Do free webcomics hurt the industry?

[Darth_Biomech]

In a discussion on another site about wages and pay rates, I saw an exclamation that kinda stuck with me:

I hate people that underprice their services as much as anyone, but you know who's the worst? Those idiots content with doing things for free. This is downright evil, they are hurting the industry the worst, since they don't even ask for money, dumping the price to ZERO! Why would anybody buy your music if there's crapton of those "youtube musicians" living in their mommy's basement releasing their crap for free?!

I had a thought that on the surface level isn't the same can be said about all sorts of stuff? Why would you ever buy a comic book if there's so many completely free webcomics out there, that are often offer much better quality of content as well? and similarly, why would you pay for a webcomic for the same reason?
Doing things just because you enjoy them is obviously isn't wrong or bad, but I still can't shake off feeling that there's some truth in it - free stuff does hurt people who want to make living out of it. Especially if it's objectively good stuff.

[milejdyvan]

If you want to sell your music/comic/novel, go for it.

If you want to upload your music/comic/novel for free, go for it.

Neither is a bad thing. Paid usually means you have better promotion (like on Tapas), and free means less promotion but easier to get to than paid. It's fair. I for one never want to have my novel be a paid thing because then I am putting myself on a higher standard. I want to have people read my story for free because I don't feel right asking people for their money unnecessarily especially when I don't have a strong audience. I don't draw comics or make music but I don't see how it's any different. If you aren't "proven" people won't buy it. You have to start somewhere if you want to get better and that somewhere is free.

[starry-sea]

I don't like this take? The way major companies handle their wages and distribution hurt the industry, not indie work. I don't think anyone who reads webcomics also says they will never ever pay for physical comics again. It feels like it's putting the blame on indie creators for the failures of professional work

[Crusoe]

You can also argue the other way around. Releasing their stuff online for free initially enables those who may not have been given a chance in the 'real' comic industry a chance to make a name for themselves, grow an audience and eventually live off of or publish their work.

[bear1]

I disagree with that statement. At least mostly.
Yes, there is a chance that people rather read free stuff than looking for paid content. But, every comic or IP in general is different and unique, even those which have similar premises.
If I want to read ‘One Piece’ by Oda I have to pay in order to get it. Reading ‘billie bob’s pirate adventure’ publish free by artists X will not fulfill my need to read ‘One Piece’, simply because they are different artists with different stories (and most likely skill levels).
Same thing goes for music, you might find free music all over the place. But if you want to listen to Madonna or Cardi B, you need to spend the money....or go and get a spotify account (or whatever services people use nowadays XD)

I think the bigger issue is piracy. If I can read One Piece for free, no need to buy it. Stealing someone’s work and provide it for free, now that’s evil.
Not a providing your work for free.

I feel the sentiment of calling people evil for providing their own work for free is also highly offensive and harmful.
I mean, I get what the author is saying. But building an audience is already difficult enough with easily accessible content. It’s even more difficult if you ask people not only to read your stuff but to pay in advance for it. Most people will shy away from something like this and rather continue to consume established content with which they are familiar.
In other words, shaming people for creating free content and guilt tripping them into hiding everything they create behind a paywall will harm the indie industry.
The attitude of OP is just super flawed and not helpful for anyone, imo

[Darth_Biomech]

The attitude of OP

Whoa, hold on, I've just quoted another guy, it doesn't mean that I'm agreeing with him!!!

[bear1]

I meant the person you quoted, since their quote was the original statement this thread is based of. Sorry for not pointing it out clearly ^^”

[darthmongoose]

People still pay to read Tapas premium comics even though there are literally thousands of comics they could be reading for free on the exact same site/app. There are comparatively few free comics at the same level of popularity as premium ones on the platform, because being paid to make a comic just allows you to update more and to a higher level of quality due to not needing to spend time and energy making an income.

Like, by this logic, it's like "why would anyone read "The Witch's Throne" when they can read my fabulous comic, "Errant"? Right? They're both colourful action comedies with a shounen manga kinda feel and a quirky female protagonist, but one of them costs money to read and the other doesn't. But about a thousand times more people read The Witch's Throne... because the money goes towards things that with my budget as a free creator, I just don't have the means to match; it's consistently more polished looking, it can update more consistently and regularly because the artist won't need to prioritise their day job or get too exhausted by it to update, and it has access to things like editors to give advice on stuff like pacing/story and marketing that just overall make it a shinier, more appealing product as well as a more visible one.

[Cavechan]

If I want to read ‘One Piece’ by Oda I have to pay in order to get it.

Well now you don't even have to do that really since the WSJ app has the latest three chapters for free! Then it's only two bucks if you want access to the archive (for that and a bunch of other series).

And yeah I don't think free stuff hurts the industry at all.

[Flauschwurm]

There are different reasons for wanting to publish a comic.

a lot of people, especially beginners and first time publishers, could not in their mind justify a price tag on a project that is just a hobby/passion project, or they don't feel comfortable about charging money for their project YET since no one knows what it's about, they're not at the right skill level etc.

I whole-heartedly agree with @bear1, the industry has no right to blame Indie Comic artists for a problem they brought over themselves.

People who have always bought comics will continue to buy comics, people who will read free indie comics will aways read free indie comics. They're not quite the same target audience to begin with.

The only thing that REALLY hurts the "professional" comic industry is piracy. Thats the real problem. Not indie comics.

