Art topic taboos/ Unpopular opinion

[xanedis]

If we look a the words piracy and theft, both entail taking property from someone else - it's just the manner of transportation that changes. XD

[punkarsenic]

its kinda hard to find an 'unpopular' art opinion given the art world is so vast and divided

like a 12 year old whos just discovered drawing will dismiss drawing from life, but an art teacher of ten years might in turn dismiss anime and swear by life drawing. neither opinion is unpopular, it just depends on perspective. and thats just visual art, youve opened it up to 'and writing' - in which case its opened up to film, music, theatre, dance...

so.. going wide, ig my unpopular art opinion is that comics are awesome and have full capacity to be both literature and fine art. oh! also that pop cultural works have more cultural power than high art by means of accessibility and wider reach.

[nikaalexandra]

Unpopular opinion: i don’t care how realistic, photographic, or life-like your drawings are if that’s all you’re bringing to the table. Like past me thinking “wow, that’s neat. Look at how lifelike that portrait of [insert celebrity here] is. Might as well have been a photograph.” Composition, imagination, and overall inventiveness in artwork are super important to me aesthetically- so if the only thing your rendering has going for it is hyper-realism, cool technique but i won’t really care for your work or process.

[punkarsenic]

seconding this! its one of the first things my art teacher taught us in class - the really impressive hyperrealistic paintings you see online show a level of skill, but are overall dull and unimpressive, particularly conceptually.

i think it ties into a really important idea scott mccloud shared about how an artist develops / works, using the metaphor of an apple. when an outsider sees a work such as the death of socrates they might think 'wow, that looks so realistic.' the true greatness of the painting is in the cleverness of the composition - the visuals is the surface sheen, the composition is the actual flesh of the apple. so when ppl take this realistic painting style and apply it to something without concept or composition, not understanding why paintings like it are lauded, its like theyre making a super shiny apple thats totally hollow.

also, paintings just totally moved on from that era. its a good exercise of skill, good to flaunt a few in a portfolio, but its still not really relevant today. we have photos.

[Louhi]

Omg yes, I always wanted to make youtube video about people blaming their teacher for being "mean" because they draw anime, yet in reality these people still by the time of making that video are staying in their comfort zone, drawing same things over and over.

[SleepingPoppy]

Art teachers are not infallible, and any art teacher that makes their students feel bad about their art because they enjoy drawing anime and cartoons is not being a good teacher. That is not to say any artist shouldn't take learning anatomy and drawing from life seriously, but it's totally possible to do that and still draw whatever stylized stuff you like. Just.. you know.. balance here is relevant.

^Felt worth saying, because I've heard of both random jerks and art teachers tell students that they can't do anything stylized until after mastering anatomy, etc. Which is bull. Draw what inspires you, and if you care about becoming a better artist, also study. Hell, drawing a comic is generally highly stylized and involves a lot of repetition, but you draw so much it's almost impossible not to improve.

(Also my college art teacher prefers my cartoony drawings to my more realistic stuff, because he felt it has more charm.)

[punkarsenic]

Art teachers are not infallible, and any art teacher that makes their students feel bad about their art because they enjoy drawing anime and cartoons is not being a good teacher.

hells yeah

i think a lot highschool art teachers have an inflated ego, which rubs against the equally inflated ego of highschool art students, both miss out on the subjectivity of it all. like, a lot of what your art teacher tells you is opinion, and you can disagree - but also, the experience they have is worth taking into consideration (most of the time. some art teachers are just abysmal, no two ways)

[Louhi]

No totally, I think what idiotwithpencil and at least me are referring to people who absolutely refuse to draw realism and forcefully draw anime. If you're given an assignment to draw say your classmate and try to capture all their features right, yet you still draw your classmate as big eyed anime character then surely there is a problem. A good teacher let's you draw your thing but they also try to push you towards learning something new and if you as a student refuse to do anything that's not done in your way then yes you're probably going to get your teacher breathing in your neck.

[SleepingPoppy]

i think a lot highschool art teachers have an inflated ego, which rubs against the equally inflated ego of highschool art students

Yeah. I was lucky, and both my HS art teachers and college art teachers were supportive of my stuff. But I also know someone whose art teacher called their work trash.

I think what idiotwithpencil and at least me are referring to people who absolutely refuse to draw realism and forcefully draw anime

I do think that was what @IdiotWithPencil probably meant, but since they word it as "drawing anime and cartoons is a sure fire way of getting nowhere" and a lot of people do think that, I felt a response was warranted. But thats also why I specified "balance". A good art teacher will push a student to show they understand the difference between understanding form and drawing what's actually there verses the symbol of it. That probably doesn't involve being mean, trashing anime, or breathing down the students neck. But an obstinate student might get a worse grade for not understanding the assignment. As a student and as an adult the most talented artists I've seen in high school were almost always inspired by anime. All of them have taken improvement seriously, though.

