Are we a bit "subscribe crazy"?

miseryhunting 2016-06-07 20:56:30 UTC #1

Before I start, let me explain this.
I've noticed that lately, the types of posts dedicated to self-promotion and questions about achieving popularity have peaked, and while I understand people would like to receive appreciation for their effort I can't help to wonder if many creators work on their comics for all the wrong reasons?
I've seen several people complaining about lack of subscribers while their story/art development is going nowhere and some of the questions asked on how to gain subscribers sound a bit like trying to cheat (aka "give me formula of how I can get people to follow me").
I can honestly say it's baffling.
I don't have many subscribers, but I'm perfectly okay with it considering the purpose of my comic and the stage I am at. Isn't the whole point creating your story because you need it to be told or maybe train your skills? And honestly, desperation doesn't look good on anyone.
While I've met many, many wonderful, helpful and insightful people , I sometimes feel like many others come with "subscribers thirst".
It's just me feeling like this?

alaingrey 2016-06-07 21:05:30 UTC #2

I don't mind too much any more when people complained about stats- a friend explained to me that no one wants to feel like they're making something and throwing it into a void. People like validation, to know the hours and tears they're putting into a work are paying off, and I'm learning to respect the need for that validation...

But here's the but and it's a big one-

I don't mind when people are worried about their stats, but lately it seems there's an undercurrent of Blame running through this. Instead of wondering 'How can I improve to get people interested in my story?' I've been seeing "Why won't Tapastic promote me? Tapastic doesn't care about creators." or weirder "Why won't popular artists promote me?"

That attitude drives me nuts! Why should an artist you don't know randomly promote you? If I promote someone's work it's because I love their work, or they're a friend of mine. I'm not going to promote some rando with a mediocre comic who might lose interest after a few weeks...

Basically I think when people worry about their stats as a measure of how they themselves can improve it's fair enough but when the conversation turns to 'Why don't other people hand me virality on a plate' it gets a little messed up.

69Michi 2016-06-07 21:09:25 UTC #3

I do agree with you on the whole thing about how many topics have been about "how to gain more subscribers" but to me, I just feel like that is absolutely normal. It's human nature to want attention tbh and that is absolutely fine!

Despite how honorable your reason for starting a webcomic is, it's all come down to reader and subscriber once you post it on the internet. If you are doing it solely for the reason of improving your art, practicing, whatever you may call it, then you should be fine keeping your story offline, to yourself, or just share it among your friends. But you chose to publish it online for strangers to see, because you want others to see it too. And the more people like your comic, the more motivated you will feel, and the more effort you will put into your work. Honestly no matter how much you enjoy working at something, if there is no supports, you will get tired of it and eventually drop it. (I once wanted to drop a novel I was writing because I got fed up with it, a really nice person showed up and gave me tremendous support, I ended up picking back up the series and that series ended up with over 100 chapters... LMFAO)

Although I am completely agree with you on this point and think it's really crazy haha ndjwa I'm fine with promoting, I'm fine with self-advertising, but when people started to beg for subs or even worse, guilt tripping/blaming others, it just makes me cringe... //looks to the horizone

thomassayle 2016-06-07 21:12:08 UTC #4

ravioli ravioli give me the formuoli.

AffectedMind 2016-06-07 21:14:07 UTC #5

Oh my god, yes! There was so many topics like that. Some people are just lazy and think the fame will just came. You need to work hard so people can notice you! It's not like youtube when you make a clickbait title x'D You need to show the world you exist!
Some people start to struggle when they are working on something for a long time and there's no results. They should seek for help in a form of review/critique or just feedback not asking how to get subs. Tho on topics like that others try to help as much as they can. I was struggling at the beginning if people will like my work or not, but I wasn't really going on the forums asking how to be popular I was asking others for feedback and started to promote myself all over social media and be as active as I can. The correct question should be "What can I do to be seen" or "Is there anything I can improve" or something along those lines.
I think people should chill a little. Patience plays a huge role as well.

Kayke 2016-06-07 21:18:22 UTC #6

No, it's not just you, haha. A lot of the posts in the forum tend to be about gaining more subscribers. I mean, I personally care about my follower count as well. Art is something I do for myself but also something I do to earn money, so I want as many people to see my work as possible because that could mean more jobs in the future or at least a better reputation.

But to be honest, there is no cheat code, just hard work, so it can definitely be a little tiring to see people complain about their stats. I think the worst was once I saw a thread that was supposed to be talking down on other people's comics that people thought got too much attention and followers, that's just petty in my opinion.

UzukiCheverie 2016-06-07 21:20:19 UTC #7

welp we're done here, this person just delivered ultimate wisdom and we need not wonder anything ever again

/slow clap

Along with people who just haven't improved enough yet to gain those subs, there are also people on the opposite spectrum - people's whose comics are actually pretty good, art and story wise, but they're so damn impatient and petty that it actually turns me off from subbing more.

