Audience growth with a long-form fantasy adventure. Not a joke-a-day or romance

TheBlankScroll 2019-10-02 16:25:23 UTC #1

I'm looking for fellow long-form fantasy creators in this group.

I know we have an uphill battle steeper than the already VERY steep webcomic hill. Our stuff tends to not be very meme worthy, often the jokes require context, and the stories take time to read. None of this lends well to going viral.

Who here is doing this?

Do you feel like it's working for you?

My comic, The Blank Scroll has been a huge boost to my artistic and story telling growth, and for that I plan to stick with it indefinitely. But it's a little demoralizing when my readership grows so slowly. I don't REALLY care about monetizing, this is my hobby, but I do wish more people were seeing it.

So yeah. If you're a long-form story, post a link and tell me your story and how you feel about your place in the world.
If you follow a long-form story that you feel is killing it, please also post a link to that.
If you WANT to follow a long-form story but find they don't work for you, please bring that up.

I'd love to hear all your thoughts.

Here is mine:

Here's a few that I think are doing a fantastic job:
Monster Pop

Detached:

Cheshire Crossing (omg so good):

nathanKmcwilliams 2019-10-02 17:05:35 UTC #2

I've been working on my fantasy action adventure series for a year now, and my plans are to keep it going for as long as I can.

It's definitely frustrating with how slow the reader base grows. My biggest issue though, is the lack of engagement, not on my Tapas page, but on the Facebook page. I get almost zero likes, comments, shares, etc. (I almost wonder if it's buried in the algorithm and no one ever sees it.)

Since it's a hobby and for fun mostly, I don't want to spend a lot of time marketing and hustling it. Because that sucks the joy right out of making it.

rmdooley 2019-10-02 17:53:06 UTC #3

Great thread idea! Thanks for starting this up

I'm creating a long form contemporary fantasy and it is slow going. Five chapters in and it is STILL early on the story but enough has happened that previous events influence the current but with only one page a week updates getting the pacing right is tricky. As is building an audience with a longer story

And another fantasy comic I enjoy reading is:

Check it out! It's a good one

GusC 2019-10-02 17:57:00 UTC #4

I've been working on The Concord Initiative for a little over a year, now.

Uphill battle steeper than the already very steep webcomic hill
This is probably true, although I would suggest that this just a redundant symptom of the "long-form" method.

Not very meme-worthy
That is out of your control, unfortunately. Memes come with relevance.

Jokes require context
That is in your control. Comedy doesn't necessarily need context. In fact, I might go as far as to say that the point of comedy is that it transcends context.

Stories take time to read
This is the problem. Comics are already a medium with a very dramatic ratio of time spent making to time spend consuming. I spent about two months on one action scene that takes a reader 5 minutes to read. Add to that the fact that you are posting sporadically, leaving the reader on an IV drip of story. You will not be able to overcome this innate issue without being exceptionally good. More relevant to us, the idea should be to extend your timeline. Your long form story is long-form; it won't be finished for a long time--mine won't be finished for several years. You have to acknowledge that choosing a long-form story in a saturated genre is a very slow process. Your work is precious to you, but not at all special to the rest of the world.

That said, this provides an opportunity. The vast VAST majority of long-form stories splutter and die for all kinds of reasons--but they all tend to die because their creators could not or did not want to keep up. It's a marathon. Exhaustion is guaranteed. You either give up or you push through. Giving up isn't a bad thing, by the way--not if you're hinging all your hopes on your work. Since most long-form stories die, there IS a small market of finished, polished long-form comics, ESPECIALLY fantasy. You already are in a mindset of perseverance, which is great. But I'm troubled by your resignation on not putting yourself out there. People can't be interested if they don't know it exists. You either want an audience or you do not.

tl;dr
Long-form stories require a long-term mindset. It WILL be slow going. Stick with it, make improving your mission in life, and plan for the long game. If you're not putting your work out there to be seen by the most possible people, then I question your desire for an audience. They won't just happen to find your comic in the hundreds or thousands.

Also, in the interest of being thorough, there is NO SUBSTITUTE for good art/writing/consistency. No shortcuts around the fundamentals of an interesting comic. Self improvement is not an option, it is NECESSARY.