[Darth_Biomech]

The only thing that REALLY hurts the "professional" comic industry is piracy. Thats the real problem. Not indie comics.

Even that is debatable since it doesn't really hurt the movie or game industries, despite their cries about how they suffer from people torrenting stuff they wouldn't buy otherwise anyway. And some gamedevs even upload their games to torrents themselves.

[malwdark]

Sad truth is people don't want to pay for unknown artist's content :`D so of course big productors won't loose sells because a pair of teens uploaded their own comic to the internet. The hurtful free work is the one done for others, like if you draw a free logo or free comic for a bussiness.
(I sell my webcomic on paper btw, but only the spanish version)

[Flauschwurm]

yet comic industry works entirely different to movie/game industry :'3

Movies already make HEAPS of money with cinema releases. a cinema experience is sth you can't pirate.

Games make HEAPS of money on their release day as there is the biggest hype around the games and everyone wants to play it on day 1, where there is no pirated copy available.

Now, with comics, you usually very very quickly get pirated versions of a comic or manga as soon as it's released, which is why you virtually have no waiting time to get a pirated comic version, different to movie or games. And that is the big difference imo - that they make huge loss from beginning on, not after the big hype is over.

This is especially true with Manga where you HAVE to stay up to date to avoid spoilers, yet you cant wait to buy a legal translated version, since it can take YEARS till they are released.

[Darth_Biomech]

yet you cant wait to buy a legal translated version, since it can take YEARS till they are released.

I think you meant "if they are released"? 99.9% of the existing manga was never officially picked up in my country for example. Only the most popular out of the most popular got their legal reprints, and it doesn't even cover all of the must-read classics.

but the question is, is it still evil to support piracy in these cases.

[franzvanderlinde]

Sigh... Does public libraries hurt the industry? Does someone decide not to buy quality comics in order to read free online ones? Does reading a free comic fill your belly so you are no longer hungry and then won't buy those for sale? There are so many points being missed really... I can't judge by the quote, but the person probably has zero knowledge of the industry and want to make money without having as much quality. Guess what, people won't pay for low quality comics even if there were no free ones.

[Dane_Sherbet]

Just because an industry exists doesn't mean it always did or always will. They rise and fall, is what I mean, and it's never up to just one person. Neither is it necessarily good or bad.

For example, the music industry exists because of certain technologies and distribution networks. Long before they existed, people made their own music. They still do, but people in general used to be better at it when it was the only option. When did it become an industry? Maybe when the first specialists -- bards and minstrels -- appeared. Maybe when instrument-making became a legitimate trade. Maybe when opera became a big business, or maybe when sheet music did. That's around the time that music piracy became a thing.

But people never stopped being able to make their own music, and maybe it's better that way, even if it seems like we've passed the era of the music superstar. Similarly, maybe the comic scene is better for the direction it's been heading. It's never been easier to get into comics, or to find series that truly resonate with you. That might be more important for society than whether a relative handful of people can still make a living doing comics.

[writercynknapp]

No, it makes the industry more vibrant and inclusive. The new content brings the newest readers. It can reduce the monetization mechanisms, but those mechanisms are already under pressure from stealing copycats as it is.

[nauko]

If it's a hobby and the things artists are posting is not in response to any request I don't see the problem in posting it online without charging for it. The person you quoted is putting unnecessary pressure on hobbies that are easier to profit on and involve public interaction. There are fishers who fish to blow off steam and have no intention of selling what they caught to a fish market, should they be reprimanded for that? Same for hikers that hike, crocheters that crochet sweaters and scarves and stuff, are we going to reprimand them too because they didn't figure out a way to make their hobby profitable?

It's like telling artists and musicians that if they want to do it as a hobby, fine, but for the sake of people who want to profit off it, they should be doing it in private and not post on social media their achievements which is kind of annoying. I hate to say it but getting love from a community is a major ego boost and is partially responsible for giving an artist the confidence to improve and strive for higher goals in their work, even if one of those higher goals never is money-making.

Why should hobbyist artists/musicians/writers/etc. have to give that up to make artists who want money more secure about their money making ability? If they are a pro with money-making abilities they will find a way.

It feels like this person is making excuses tbh.

[domisotto]

Doing things just because you enjoy them is obviously isn't wrong or bad, but I still can't shake off feeling that there's some truth in it - free stuff does hurt people who want to make living out of it. Especially if it's objectively good stuff.

Oh, gosh, I had an excellent quote about free writers on the net from a published one. It was full of empathy and compassion for all of us who just want someone--anyone--even if that's just one person to see what we write.

The bottom line is that people who can make money of their creative work are very few. The rest of us are happy with just sharing it and finding a few readers here and there. It's our destiny, and if we didn't have that option, we would be worse off.

Honestly, people who can make money off their work, and are not making enough for their liking... well, maybe it's not the fault of the poor shmucks who are happy to just share and get a couple of reads. It's like an pro footballer or something complaining that locals playing in the schoolyard is stealing their thunder. We are in a different leagues, people.

[kitschensyngk]

I think that if you go into comics or any art medium just to make money, then you're doing it for the wrong reason.

Some people make comics because they enjoy them. Some people make comics because they want people to read them.

Sure, people dream of making a living off their creations, and I admit I'm one of them, but where is the heart and soul in creating something for no other reason than monetary gain?