Diversity in webcomics

[timinabox]

no
no
comics shold not /have to/ be realistic, I thought the whole point of comics is that they don't have to be realisitc

[radicles]

This has already been said a few times here, and honestly so far this thread has such good responses.
The real issue when it comes to these kind of comments: "too diverse" / "too gay"/ "too many girls" /"there's no likeable male characters"/ "did you make all of them ugly as some kinda sjw statement?" is that, from my experience, the privileged refuse to accept or relate to characters that aren't ONE MORE direct representation of them.

"too diverse" = i'm sorry white folks you have to take your blame here. Not everything has to have a bit turned torwards you guys, gee "too gay"= i was absolutely shocked to see that a very popular comic on Tapastic got flooded with lots of homophobic/transphobic comments recently that said 'wow LGBT here TOO? are you telling me NONE of your main characters are STRAIGHT? LGBT ARE A MINORITY. it's UNREALISTIC' but what they really meant (and said further on, when people started to argue with them) was they were tired of so many gay characters on webcomics. they simply 'couldn't take the story seriously.' because the lgbt characters 'seemed out of place and extra within the plot.' which, if any of you guys keep track of most pop culture media, aren't rare arguments. We see the same kinda thing said about shows, books, and specially videogames. To your average straight audience consuming pop culture, if a lgbt character isnt a 'gay token' character then obviously, they are out of place, have nothing to do with the history, or are unrealistic. And that Sucks.

taking word from Valerie halla, author of the queer comic goodbye to halos : If you have the ability of write a story, to create life and draw the world as your own, and portray it as you want, literally however you want: why not make it as gay as you want. why not make it as diverse as your heart desires too?

why when LGBT/POC (also applies to female creators) authors write stories about them and about their respective groups there is such a pressure to fill a quota? do you really NEED to fill a quota? my response: hah, no.

you don't need to add straight characters to make the public 'feel better'. you don't need to count how many POCs you already have in your story and add white characters to 'appeal to the public'. and you absolutely don't need to add male leads if your comic is talking about women. You don't need to follow the standard beauty rules either, screw all of those. We are just starting to enter an era where minorities have the spotlight they deserved for centuries, and apparently that's a shocker for some people. I grew up with people telling me to stop reimagining popular characters as queers or as blacks, because i was invading their space and if i wanted such things in media, then i should go out and make my own. (non surprisingly, i still see people saying this online.) But when we go out and make our own, there's always a scream on the far back going 'Whats all this DIVERSE SHIT ON MY MEDIA?' and for those people, well, i aint even sorry.

[trinkettrancemusic]

I think it should be entirely story dependant. Certain settings (temporally, especially) do not make any sense to have diverse casting in. I think what's more sorely needed is diverse voices telling stories, which will inherently lead to more diverse default experience bases and perspectives. But if ethnicity doesn't matter to the story and you don't think to represent more than those nearest in appearance to yourself, you should probably lick a frog or chew on an ego loss agent of some sort.

[NickRowler]

I think there is nothing work with adding diversity to a comic.

However, I do sort of have this issue with the whole white washed Japanese characters which white westerners will sometimes create. From time to time, you will see American mangakas create these anglo saxon looking characters then give them Japanese names and say they are Japanese. I know it comes from being inspired by Japanese anime and Japan does whatever Japan wants to do. But when a white artist does it, it's weird and it feels like the artist is just half assing it when it comes to having diverse characters.

[shaylafarley5]

Never heard anything like this before. I thought diversity was a great thing, I've even been complemented on having alot of diverse characters. After all everyone deserve some love

[indagold]

Unpopular opinion but as someone who isn't straight I find it realllyy distracting when every single character is not straight and needs to addressed a lot. As an example I know someone whose characters are all trans/intersex and non-hetero, every single one of them, hundreds of them and it's really jarring, like to the point it feels like they're picking out exotic toppings for icecream than making actual characters.

I put lgbt characters in my comics but they don't make up the entire cast and their orientation does not take center stage. Maybe it's just me but I find that really annoying.

[lunaartemisasama]

I don't think it is unrealisitc that lot of cultures live in a big city O_O.
But also I think all it is good as long as they don't end being some cliche.
On the other hand I am hispanic and I don't feel offended when people represent us as drug dealers (and I loved "El Diablo" character in Suicide Squad movie, as cliche as it was lol, but he was the real hero!!), Of course if you only use hispanics to be the drug dealer and all the cops are white I would feel offended, what I am trying to say is that all is good as long as there's some balance.