As for myself, I know I can't compete with the big fantasy comics with sheer artistic technical skill--yet--so I'm making consistency, lots of content, and dialogue my calling cards. The story is long, but I post a TON of content compared to other comics of any genre. For Inktober, I'm posting lore nuggets every day based on the prompt list.

rajillustration 2019-10-02 18:36:50 UTC #5

Ah interesting topic. For me it is difficult to create knowing that it will be a slow build for readership, but at the same time it is nice to take some pressure off of my back because then I can just focus on getting this story finished, youknow? I'm making this comic because I wanted to read something like this comic, and so even if it doesn't gain a huge readership, I'm proud of it because I've learned a lot while doing it. Not just about how to do a comic, but also about how the marketing side of webcomics work in 2019.

I'm not planning for it to be a source of income but it does look nice and attractive in my portfolio, which does help me a lot. And while I think it's good, I don't think it'll be my magnum opus, but it has been a large step in my understanding of how to panel and layout and things like that. I think of it a lot like people think of an art challenge like nanowrimo or inktober--it's purely a project I'm doing for my own growth.

Like I used to do long distance swimming back in school, so I feel like I was trained, in a way, to go slow and steady and not compare my pace to other people because what matters most to me with this particular project is to get to the end and finish a very long and complicated fantasy story in comic form, so I've edited a LOT (it very rarely has color) and did a lot of streamlining to my comic process so I can make a buffer and get this thing out there. And now that I'm almost at 100 pages, I'm pretty proud of that.

I really wish that Tapas would make a way for me to see where my readers come from--if they come from my links in social media, or from other websites, or if they come from within Tapas, but until then I just have to focus on building my marketing and hoping at least one of those things is what brings people to it.

But, what I do like about marketing this comic is that I get to really dig into what makes my characters tick--I get to figure out things about them I couldn't do when it was just a book I wrote. What do they wear? What do they do when they're hanging out. Doing promo art for social media has actually helped expand the worldbuilding more than making the actual comic.

Iris-Grimoire 2019-10-02 19:43:18 UTC #6

I wish there were in-depth analytics like rajillustration said, too, but it'd probably be Premium only. There are weeks where I push as hard as I can to promote the comic and the return is very little, sometimes I just make a simple posts and it breaks 50 views. And, of course, the problem that it's at only halfway through two digits on the good days. There are bad weeks and in this one the impostor syndrome is hitting particularly hard, but hey, it always gets better. The comments and encouragement from the regulars helps a lot too <3

Here's my comic below either way. I'm mostly doing this to build a portfolio and keep myself with a discipline to always work to improve something, because I felt like outside of art classes I was getting too comfortable with my art and had nothing to really do with it. If I have to stop because of IRL, so be it, though I wish it gets somewhere because this story has been with me for a long while!

gempompadour 2019-10-02 22:00:27 UTC #7

I feel you, I truly feel you. I'm creating an epic fantasy story and have all the major plot points outlined and have just started working on the long beginning arc. I've written it carefully, slowly introducing the world and having characters and events happen that will have major roles in the future. But it takes so looong. My main character is supposed to enter a school where the main plot and inciting event occur, but it will take maybe six months before I get there. I've already skipped on funny dialogue and touching moments because it would seriously drag the story.

This is also my first real comic and now apparently also my life's work and magnum opus. I don't mind working on it, because I really like the world and can tell many stories in it. But yeah, I worry that people will lose interest because this ride will be a long one. It'll be like Tolkien not finishing his work and forcing his children to continue his legacy. I'll be 100 years old, talking to my non-existing grandchildren how they must continue my work.

"Little Timmy and Mary, I've finished the first three chapters and Faustine has just arrived at school. It only took me 50 years! Now, I've written in my will that-"

"Money, you gonna leave us any money?"

"What!? Timmy, I'm a millenial. I have no money! Why do you think I'm dying behind a McDonalds? My children, I'm leaving you something much more valuable. My precious books filled with lore, character bibles and intricate maps I've made. They are all yours."

The end. And the promo, my comic over at Webtoon.

Rhonder 2019-10-02 22:27:16 UTC #8

My comic sits in an awkward place where it's like... neither short-form but it's also not particularly long-form... medium form? It's set up in the same style as a long-form fantasy/action, but in actuality it's more like a series of episodic one-shots strung together. My primary goal with this comic is just to train my skills to a point where I have the speed and quality to tackle an actual long-form comic where it won't take too terribly long to complete lol.

