Catharsis vs. Escapism and Censorship in Webcomics

[Hodge]

Hey I love edgy angsty stories! And idgaf what twitter has to say about it. People say all sorts of things but art and comics that are darker often do really well. Like this one twitter account https://twitter.com/avogado6?s=09 is just depression all day every day and people love it. It's sincere and feels real.

Sometimes people just feel ashamed about it. And since these sorts of emotion are really intense, it can be kinda jarring, especially if the presentation is a bit clumsy. But for those who need it, it's incredibly refreshing. Personally, these are the kind of stories which inspire me the most.

There's only so much isekai I can read before it just gets sad lol.

[DiegoPalacios]

As a reader and creator, what are you thoughts on cathartic stories vs. escapist stories?

Everyone can have their tastes and preferences, but forcing said preferences on other creators is selfish and controlling.

Both types of stories can be good if well excecuted, but chances are that a creator will do better if they aim for what they like.

Do you feel heavy topics shouldn't be explored when oppressed groups are involved, or at all?

Forbidding this is called censoring, and i am against that. Some topics may not be appropiate for all ages, but that is why we have age ratings.

What do you think escapist stories can bring to the table that cathartic stories can't, and vise versa?

A space to relax and clear the mind, which is often neccesary in this modern pseudoapocaliptic world. Not every story needs to be heavy drama. Sometimes people just wants to have a good laugh of enjoy something wholesome.

Do you feel heavy stories do more damage than good overall?

Depends of the excecution.....heavy stories can make you question things, can make people think, but if the themes are just there for shock value.....the story may not be as deep as it claims to be.

Have you yourself noticed more of a push for positive content? And if so, why do you think that is?

Maybe there is a trend towards escapism because these last couple of years have been more stressing for humanity as a whole. A raise in escapism may be a coping mechanism for human kind as a whole......

[joannekwan]

I definitely think there's a place for escapist and cathartic stories and both are valid!

I don't like policing what other people create. If it's not for me, I'm just gonna be on my way. I don't think any topic should be prohibited, so long as the execution doesn't lead to any negative consequences in the real world.
Heavy stories are definitely needed. Particularly as teaching tools. I'm sure Maus had an impact on lots of kids (and older folks). Narrative stories can do way more to move an audience than statistics and dry facts from a text book.

Escapism is nice, not only to sweep a reader or creator away from their personal reality, but they can impart hope as well. Whereas for cathartic stories, sometimes it's nice for a reader to see a character go through the same tribulations as themselves. They feel less alone. And it can be helpful for the creator to work out their problems on digital paper.

I don't think heavy stories in general do any damage, unless it's inciting violence or promoting unhealthy practices.

I haven't noticed a push on my personal social media feeds, as I don't follow too many people. But a couple people I do follow talk about how they've been (At)ted and I glean from the stances they post that they do get flak for their content.
It's awful, especially as a creator that kind of approaches content the over-reactors would deem taboo as well, I'm sort of readying myself for any punches.

[skicoak]

As a reader and creator, what are you thoughts on cathartic stories vs. escapist stories?

I guess I question the identification of the genre/stories as "Cathartic". It seems that more describes the process of the creator than what a story can evoke in the reader.

Not against that type of storytelling at all...I dig things that make "feel" not just read along.

Maybe the wording creates part of the debate.

Do you feel heavy topics shouldn't be explored when oppressed groups are involved, or at all?

Call me a contrarian... but telling ANY creator what SHOULDN'T be explored is garbage. You can critique the skill/attempt to tell the tale but don't attack the right to do so.

(Skipping the next two questions, too hypothetical for me to really evaluate effects outside my personal perspective )

Have you yourself noticed more of a push for positive content? And if so, why do you think that is?

Yeah, it's definitely a trend.
I guess I don't trust it overall because it seems from my perspective to be about maintaining status quos or glossing over problems.

[Macarenaoftime]

I felt this on a spiritual level.