[spooktacularprize]

I enjoy diversity in comics, and agree that if you need a character, there's [usually] no reason not to have characters that aren't cis/het/white. I had a lot of issues of self-worth and whatnot as a teen an young adult because I didn't see people like me in roles I related to, and that can really make someone feel bad about themselves.

I do worry about misrepresentation, as people have said, but I always think back to my personal experiences - and comments by non-white creators such as Jorge Gutierrez, who I distinctly remember mentioning in a (podcast?) that he had always been disappointed as a kid seeing that none of his favorite characters looked like him - something I can relate to in a different way as an LGBT individual. I don't think kids should have to go through that. (or anyone)

In my comic, I haven't added any characters just for diversity; although I've decided on non-white or LGBT+ characters in place of white or cis/het characters in both key and minor roles.

There is a tad more focus on LGBT+ content later on, because I have much more experience with that community. I HAVE been trying to throw hints, such as having the main trans character's son mention off-handedly that his father has complained about him leaving the toilet seat up previously - but I genuinely don't think anyone has notice yet - either that, or it's just so normal that no one feels the need to mention it (probably the former.)

The top left is the kind of "hints" I'm referring to - although it was in my tipping comic, something I'd rather it have not been - but I couldn't find a reasonable way of incorporating it. It should become obvious later, but I didn't really want it to be a big reveal or something totally shocking.

[jeffanime1]

I wouldn't let stuff like that bother you. If you want a diverse cast, do it! It's your story!

[joannekwan]

I agree with this.

I think another unrealistic point is when characters outrightly announce their orientation etc. upon introduction in their dialogue? I don't know anyone who does that.

[radicles]

LOLLL this is so tru oh god,,, tbh the only examples of this i found that rly pissed me off were from comics written by ppl with no sensitivity or experience whatsoever with nb/trans/ace/aro people like, they kept pushing more characters into the story so theyd have lots and lots of LGBT tokens while having NO IDEA how to write them. and it was a pretty popular but nonsensical comic so that left me with such a bad taste in my mouth

[radicles]

the deal here is that not every representation is good representation. if you dont know how to write a diverse cast, have no experience, or dont live with them/know any of them, dear god thread carefully. you can really, really mess stuff up.

[indagold]

But that's the problem, a lot of them are non straight/non cis who write this stuff. It makes it even more cringier because you'd think they would know better.

[R.n.P]

Oh yeah in my last reply over here I forgot to mention, in a company situation where you sell print outs of the comics, diversity wouldn't work, people like edgy stuff, things that catch their attentions once they see it, that's how marketing works, that's why most popular male superheroes are usually jacked individuals that look masculine n all cuz that's what attracts female readers(majority) n some male readers that want a cool looking protagonist, same thing when you look at scantily clad female characters, they are usually the most popular characters e.g wonderwoman so in a majority white country like America it's easier to sell to white audiences(which by the way make up the majority of the market) through a character(plus its more realistic seeing as statistically speaking you will be more likely to see more whites in that kinda environment) with the same skin color just like how in my home country it's easier to sell comics that have a majority of black characters. Also through marketing you follow the trends and right now everyone hates diversity(and I don't mean they hate it cuz of bigotry or something), they would rather not hear what is preached to them every single day in school and at home when they try to escape reality by reading comics n that's why successful stories are based more on concrete story telling that are not trying to preach to you but rather tell a story after all it's easier to drop a story than to keep up with it so as comics are goods n services, just like any other merchandise are meant to satisfy the readers and not to show diversity.

[ItsKkYo]

I have a lot of problems with this....

in a company situation where you sell print outs of the comics, diversity wouldn't work, people like edgy stuff, things that catch their attentions once they see it, that's how marketing works

First this simply isn't true when comics like Miss Marvel have a woman of color as a lead and do well. There's a whole new line of diverse comics that do well because people want to be represented. Traditionally comics have been aimed at white men which is why you may think 'diversity doesn't work', but that's just not the case.

hat's why most popular male superheroes are usually jacked individuals that look masculine n all cuz that's what attracts female readers(majority) n some male readers that want a cool looking protagonist, same thing when you look at scantily clad female characters,

Super muscular male characters are not aimed at women. Both hyper masculine males and scantily clad women are aimed at straight men, the male characters are a power fantasy.

so in a majority white country like America it's easier to sell to white audiences(which by the way make up the majority of the market) through a character(plus its more realistic seeing as statistically speaking you will be more likely to see more whites in that kinda environment) with the same skin color just like how in my home country it's easier to sell comics that have a majority of black characters.