The benefit of this is that I'll theoretically be able to stop after any given arc/one-shot when I feel ready to start my other story without leaving a big longer story unfinished (and also give me the freedom to come back and write more one-shots in this world at my leisure).

The downside is that it suffers the same types of readership issues that long-form comics face lol I'm actually pretty satisfied with the size of my readership so far, but growth has been slow for sure xD I was on fire with like 8 new subs in July, but last month, for example, I went +1 / -1 for a net 0. A few months ago I was boldly predicting that I might hit the 100 mark by the 1st Anniversary (next week, the 7th!) but alas, still chilling at 83 xD (and 57 on webtoons). Promoting on social media (as well as showing WIPs and such) has been effective in gaining traction on those platforms, but do virtually nothing for gaining readership on Tapas/Webtoons. And I gave up promoting on Reddit because it just doesn't seem productive for this style of comic (at least on the general comic subs, haven't found a more specialized one yet that would fit my comic lol).

My solution? I just don't stress it and try to keep it fun. The improvement to my art since starting a year ago has already been worth the price of entry, and i'm oh so so close to wrapping up the first arc at or around page 70 which is awesome! The longest work I've completed before was 10 pages xD

ryoko 2019-10-02 22:47:42 UTC #9

I've been posting my comic on Tapas since 2015 and Webtoons since 2017 and have almost 800 pages. I find that I have a bigger audience on Webtoons and average around 40,000 view per month (2200 subs) there and on Tapas around 25-30,000 (650 subs). Long form comics like ours tend to have slower growth because the story takes a much longer time to develop. Fantasy/adventure tends to not be the top pick for many readers, either, so that can hamper audience growth.

For being seen, I don't really do much to promote my comic, but I do update three days a week and am part of a collaborative project on Webtoons. Because I update so frequently I think a lot of people end up reading my comic just because they know it's there and it's something to read I think consistent updates make a big difference in getting people to stick with your comic. Engagement with your audience through the comment section might be something for you to consider, too.

As mentioned above, a lot of long form comics disappear over time as artists' lives change and they no longer have time to do their story. If you're committed to producing a long form comic, then you have to stick to a schedule and ultimately know where your story is going and how you're planning on getting there.

Link to my comic: The Cat, the Vine and the Victory

One of the longest and successful comics on Tapas that fits into this category would be The Pirate Balthasar clocking in at over 1300 episodes.

Kura 2019-10-02 23:19:24 UTC #10

I have a decent-ish amount of subs though a lot are dead, you REALLY get a lot of dead subs for this kind of story because of how slowly the storytelling will become for readers once they catch up.

Though this amount of readers is kinda... small in comparison to other comics since this one has been on this site since 2014 and is at 1785 pages. (as of this morning until I update later today) and comments are more on the scarce side unless it's a page dealing with the romance sub-plot, which can get REALLY active compared to every single other page.

In general though I've accepted and always accepted that my numbers will not be all that great and very slow to grow on this website (I'm actually shocked that they have managed to climb as high as they have). My comic is just not a good fit for this website, which really contributes to my slow growth in numbers. It's page format instead of scrolling because this was originally a comic hosted on mangamagazine where chapters were released in pages. I did not want and still do not want to change the reading format in the middle of what is already a significant amount of content. It's also black and white (with the acceptation of a few pages) because my health is not well enough for me to invest the time into colouring, though this was fine on a site like mangamagazine were black and white comics were very commonplace, readers on tapastic and webtoons don't care for black and white comics as much as they do colour. Add the number of pages and you get another hurdle, as for webcomics the longer a series is the harder it is to get more readers because the episode/page counts gets 'overwhelming' Then of course all the dead subs and my readers not engaging in comments much (unless it's a page on the romantic sub plot) it's gets increasingly more difficult to be seen or relevant on this website.

The best I can tell you is to try and not focus on the numbers, just tell the story that you want to tell. If you're in this game for the number then you need to accept that this is not what the readers want and then move on to what they do want. If you really want to tell this story then you are generally going to have to accept and work with the slow growth stories like this get on websites and social media.

malverav 2019-10-03 00:29:49 UTC #11

I feel this. I've been working since April and I feel like I'm slowly getting somewhere, but this comic's been the best possible thing for my artistic growth. The difference between the start of the comic and the end is stark, so even though I've got a small audience I'm grateful I'm making it.