My comic was basically a metaphor about the relationship I had with my ex-girlfriend. However I was worried to label it as LGBT+, or GL, or romantic as the relationship portrayed is not exactly a healthy one. I didn't want to be accused of representing in a bad light a certain marginalized sector.

I simply classified it as a horror story and as a drama.

Nowadays I don't even know what to label myself either.

[Inspector_Spinda]

All I know is this. Dragon Age Origins does oppression well. The context behind the oppression is not based on any real world groups. If you list all the major groups that are frequent targets of oppression in the real world, the elves and mages in that universe are not a mirror of any one of them on their own. Instead, they take oppression as a concept and apply it to the world as a part of it. This makes the stories unique, but also relatable no matter what side of the oppression you're on in real life, and also doesn't make it seem "in your face" for those who don't want to deal with real life things in a game.

There is one scene in the city elf origin that deals with the importance of representation in media for minority groups and it made me cry a bit despite being a person who is pretty neutral towards that kind of thing in real life.

[amortelito]

I'm a person who believes in letting others express themselves and if I don't like it...it's okay...I can get over it and move on. As long as they are not literally harassing or creating hate speech ( because that's a crime) I think they should be left alone.

I'm never under the impression that artists are making "manuals of the ideal behaviour". They can depicted imperfect people and bad actions. We are supposed to have our own criteria and morals. Parents have the obligation of educating, protecting and empowering their kids and not rely on strangers to do so.

Police mob usually use bullying and intimidation but they are treated like heroes because they hide behind a social justice cause. I don't know when "tolerance" became a bad word. You are now "complicit", "homophobe", etc. If you remain neutral.

I think is amazing if someone authors want to use their content to educate or change people's perspectives, that doesn't give anyone the moral high ground to bully others for the way they express themselves.

[GumshoeComix]

Yes same I write very similar stories that I too would consider labeling as cathartic but I've had people look at the synopsis and immediately assume the worst when ch1 isn't even done posting. ;~;

I was honestly contemplating on taking my story off of tapas and moving it elsewhere because of the number of minors on this site that might complain too, like you mentioned they've been invading adult spaces a lot recently.
Just the other day I saw a bunch of kids trying to tell a mangaka they can't be writing a psychological horror story because they also wrote a BL story.

My story involves heavy themes involving LGBT people toward the end of the story
a lot of which is because people (mostly straight people no offense ilu ) arent aware conversion therapy is still very real. I think it's fine to make dramas involving LGBT

I feel that heavy topics should honestly be explored in stories more often, in a more serious way. It's a conversation starter that will get people to realize that shit needs to change. but having those conversations in a kid-friendly sugar-coated way does nothing.
Saying "be nice to the gays" will just make peoples eyes roll
Showing what kinda shit they actually have to put up with to this day will maybe change some hearts.

The stuff I write is stuff I really REALLY care about, either stuff that's happened to me or others close to me.
It's cathartic cause I never really got to process it as a kid. but with this push for 80s styled wholesome content, i worry people with think I have malicious intent

[rajillustration]

I have absolutely noticed a trend of this, at least from my limited bubble online. But like, when I was younger and in school all the books we read were like--hella heavy, youknow? We read some pretty intense books on race, on different social issues that are pretty important. Now I see those same books as being called "edge" and it's like...so you just don't like literature then? Do you not understand how these books were pivitol at the time? Because I know for a fact everyone had to write papers on these books.

And with comics it's really hard to be taken seriously. People see it as a child's medium, especially in the US, where we just don't have accessibility to more mature comics except for the internet. Like I remember getting into heated discussions with my roomates at how a Graphic Novel is a book, and can absolutely tell a story that is more than just entertainment. But, people are kind of set in their ways, and if they think comics should only be for kids, then they're going to be very upset when people break those rules because...what if a kid reads it? (while forgetting that we force kids to read books about heavy racism and persecution from like age 7 onward)

During the 90's we had some pretty edge comics, and that was a trend that was different than heavier and more mature comics now. Like there's a difference between being edge because you're doing a counter-culture genre piece about gore or sex and doing something that is about a societal problem that you want to bring to light. When people think those are the same...that's a huge problem.

