Art topic taboos/ Unpopular opinion

[Zugaikotsu]

I put a lot of details on mine. I think mostly it depends of each artist. Many might be more worried about accomplishing deadlines (in case of webtoons artists who want pledges) than improving their stuff. And good backgrounds may take a lot of your beauty to do.

[bakasama25]

Well, those webtoons are done on weekly basis with often no assistants. Japanese do have have assistants (oftentimes not credited by the publisher) for their weekly manga. That's pretty hard to do backgrounds with that kind of timeframe to work for a solo artist.

There are webtoons with a lot of world building like Tower of God, Kubera for LINE Webtoons.

Black Behemoth, Devil Sword King, and They Say I Was Born a King's Daughter. Tapas but these are pay to view.

Ghostblade, and The Wormworld Saga. These are free but they a WHILE to update. They also have nice backgrounds.

[Cavechan]

That is true, I have seen some barren page comics for sure. Hell, even some of my own pages, especially earlier on can be that way. It's a challenge to draw settings for sure!

[Cavechan]

Yes, deadlines indeed can inhibit the opportunity to do detailed backgrounds/settings when you're under pressure. I don't know how some of the manga artists do it, even with assistants it's pretty amazing. Though there have been a few instances recently where the chapters of Black Clover and My Hero Academia ended up being only half-inked in the magazine.

@bakasama25 Thank you! I'll check those out!

[Zpreader]

Well, those webtoons are done on weekly basis with often no assistants. Japanese do have have assistants (oftentimes not credited by the publisher) for their weekly manga. That's pretty hard to do backgrounds with that kind of timeframe to work for a solo artist.

This subject has actually been really interesting to me ever since I started reading korean webtoons. So much so that I spent alot of time looking up some YT channels run by korean artists to look into some of the shortcuts they use. Color references, custom made materials for complex objects (shrubbery, debris, chains, etc.), Sketchup, reused blurred backgrounds, it's pretty cool stuff. I feel like there's alot to learn there.

[60Six]

Can't recommend these two comics enough as examples of beautiful vertical scroll comics:

The Sixth Dalai Lama | Tapas

18 Saints are 18 Sinners | Tapas

First one becomes pay to read after a certain point, but I still highly recommend at least checking out the free episodes for some gorgeous art that definitely doesn't skimp on backgrounds!

I also like to think I don't really skimp on backgrounds, so I guess there's my comic too ahah... But I don't think it's as good of an example of a vertical scroll comic yet, as it was traditionally formatted and reformatted to vertical. However, starting literally this week, I'm drawing pages vertically so I hope it'll be a better example of vertical scroll comics as of this upcoming chapter ahaha.

City of Blank | Tapas

[Luminosophy]

It's funny because I think I found the opposite. Long form scrolling pages tended to have more attention to BGs in them because they were hyper focused on mood and atmosphere. Where as I found page forms were sometimes largely lacking in environmental development. I guess for me, that is my unpopular opinion. I just can't get into comics that only have characters drawn, because so much context is lost for me. It feels claustrophobic only ever viewing people that exist in the white vacuum of space. I suppose I find it strange that you would want to create a comic but omit the most important character of all : the world people live in. And to the people that say "well it's too hard to draw backgrounds" ...learning a skill was never meant to be easy.

[bakasama25]

Yeah, I've observed how manga gets made and the one of secrets to making manga is, industrialization. A manga team has a mangaka, a (ghost) writer, an inker, and a gofer etc. but their names are seldom put in the credits.

There's a lot of shortcuts done just to make weekly 25-30 manga. There's tone sheets and pre-made backgrounds and objects you can buy. Their is, at times, an artist that draws props that the characters hold and use. I did save an article about these Japanese techniques by Colleen Doran somewhere. She was with a group of artists in Japan for a cultural exchange back in the 90s. She goes in detail about "secrets" about manga making. If you want, I can share that.