TeddyLemon 2019-10-03 04:38:30 UTC #12

My comic is definitely still in its early stages, I’ve uploaded until a part of episode 3 so not much has yet happened. Its’ genre is fantasy/adventure/action/romance, theres going to be lots of arcs and probably more than a hundred episodes in the future. I hope I’ll be able to finish since its my first comic. It’s also quite the challenge and training for me, we’ll see.

monotone_ink 2019-10-03 04:58:29 UTC #13

The grind is long and without mercy.

My biggest fear regarding long-term comics is finally completing the whole story, looking back on it, and thinking: "Well damn, that was a waste of time."

Related to this fear would be the comic not catching on very well. I'm afraid that the audience of the webcomic I'm making is already kind of niche, in a medium that is already in itself quite niche.

However, if I stopped here, I think I would regret it even more. I'd rather just keep going with it.

In terms of getting people to see it, I have no idea how to go about doing it effectively without looking obnoxious.
I'm planning to make an animatic trailer to promote the webcomic, but that in itself is already a challenge. Life will find a way.

monotone_ink 2019-10-03 05:02:47 UTC #14

Ayy, I've seen this around.

I've gotta be honest, for someone who's just starting out, you're doing magnificently well. Ride that wave and don't let that inertia die.

yondoloki 2019-10-03 07:25:26 UTC #15

The past four years I've chipped away on a "smaller" project, my fantasy, psychological horror story The Changeling's Sister.

I think the trick is to find where the readers are, and go there for long-forms. We just have to be more vocal and visible about our stories, which means more work unfortunately I don't think there's an easy fix.

On the upside I feel that the readers de DO get are a lot more loyal than on gag-a-days

lorphis 2019-10-03 07:33:24 UTC #16

Oof, yes. I can relate to that. Spending so much time on a project and no one cares is just... Uuugh.

TeddyLemon 2019-10-03 07:35:25 UTC #17

nani. really.. o.o

thank you...but tbh its not really my "starting out", it may be my first comic but its a new, redrawn version

darthmongoose 2019-10-03 08:10:01 UTC #18

As @yondoloki said, the key benefit of working on long form storytelling is the reader loyalty. It's the payoff for all the hard work you'll have to put into designing and drawing all those unique props, characters and locations, setting up character and story arcs, wading through exposition, choreographing fight scenes etc. In the end, it's worth it to me.

And the thing that's great if you're doing Fantasy with loyal readers is definitely that the generally pretty distinctive character designs lend themselves to fan art. The comic I'm drawing now is pretty new:

But it's sort of a reboot of an older comic I did years ago, which had a small, but really dedicated base of readers, resulting in... FAN ART. Glorious Fan Art!

A big thing that spurred me on to reboot was a pro artist friend drew the main character last November just on a whim... like years after the comic had gone on hiatus, he randomly did this:

And I thought.... "These characters mean something to people. Even now." I was an idiot in my twenties to not realise how rare and valuable that is.

So yeah, long form fantasy... it's a slog, but it's so worth it.

GabiWolf 2019-10-03 11:21:07 UTC #19

I do feel that I have an uphill battle. Even though my comic in not high fantasy it is a Fantasy, and needs a lot of set up. I think people have a hard time waiting for the action, but I have to set things up. It’s very story driven so it might seem like nothing is happening but it is. It’s really hard to hook people when there is a lot of exposition, that along with my struggles of juggling time probably doesn’t help in building my readership.
I am actually taking the time currently to think about how I want to manage my comic in the long run. So there will be some changes in how I color, and I worry that will have an impact and slow my already slow trek down. But I am optimistic and am even thinking of another fantasy story I would like to write. I just love fantasy and I would create nothing else!

Chita 2019-10-03 11:35:49 UTC #20

I relate so much to this. I'm on my way of making a long term fantasy comic (not super epic high fantasy to be honest) and I'm struggling a lot on the "pacing" of some sort. Like not the actual comic pacing but the overall feeling of the comic itself. I've grown so used to chill "short" fantasy comics in here so when I compare them to mine as plot development in X pages I always feel like I'm going sooo slow and I'm afraid that might put potential readers off... I don't know. Also having it done in a traditional page format doesn't help as well .
Either way I'm happy with the supporting base I have right now, they all are amazing, but it takes so long to make it grow.