As for policing, I've found most of the policing over things like LGBT+ and racial issues are following the path of "good intentions pave the road to hell." Inevitably they will fall victim to the same thing they're trying to police. You can't really tell a good story that will stand the test of time without it having some depth. You can't really have depth or be taken seriously if your stories are just fluffy pieces all the time. You can't. Sure people can enjoy it, and for some people that's all they want to create. but nearly every author and artist wants to be taken seriously by the critical community at some point in their lives. We all have that one piece that is "edge" and we're probably pretty damn proud of it, even if it's not for kids.

[amortelito]

"Do you think that heavy stories for more harm than good overall? strong text"

"Have you seen a push for positive content?"

We can't say for sure that this or that story caused someone's issues because everyone's family life is different. But one thing is noticeable, depression is on the rise in younger generations. We have never been policed like this and there has never been such a push for positive content like in this time. People get pampered and protected but the issues are increasing instead of decreasing.

I'm not saying that bloody emo edge lords comics were "healthier" I'm saying that people are not happier just because you push that happiness upon them. In fact I think this lack of an outlet to explore darkness can do more harm than good. Art is a healing process and if you start shaming people for expressing themselves we only get fake happy faces.

[GumshoeComix]

people are not happier just because you push that happiness upon them

you're god damn right!

[rajillustration]

In fact I think this lack of an outlet to explore darkness can do more harm than good. Art is a healing process and if you start shaming people for expressing themselves we only get fake happy faces.

I had a music professor who used to say that one of the assumptions he hated most was the idea that people who listen to angry metal are made angry because of the music and will suddenly commit crimes once "the devil's music" is on. Because the truth is, that people who are angry may listen to angry metal, but it's because they were angry already--the art form didn't cause it, and it absolutely doesn't cause people to do criminal things.

We historically blame art forms more than the actual reasons people are going through a difficult time because that's easier to do.

[joannekwan]

Yup, same thing with violent video games! Even though no study has shown any correlation between those games and an increase in violent tendencies after playing.

[SleepingPoppy]

People are weird...

Given that I follow your comic, I'm fine with heavy topics and themes!

Like peanut butter and jelly, I quite like a bit of both catharsis and escapism in what I consume. Over all I'd say I prefer stories that are eventually going to have a happy ending, but I would never dream of saying that means other creators should only make happy endings.

My current story is pretty fluffy, but my next project isn't, so I'll see what happens when I start exploring darker topics. XD

We need stories where you can put your troubles down and experience something new, different, and valuable. We also need stories where we don't pretend bad shit doesn't exist. We need to generate empathy, inspire, fight, etc etc etc. Creatots also need room to be allowed to explore difficult topics, particularly those who might be working out/transforming their own experience.

Do you feel heavy stories do more damage than good overall?

I don't believe there's anything inherently harmful in talking about a heavy topic. I think the best approach is continually having conversations like this! Conversations about how to depict complex topics, what qualifies as exploitation, etc etc etc!

[PaulDevers]

Do you feel heavy stories do more damage than good overall?

I personally don't think so? I personally have a good love for heavy stories and themes. Sure, there are definitely places where I'm looking for something light and happy; I think everyone does at some point! But I feel like if everything is trying to be that, then it all will just kind blend together into one big mess of generically happy empty content. Like eating nothing but cotton candy for a week.
Heavy stories are heavy, yes, and may not be the best to read if your in a bad mood. But they can explore themes that are easier for us to read about then experience ourselves. I don't really see how that can be much bad myself. I'd rather read a comic about loss and isolation than experience those myself.

Have you yourself noticed more of a push for positive content? And if so, why do you think that is?

I feel like there's been a big push recently for main characters to be less 'problematic' if that sounds right. Which I can see both why that is and why I don't like it. XD On one hand I can see why, as people wanna read about good guy characters so that they can project and in turn get the happy reflected back at them. But on the other hand, there's no conflict again if everyone's just a generically nice blob of protagonist. Characters need to be conflicted, make decisions the reader may not agree with, or in general be controlled by emotions that you may not enjoy. Because that's what makes them engaging.
Basically tl:dr, people want positive content because they want to be happy, and may not have the emotional willpower to suffer through a more tumultuous narrative. And honestly, what with all the world events, I can't rightly blame them.

