging with your readers. When you continue your work and keep up with updates (unless you have something come up, explaining to the readers ahead of time), that shows the readers you're passionate. In the past, I've been worried about subscribers and numbers as well. We all did that at some point.

Here's the thing... Don't see readers as numbers. Instead, see them as people. People to chat with and and have fun with.

After all that worrying, you realize, "It's not about stats or popularity... It's about working on my passion and caring for my readers. Engaging with them and asking them questions." Communication and passion are very important. Connect with people and support them as well. If you do that, you'll not only be seen as a good creator, but as a good person.

Also, get out there! Go to conventions and share your work with others. You'd be surprised at who you might inspire. As I said before: Communication.

I am so thankful to have family and friends that care. Without them, I would've lost my passion years ago. But they kept pushing me. As well as readers.

So! The main things are: Keep making comics, chat with your readers, support other artists, and keep your readers updated. As long as you do that, you will never lose that passion. Just keep making comics and stay passionate.

[guilleum2]

I won't lie sometimes I get subscriber crazy. I get so discouraged, like my art sucks or my story is garbage.
But I always step back and say hey, at least I HAVE some. It's only a few but I cherish them very much.

[PotooGryphon]

Are we a bit "subscribe crazy"?

Well, there are two camps of webcomic artists; those that want to make a career of it, and those that create as a hobby. Those that create as a hobby tend to more easily disregard their comic stats because they're just creating for the joy of it and no needs beyond that. Those that create because they want to become/or are professionals at it also create for the joy of it but tend to need to focus on their stat numbers so they can grow and sustain themselves. In both cases, I don't think either one is "subscribe crazy".

I think the "subscribe crazy" mentality comes from more amateur creators or creators that do get addicted to watching stat numbers grow, ie. the creators that obnoxiously self-promote to the point that it gets to be a turn off.

I think for most for us though, the answer is no, because we're not after just any and every subscriber we can get. Most creators want subscribers that are truly interested in their story and follow because they get something out of it. It's up to us creators to do our best to find this target audience through effective promoting and joining communities that align with interests relating to our comic. Because truly, if the artist doesn't promote their series they'll never get infront of the eyes of people that'd truly be interested.

[StevenDacasin]

most unexpected and best comment on this forum.

[StevenDacasin]

I'll admit I am one of those people that are a bit subscriber crazy but I don't spam social media with my comic ( I link my comic when it updates though so idk). I agree with @alaingrey I guess I and other subscriber crazies want validation or our work.