Ex. "My comic ONLY has 20 subs and it's been up for a week? CLEARLY there's a mistake here, I mean, MY comic is GORGEOUS and it SHOULD have 1000+ subs by now!"

like srsly stfu lol your comic is good but that doesn't mean there are gonna be subs crawling out of the woodwork, there are a LOT of good comics here.

Whether your comic is good OR bad, subs aren't gonna just come flying towards you just because you wish for it. You need to work for it and be patient. If you're not getting subs, don't fucking blame the community or the web host - focus more on improving your craft and marketing yourself. Put that spite into something productive instead of just wallowing in your own ego.

Also yes, believe it or not, quality also plays a role in getting subs. If you're not quite at the artistic level you want to be at, that's okay - we were all there at one point - but instead of acting like you still should be getting more subs than the gorgeous full color realism style comic, work on improving your art and writing and comic-making. Don't blind yourself with jealousy and envy so much that it hinders your own improvements, y'know? That one is just the harsh truth from me though.

niinasalmelin 2016-06-07 21:21:39 UTC #8

I feel you, but it's also like @alaingrey said, it's frustrating if you feel like all your hard work is for nothing.

I think it also has something to do with those few comics that have gotten promotion and many subs with only few updates. Perhaps it makes people think 'ohh it's that fast!' even if in reality you have to be either really lucky, or already have huge following that they've been building for years to make that happen.

tomatobird 2016-06-07 21:31:46 UTC #9

Everything to what everyone has said!! I know it's frustratign when it seems like no one is viewing your stuff, but honestly especially if it's only been a short time, what do you expect? All the greatest most popular webcomics I can think of (that are off-Tapastic) have been running for 5-10 years or more, and I'm pretty sure that they were not that popular at their starts as well!

Thinking about something Austin Kleon said i think in the book "Steal Like An Artist" (or maybe it was his second one) about the positive side of obscurity–it means that you have much more room to experiment and try different things without the same kind of pressure of having an audience that expects a specific kind of thing from you. As someone who has literally just started posting my comic (like, yesterday) Its something I need to remind myself of and honestly it is kind of a relief to be able to work on something I love without worrying too much yet about what people will think...

Iaikaa 2016-06-07 21:50:01 UTC #10

Yeah it can get pretty weird how much people obsess over their subscriber counts. I've come from Smackjeeves to Tapastic and I kinda feel like it's easier to get randomly spotted on Tap so I'm not complaining.

I also think that it's not only matter of how long your comic has been up on the site but how much the story has progressed. I think one reason I'm starting to get more subs per update now is that something is actually starting to happen in my comic/ the new reader can actually get a feel for it. There is no way to tell if a comic is your cup of tea with 5 or even 10 pages (unless it's a gag per day kinda thing, those are kinda easier to judge page by page).

miseryhunting 2016-06-07 21:58:35 UTC #11

@69Erocento I agree with you; for you to put something online you make it available to strangers and sometimes they can become your greatest supporters. However, caring about gaining approval and and obsessing over a number and the speed with which you can accumulate subscribers shouldn't be the same - getting feedback and getting followers is not the same. Does it need to be a huge one too? As in life, not everyone would be the "prom queen". Isn't having 100 people reading your comic, I story you came up with and drew yourself, satisfying? Having small, but friendly following base is just as good and useful when it comes to receiving acknowledgement.
IS there a line, a number, after which a creator can be content? I think this opens a good discussion about creating comics online and the purpose for it. Do we all have to be on top (an impossible feat) to be considered successful? Is and should your self-worth as an artist be entirely dependent on a number?
I know many people want to make it professionally, and there's nothing wrong with that! I respect dedication and hard work.

@thomassayle touche, dude ;D

keii4ii 2016-06-07 21:59:44 UTC #12

It's always been like that as far as I can tell XD

To be honest, I've been hesitant to ask even that because it might look like I just want more subscribers.

69Michi 2016-06-07 22:06:21 UTC #13

Aye, yeah I'm all for an active fanbase/reader than a large amount of subs with little to no communication between me and my readers. I feel like that sort of thing just to contribute into people's pride. The bigger your subs count, the better to brag about it, or something of that line LMFAO To a lot of people, it just makes them feel good about their works looking at a large numbers that give them no /negative/ feedback than taking in constructive but often pointing out one's flaws feedbacks from a smaller but more active subs count.

I do self-promo once in awhile but overall I'm just a chill ~~and lazy~~ person who just sit back and let my art speak for itself. Though I also understand the important of supporter because I do commission and sell arts online too, the more people know about me, the better for my work.

TristanJensen 2016-06-07 22:41:01 UTC #14

Personally I'm more worried about losing the ones I have. But I can see why some people would want to try that method for getting more, people will always think there's a faster way to get somewhere, and they have a good reason to think that. I've seen comics with pretty average art and writing climb the charts while smaller ones with great art kind of linger bellow. I've tried to give shutouts to those because honestly I'd rather see them above me than below*...