[jkb4753]

Therapist here.
Let's talk about attachment.
Attachment is the connection between a child and caregiver, its the term for that early childhood relationship. Anytime this relationship is damaged, it's called an attachment wound. Examples are neglect, separation, and child abuse.

So attachment repair is a therapeutic thing. It happens in therapy, usually. It's when the therapist and the client process the attachment wound, usually through EMDR or some kind of trauma modality.

But attachment repair also happens in fiction. I see it in fanfiction a lot. Instead of processing their own emotional trauma, authors use the characters as a proxy. The author writes the character with all their same attachment wounds, and drops them in a story.

The attachment repair usually looks like the author giving the proxy character a therapeutic relationship, almost always a love interest. The love interest challenges all the character's maladaptive self-talk. Together the character becomes confident enough to process their attachment wounds.

If you look at it from an attachment framework, it's healthy for authors to write stories in which characters suffer attachment wounds. Thats just the authors working through their own shit. It's healthy, and normal. V therapeutic. However, that looks like putting a character through a lot of hardship. If the character is a member of a minority group, this can look like persecution. Eyes on the prize fam, we're focusing on that character's relationships, and validating their trauma. THey have to go through some dark stuff for that to happen.

Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[DiegoPalacios]

Is easier to pick on a bunch of "nerds" than dealing with the real dangerous people.......

Some people are just trying to play savior on the public eye, and are willing to go to any lenght to look good, even if it means harming others......

[SleepingPoppy]

Yup, same thing with violent video games! Even though no study has shown any correlation between those games and an increase in violent tendencies after playing.

Is easier to pick on a bunch of "nerds" than dealing with the real dangerous people.....

And they always ignore most of these games are rated for adults! Like, gee, maybe don't buy your 12 year old the M rated shooter that requires an adult to even purchase?? Obviously not the real problem since it's just a scape goat, but it's funny how the people complaining don't talk about the ratings or take any responsibility.

[Kaydreamer]

The people taking it upon themselves to be the 'fiction police' of the online sphere today are just as bad as the mothers decrying 'satanic' media in the 80's. It was stupid then, and it's stupid now.

There are many good reasons to explore 'problematic' themes in a story. If you don't like that as a reader, that story is just not for you, and you should go read something fluffier - not drag the author through some 'trial by social media' because in your subjective opinion the story is bad.

Ugh, this is one of those issues which really grinds my gears.

I've been called queerphobic, a fetishist, pro-abuse, a pedophile (Because one of my MCs is short, therefore child-coded.)

Being called a paedophile because one of your adult characters is short, and somehow 'child-coded'? GOOD. GRIEF. That's SO dumb. Is my partner a paedophile because I'm short, and due to ADHD tend to exhibit more child-like behaviours than the average adult? NO. He's not. I'm a grown-ass woman with neurodiverse quirks existing in the real world. If I exist, characters like me are allowed to exist.

Besides that, the standards for what's considered 'unproblematic' are constantly changing. In five years time, maybe all the kids will be dragging on happy, fluffy LGBT+ escapism as 'problematic' because "It's pretending that discrimination against LGBT+ people doesn't exist, therefore it's queerphobic." I can definitely see that argument becoming a weapon wielded against creators just doing their best to tell a good story.

My advice as an author is to just write the kind of stories you'd like to read, and if people decide that's somehow 'problematic' and you're terrible for writing it, a liberal application of the block button is in order. Hopefully, this is just a short-lived resurgence of 'satanic panic' style censorship and shaming which will simmer down in a decade, and be looked back on with derision in the decades to come.

[GumshoeComix]

No joke I was literally on the verge of leaving tapas before I saw this thread its not like I'm happy other people have to go through this shit but I'm glad there are others with some sense on this website. I think I'll stick here a little longer ;w;