America is a majority white country, but white people will still go see things that aren't about them. Look at the success of Hidden Figures, Moonlight, or Straight Outta Compton. Also skewing the market only at white people is actually a bad move because even if they have the majority of the money in the US, the companies are still missing out of profit from certain groups.

Also through marketing you follow the trends and right now everyone hates diversity(and I don't mean they hate it cuz of bigotry or something), they would rather not hear what is preached to them every single day in school and at home when they try to escape reality by reading comics n that's why successful stories are based more on concrete story telling that are not trying to preach to you but rather tell a story after all it's easier to drop a story than to keep up with it so as comics are goods n services, just like any other merchandise are meant to satisfy the readers and not to show diversity.

And this is the part that I have the most issue with. "Everyone hates diversity"? That isn't true. As I've pointed out movies not centered around whiteness do very well in the box office. Also who is this 'everyone'? Are you talking about a majority of white people because there are tons of people of color who don't hate diversity.

"They'd rather not hear what is preached to them every single day in school.." Once again I'm going to assume you're talking about white people when you say 'they'. But anyway here you're implying that diversity is inherently preachy, which it isn't. Also you're implying that schools and people at home actually do an effective job about talking about issues with minorities in this country which is laughable.

The thing is if by 'escape from reality' you mean escape from the fact that people of color, lgbt+, or other people who aren't the societal norm exist instead of escape to a cool fantasy world full of awesome adventure, that's bigoted. You talk here as if any addition of diversity automatically means there can't be good writing and I find that gross. Diversity doesn't hinder good writing.

[infectedbloodcomics]

Don't you think it's their right to have an entire fictional world with non - straight characters, especially since this real world is full of straight people?

[knightjj]

Hi there. I appreciate all the comments on this tread, both the ones I personally agree with and the ones I don't.
It got way more replies so far then I could've hoped for but please understand that this tread is for everyone to voice their opinions and discuss with each other in a respectful and open minded way. So please don't make it personal by pointing fingers and keep it civil. thank you

[scythe]

If diversity is just a synonym for realistic, then I'm all for it. It's realistic to have lots of different kinds of people, with lots of different points of view if you're setting your story in a modern western metropolis. At the same time, if you're setting your story in historical Poland, it's not realistic to have lots of different races here and there.

The problem is that too often diversity is just used as a synonym for not white, or not straight, or not male.

You'll get stories that are almost entirely not white, or gay, or all female and they'll be called "diverse". That's the opposite of diverse.

Or you'll hear the term, she's a "diverse" character. Ummm... how can a single individual be diverse?

This kind of 'diversity' is an ideology, and is far too often hamfisted into stories to the point where the writer is no longer telling an honest story, but just on a soapbox preaching their political views. I've read comics like that, where a character will just inexplicably start ranting about some social justice issue. That's not dialogue. That's an op ed. If you want to write social justice op eds, go for it. Just don't sell me a comic that's actually an op ed.

That's how this specific ideological definition of 'diversity' can ruin a story. And that's the kind of 'diversity' that's tanked Marvel's sales.

[NickRowler]

People here be fightin' over black lady Ironman and I am here like...that actually sounds sort of cool.

Tho, when I looked it up, she's not replacing Ironman, she is a completely different character called Ironheart and she's suppose to be a "Ironwoman" to Ironman...I guess. Don't these companies make AUs and side characters like this all the time? I guess I don't really give a rats ass about superhero comics to really feel too emotional about it...maybe that's why all these people who are having a heart attack and throwing tantrums about it just look like weirdos who spend too much time on the internet to me.

[R.n.P]

Yh its cool having a black ironwoman n all, but originally they planned to change Stark to the character but later changed their minds recently due to the backlash from the fan base n tbh I don't blame the fans, stark was a damn almost perfect character.Well if the fan base wants it they should get it but since they don't want it then the writer shouldn't or if they still decide to, have to implement it very well in order to get people to be interested in the story since there at least needs to be a market for them to sell to if not its rather pointless since a company is basically there to make profits n in the end if done poorly just leads to more people hating diversity even though from a normal standpoint is actually a good thing.