Koreans seem to use many of same shortcuts like Japanese. I've seen many webtoons backgrounds done with 3D programs. Some artists use them to copy/paste, trace, or use them as references. I've some artists vectorized some characters faces for closeups. Lookism seems to have of those closeups. First, there's a character face done at a distance then in the next panel there's a closeup of the face but it's same face but zoomed in.

[Zugaikotsu]

Yes, and now many korean artists use to commission backgrounds from groups specialized in producing them for webtoons. Its really hard to compare to western comics, where so many times the production is made by only one person! Damn, even many comics from the Big Two are monthly and have 'only' 27 pages. And made by a team.

[Zugaikotsu]

What comes to my unpopular opinion. You dont need to drop 100 panel episodes weekly to tell a history with good quality.

[LordVincent]

I guess my opinions will be very unpopular among the people here. Then again I avoid the forums most of the time now anyway so why not a bit more of that.

• There is no objective good or bad with art. Art is made for the sake of expression and enjoyment, and as long as someone sees that in it, it fulfills its purpose to that individual.
  What works for artistic business is a different tale, but tends to depend more on trends and current artistic preference rather than anything objective. Anyone who has studied any amount of art history will see this pattern.
• Some art forms and styles require an understanding of anatomy, others don't. Some styles require an understanding of color, others don't.
  What most require to look appealing, however, is intuition and confidence. A confident stroke will always look far better than one that isn't.
• Your art teacher probably was wrong about something. Maybe even most things. Because they're a person, not the holy sacred treasure God gave to the art world.
• Studying comic art to understand anatomy in comic styles can be productive if combined with real life study and is even something I would recommend. Especially to creators with ADHD and Autism if it behaves in a certain way, however in the case of some creators with those diagnoses I would abstain from suggesting it under any circumstances. It all depends on how they percieve things and make an understanding of the world around them.
• Art noobs will be more thankful for your constructive criticism 99% of the time if it is 1. asked for, and 2. you don't act like you're some art god who knows everything, and you don't neglect or put down their goals in attempt to push your preference.
  I get asked for my feedback all of the time and I don't have this huge problem of people throwing a hissy fit and arguing against me. The few times I do, it's often with a person who is combative about ANYTHING. So I just don't bother giving that specific person proper feedback anymore. If you think people throw a hissy fit everytime you critique their work, then the problem probably lies with you since you are the only constant in this equation.
• Biggest of all: ART DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SO DAMN COMPLICATED AND IT'S OKAY TO LIKE DIFFERENT THINGS, WORK IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAVE DIFFERENT GOALS. Trying to argue your subjective point into something that appears objective just so you can enforce it onto others is a waste of time and just makes you look stupid. But hey if that's your thing, you keep doing what you do while I spend that time improving my art instead.

[punkarsenic]

ooh heres an unpopular opinion! slapping macdonalds logos onto something doesnt make it edgy or good art

[VibrantFox]

not too sure if it counts as unpopular but i'm not a big fan of some animation memes. i can understand simple easy to mimic animations but at the same time repeating the same two poses with only the slightest bit of actual animation (movement/expression) seems kind of dull an repetitive. And I'm not saying all of em are bad just that some feel too simple and i'm hoping that people who start with the basic ones eventually branch out into more challenging animations/animatics

i also think that cringe culture sucks

[Kura]

Same face syndrome is over diagnosed

Yes there is some really bad examples of it, but then there are 'examples' that are not really examples... because there are differences in the face structure even though they can sometimes be small. A lot of the times it will REALLY come off as racist cause it's usually Asian series that are targeted (remember that thing where people will claim that all Asians look the same??)

Whats worse is the fact that projects made by a single artist seem to be directly harassed by this narrative more than big companies that can afford a variety of character models are.

[LordVincent]

i also think that cringe culture sucks

Agree with this so much. It's just glorified bullying.