My particular issue here is that instead of saying "Don't just draw the same anime thing over and over again" I want people to say "You will get better at drawing anime/art if you also draw XYZ". While also being aware that art isn't only about getting better and becoming a professional. For some people it could be for fun or therapeutic, and that's okay too. I think part of being an art teach is recognizing the goals of your students while still encouraging them to get better.

EDIT: Really don't mean any of this argumentatively. It's just my thoughts after reading what you and pencil said. I'm not salty or anything.

[Rhonder]

As a student and as an adult the most talented artists I've seen in high school were almost always inspired by anime. All of them have taken improvement seriously, though.

I noticed and agree with this observation as well! Many talented, young artists like to draw in a stylized way, but what sets them apart from others is that they often study and practice seriously, compared to their less dedicated classmates. The crossroads comes when an artist wants to take art seriously but is unwilling to budge their philosophy to actually facilitate growth x__x I'm looking at those "GOSH anime is just my style OK!?" people who clearly have a passion for drawing, but take much longer to improve due to their mindset.

Kind of off topic but I was pretty lucky as a kid. When I got into drawing "seriously" in middle/highschool, I too began with a bunch of crappy generic anime characters and pokemon/digimon/naruto fan comics/characters/etc. However I always appreciated how my mom, instead of sugarcoating me with compliments every time I'd show her something would give me straightforward, blunt critique xD "Wow, why does this guy have (american) football player shoulders?" (in regards to me just drawing the shoulders out at a 90 degree angle from the neck, and then the arms straight down with rounded corners), "all of these people are so skinny...", "what happened to their hand D:", etc. xD Getting advice like that helped me to target my studies towards problem areas and improve a lot faster as a result. Obviously taking art class seriously helped too~

I guess where I was going with that is that if someone gives you advice, take it seriously. Not all advice is good advice, but especially when you're first starting out, take it all in. You'll learn later which ones to dismiss. Pro tip: your teacher's is probably not one to dismiss LOL

[NickRowler]

This has less to do with comics and more to do with the art world and attitude pushed onto students who are studying art in college...

I think art professors preach a very toxic view on art. They all worship Greenberg and push this idea that artists must be starving and make bat shit insane stuff in order to be "good". And telling artists that if they make a profit, they are somehow a "sell out". This philosophy is a modern one and it is stupid. There is nothing wrong with taking commissions, heck the great artists from the Renaissance took commissions, because art was their job. If you are going to college to study art, then you should use what you learned to apply it to a job to make a living. And you don't need to be avant garde, just make what you like and don't worry about being 100% "different", just be interesting.

[IdiotWithPencil]

are referring to people who absolutely refuse to draw realism and forcefully draw anime.

yeop =P
these types of people (myself included) really go nowhere until they leave the anime or cartoons scene and, as the gamers say, git good by learning the fundamentals of drawings

That probably doesn't involve being mean, trashing anime, or breathing down the students neck.

ok who trashed anime *loads the weeb-bazooka" who dares? I'm gonna fuck them up two ways till Friday those uncultured hick!!! D:<

being serious if you go to an art course or are just a hobbyist sure this type of thinking is great and I approve of it

BUT

(and this is the biggest but you will ever see)
the moment you go to and art college or a designer/animation school, this goes out the window by the simple fact that they are trying to make you into a professional artist who can draw/paint from realism to minimalism in a high level way, not just your style or anime/cartoons but in all styles (nobody will hire you outside the internet if you can't produce high level pieces in a quick way sadly)

edit: also you can always draw outside of class whatever you want, just pick your places and time

but that's just my unpopular opinion so take whatever I say with the smallest grain of salt on the world

@NickRowler
in the words of Adam from Adam ruins everything "why do people think having serious mental issues makes you a better artist?"

[inkythoughts]

This seems to be a huge taboo in art community to even point out, because none of us would like the idea someone telling us that the comic we made and are trying to sell is now posted free on the internet and it's supposedly ok. But the facts speak for themselves, you can even google how piracy affects sales but every article that pops out is going to say totally opposite.

I think it's a big difference if the creator's name is still linked to the product or not, and I think games/movies also are a different medium in this respective than for example photography or illustrations. I would consider comics somewhere in-between as you spend more time with the product and might end up doing your own research, but if it's just a nice pic on instagram/tumblr/twitter/whathaveyou, this most likely won't be the case.

However I always appreciated how my mom, instead of sugarcoating me with compliments every time I'd show her something would give me straightforward, blunt critique xD

My mum did this too (she's an art teacher) and sometimes I think that it put me in adventage because I always wanted to make her go "well done" just once but it was much harder to get there compared to other partents or my actual art teachers in school. Definitely pushed me to work harder and not be satisfied too easily.

Another unpopular opinion: there definitely is something beyond skill.