This is EXACTLY why I make comics right here.

shazzbaa 2016-06-07 23:09:06 UTC #15

I mean, sure, but usually it's the opposite -- the more readers you have, the greater the percentage of people who want to comment and interact. Wanting a bigger readership isn't always about "I WANNA SEE A BIG NUMBER," sometimes it's just "I really want to see more people engage with this story, and I want to figure out how to get more readers who will."

So I dunno about it always being for the wrong reasons. What I do see is people who have a lot of expectations that aren't realistic, and they don't know it. I remember one thread where someone said "I know it's not easy, but it shouldn't be this hard!" to which creators responded, "No, it actually is this hard, this is normal." Many people have no concept of how long it takes to get known in the field of webcomics, and so younger creators feel behind when it takes them a long time.
And I think that's kinda true everywhere, in every field -- we have the concept of a "Ten Year Overnight Success" because someone who's been working hard for years will still be perceived as an "overnight success" when people suddenly hear of them, and we don't realise how long it took them to get there.

The amount of threads on the subject is frustrating, but I get where it comes from. I don't think it's all people who want to cheat... it's mostly young artists who think they've missed something. That other people know a trick that they don't know. They just don't realise that most of the time the trick is "update consistently for 4 years."
Though I do sometimes wonder if being able to see subscriber numbers is hard on new, young creators, just because it makes you feel like you're supposed to have an audience. I wonder if that's contributing to making some feel that something's wrong if they don't have one yet.

The question strikes me as feeling more all-or-nothing than creators really are. Like, I would continue to tell my story even if I never got another subscriber -- but I would still be excited to get more subscribers. I really want to make it to 1000! Does that mean I'm not content until I reach that arbitrary number? Of course not! It just means I want to grow, and I set myself a little goal to hope for because goals are motivating for me. Is the number the sole definition of my worth? No, of course not! But it is kind of cool to have a sorta tangible measurement of readership to look at.

I don't think it's ignoble to have an audience and still aim to grow!

sorrelma 2016-06-07 23:43:47 UTC #16

this attitude frustrates me so because tbh tapastic has great response time for feedback and the team does a lot to help out with making the site run + accommodating both readers and creators. it's actually super refreshing(for me at least) to see staff that care so much about users ESPECIALLY creators !! it seems so rude and dismissive to say they don't do enough for not promoting every comic but i see this attitude so much ;;

i understand the desire for attention. everyone feels that. of course i want more subscribers and more validation; at the same time, i've been running webcomics for a long time and i understand that part of it is successful marketing, part is quality content, and part is luck. there isn't an.. exact equation for success per se - but people will still go looking for it. i can't really blame them. i think it happens in any industry.
but also i mean... you have to remember that every subscriber you gain is a person(or a bot) they have their own lives and their own projects(or binary code) so you can't expect everyone in the world to drop everything and kiss your feet, esp if you're not putting out good work and you're not trying to improve !

carloswebcomic 2016-06-07 23:46:02 UTC #17

Well, of course people are subscriber crazy. It's the reason most people are here.
If you put your comic on the internet, it's because you want an audience.
Subscriber numbers gives you a tangible number to asses how well (or badly) you're doing.

Unfortunately, getting subscribers is hard as there is a lot of competition. People are already doing the best they can and not getting the numbers, so they begin to feel that they are doing a lot of work with no return, hence the "how do I get more subscribers?" threads.
People hope for a magic solution to satisfy their hunger for validation.

alaingrey 2016-06-07 23:57:35 UTC #18

Yeah 100%. I've had some friends trying to make an art site and their terrible management really makes me appreciate how forward thinking tapastic is, even if it's just a small site and small team.

I think what people don't realize is that staff curates, and curating means not giving everything the time of day. Some comics don't need to be featured because they're not of a quality that deserves promotion, and I think it's hard for people to see beyond what they imagine they're creating. So yeah, staff does a great job of highlighting those that are deserving, and though it may seem harsh, if you're not deserving, you just need to examine and possibly change what you're making. not saying it's easy to do, or even to come to terms with the possibility you might need to do something, but that's how your art gets better, not by begging for attention.

69Michi 2016-06-08 00:11:41 UTC #19

Statistically speaking, yes, but I have experienced a lot of inactive watcher/subscriber throughout the years to know that bigger number doesn't mean more people would be interacting sadly : ( But to be honest to myself, it always feels good to have a large number of audience.

Most people I saw posting those kinds of question are either too hasty, haven't been doing webcomic for long, or generally... just lazy to search up on other 82390213 topics that are of the same topic already existed in the forum. This is why I can see where the frustration seeing those topics keep popping up came from.

Michelle 2016-06-08 00:46:26 UTC #20

I feel like a lot of creators seriously overlook the value in making genuine connections with other artists. So many people are focused only on getting more eyes on their own work, that they only ever promote themselves. But there's a lot of value to be had in supporting your fellow artists and their work and not always crying "MEMEME!!".

But, like you said, people shouldn't go badgering random popular artists to promote their stuff! If you make genuine connections with people, they'll be more likely to help you out. And the stuff you learn from other artists feeds back into improving your own comics which in turn leads to more readers. :>