Same face syndrome is over diagnosed

Yes there is some really bad examples of it, but then there are 'examples' that are not really examples... because there are differences in the face structure even though they can sometimes be small. A lot of the times it will REALLY come off as racist cause it's usually Asian series that are targeted (remember that thing where people will claim that all Asians look the same??)

ALL OF THE THIS
I have been in discussions with people who talk about same face syndrome and I'll agree it's a genuine thing that happens... until they pull up an example of what they think is sameface. (Which, btw, I have never spoken to anyone about this topic where they didn't pull an example that was anime style. This is despite the fact that I've seen at least as many examples of sameface in western and european styles. They're just blind to those for some reason)
And then the example is like.... not sameface. At all. They have different eyes, different eyebrows, some of them have different face lengths or shapes or different hairlines... But it's "sameface" because the noses are the same and the artist has a preferred face curve. Like, the fuck?? I think some people just confuse sameface for a consistent style sense.

I've even pointed it out to these people straightforward. Like "this is different, that is different, and that is different". And they're just like "no it isn't!". No arguments made. No nothing. Like talking to a child, just saying "No ur wrong!" apparently makes a valid counterargument.

[RaptagonStudios]

Piracy can effect indie content creators much more than it effects the big studios. However, the key to defeating it is providing a better service than the pirates. And unfortunately for Indies, they often don't have the resources to do so.

Are pirates not giving you any credit? Advertise everywhere. Get the word out about your comic and where people can find the official version.

Now this doesn't have to cost money. Find news outlets that have featured comics similar to yours and offer them something upfront.

Journalists appreciate when you do research for them or find some way to lower their workload and will typically give you exposure in exchange. Just don't put your links in the first email. Offer them something of value first.

Another way to provide a better service is to have frequent updates and other additional services tied to your work. Sell merchandise, have live podcasts where you talk to your fans while working on your projects, reply to your favorite comments, etc. People want to join a community and typically are more willing to pay to do so.

The caveat here is that it's going to be tougher for a small indie artist or company to provide better services than pirates, but it is possible.

[RaptagonStudios]

I would say that our unpopular opinion is that it's okay to steal from others. Now hear me out.

"Good Designers Copy, Great Designers Steal." Picasso

Now Im not actually advocating that you strait up plagerize. So long as you change and mix around ideas from different sorces, the truth is, it's not stealing.

There are no original ideas except by combining old ideas into something new and original.

By building upon the foundation of other stronger creators you can improve much faster. For instance, an artist will improve faster if they learn to "steal" the techniques of master artists.

After you can create what they create, it is then that you can develop your own style and be a truly great artist. But if you try to develop your own style before you master the principles and techniques of great design, you will most likely remain mediocre for a long time. You will be stuck in a state of failure.

There are a lot of artists out there that we have met who are unwilling to change their style for collaboration projects. And honestly we think it's hurting them more than anyone else. It's important to be able to learn different ways of doing things. It won't harm your uniqueness. It will only improve you and make your stronger.

We believe collaboration and the mixing of ideas, styles, etc improves everyone.

[Zpreader]

I did save an article about these Japanese techniques by Colleen Doran somewhere. She was with a group of artists in Japan for a cultural exchange back in the 90s. She goes in detail about "secrets" about manga making. If you want, I can share that.

Cool! I'd appreciate that

[bakasama25]

Here you go:
https://www.pastebin.ca/3846302

I know some of this will be useful making your work go a little faster.

[punkarsenic]

the key to defeating it is providing a better service than the pirates. And unfortunately for Indies, they often don't have the resources to do so.

i dunno. granted resources are tight, but i notice that indie creators in all fields put out way more free stuff than big studios, and the culture around indie creators is different. often, successful indie creators have a cult following - im thinking... flatsound, any youtuber or podcast, and iron circus to name one in music, in a/v media, and in comics. fans have affection for creators and respect for their work, and that work is distributed through things like gofundme and Patreon.

i think the real key to defeating piracy is changing the way we distribute media, and nobody is more innovative in that than indie creators.