I have seen so many pieces by artists who definitely have artistic skill (good anatomy, lighting, composition, literally EVERYTHING) but like facial expressions never feel real or the bodies remain stiff even in truly dynamic poses, and then you have artists with not even half of their skills but somehow it just works out.
I wouldn't even know how to improve the first type because going simply by how I know those things work/can be improved (e.g. wrinkles, squishyness etc., literally any type of tool to make it more expressive/dynamic), they already have all of this and they still look somewhat dead or mask-like.

[UrMom]

Meh, I hate myself enough. -prepares to ignore notifications for a few weeks-

Unpopular opinion: Art isn't subjective, what you like is. Art is the product of years of hard work, studying, and experimentation. A 30 second doodle someone with no drawing experience did while waiting to connect with a call center shouldn't be put in the same category as a painting accomplished by a seasoned creator, which took an entire year to finish. Even if you personally likes the doodle over the painting, the doodle is not art.
Similar thing with style. Not everyone who tries to stylize has a style, it develops as you grow and learn. You can't have a style without understand what you're stylizing, without learning flow and structure, and studying from life. (Unless you're going for a heavily stylized look like Hello Kitty or Mickey Mouse, but you still need to at least know the basic shape and placement of things for them to be recognizable)

Also not everyone who creates something is an artist. Artists are creators with an unconditional love for the craft, finding joy in working with it, and wanting to grow and be the best they can be regardless of how difficult the obstacles may be. (someone who doesn't give up after minor criticism) Just like how not everyone who cooks something is a chef, or how baking a pie in a solar panel oven you created from aluminum foil and cardboard doesn't make you scientist.

ALSO also! I'd like hyper realism more if there was something more dynamic done with the painting/drawing/whatever? Most hyper realism stuff is just a straight on shot of a person, or eyes, or standard view of a face, and the poses are so... bland. None of it shows life.

[Louhi]

These are good opinions imo and I also agree on ”not everything is good art”. Anyone can call anything art but there is actually set of guidelines what makes art ”true art” and what is just an amateur’s doodle.

[SleepingPoppy]

Anyone can call anything art but there is actually set of guidelines what makes art ”true art” and what is just an amateur’s doodle.

One of the biggest debates in the art community is how to define what “true art” is, so I’m not sure it’s fair to say there are definitive guidelines. More, there are guidelines to help us identify qualities in art and help us create art. Just my two cents there, and probably debatable amongst artists anyway. Lol

But I do agree that different pieces have different artistic value, and that the effort and skill put into a piece are relevant to that value. But I have a pretty ephemeral view on “judging” art in part because it is so complex and vast.

Unpopular Opinion Segway..

Video games are art! While I don’t believe every video game has high artistic value, I absolutely believe video games are art in the same vein as movies. It takes artists to create video games. Environments and characters are crafted. Storyboards are drawn. Etc etc etc. probably not that unpopular an opinion amongst us comic nerds? But definitely something the art community debates.

[UrMom]

My line is normally drawn at that phase of semi-mediocrity. When you get the super basics and you're starting to experiment with the more advanced stuff like composition, color theory, dynamic poses and angles, stuff like that. Like you don't need to be the next Da Vinci, just have a mostly solid style and understanding of basic stuff. Work that shows you put time into developing it pretty much.

Also agreed that (non-asset flip, dime a dozen, cash grab) games are totally art! Ever play Child of Eden? The game itself wasn't that great, but DANG it was some creative eye candy. Same with the Myst games, and Bioshock, and... a lot of stuff really.

[SleepingPoppy]

I can agree with that. I liked the cooking verses chef metaphor btw.

I have! Bioshock in particular is such a good game. And an example of art + game really working and creating something awesome. I think people forget when they see 3D worlds and characters that everything they’re looking at was still designed and crafted. A computer didn’t fart it all out.

[CurlyComics]

Amen! somebody finally said it!
I have friends that are in art school (I myself am not) that strongly believe that comics are not considered art.
And just because I never had formal artist education (and because i do comics) cannot be considered an artist.
What they fail to see, I believe, is that comics, as you said, entail writing, directing and drawing that can be very well be considered art individually. So why not when they are combined? where is the line where something is and is not considered art? Is it the hours you put in a piece? Is it the quality of a work? Is it the medium used?

[punkarsenic]

essentially the issue is that comics is a relatively new medium, facing the scrutiny of film and tv before it - and comics got a really bad start in life in america due to censorship laws. thered grown this public perception that comics were for children, so any vaguely adult storylines or genres - such as horror - were severely axed. modern western comics have an origin in vaudeville and newspaper funnies, and when will eisner started fighting for comics as literature, the olds and greats of comics took him less seriously than the wider art world even did.

things are different now weve had eisner, spiegelman, bechdel, all sorts of great graphic novels and movements, and various different prizes such as the lynd ward award and the eisner prize. but i still think theres a lack of wider recognition of their validity, especially given the massive prominence of marvel and DC in the west. when i say im making comics to other writers, a lot of people come back with something like 'oh yeah childrens books are really important.' LMAO my comics are Not for kids