Does your comic pass the Bechdel Test?

[jacintawibowo]

Not yet
Both time they have spoken it hasn't been about a dude so does that count?

Is there a reason it doesn't pass the second but passes the third? I'm curious! Was it the time limit constriction for the second rule? If the convo is not about a dude, then it counts =) preferably not throwaway comments like "catch this!" or "pass the ketchup", but they count as "somewhat passes" =)

The comic my team and I work on Kamikaze

I've so been meaning to read this series! <3

I kind of had in mind from the start that I wanted there to be people of color, and an equal number of men to women. It leaves a wider margin of interest, I think :> and it's fun to draw different types of people!

It totally is <3

Not sure the Bechdal test is a remotely good test of a comic or author's attitudes toward females, but Heroes for Ghosts passes with flying colors.

Congrats for passing so well! And of course this test doesn't show the author's attitudes towards ladies, never said it was. Just a test to see if two ladies talk to each other about a non-dude topic =)

So she will mostly talk about her husband. Eris will talk about her grandfather. Does that count? I never really understand this. Talking about PEOPLE is important in characters. And not talking about men is just cutting out 50% of conversation. It should be changed to not talking about men in context to romance or lack thereof.

Sorry, talking about male relatives doesn't pass the test. The third requirement is to test if your lady character's life doesn't revolve around male characters to the point it's the only thing they talk about. Even non-romantically.
Men don't take up 50% of conversations! There's plenty of conversation topics aside from men: food, other ladies, talking about "the girl herself", the environment, morals, the government, the apocalypse, your rent, a videogame you were playing, war plans, etc. lots of non-dude and non-people topics!

Bonus: idk. What does this really mean in a fantasy world anyways? The villain has purple hair and Eris's hair is red. They are pale skinned, but so are Asians and they are not white, so does that make them a person of color? Despite her red hair I thought of Eris as half Asian, half white (but it is a fantasy world so Asia is not a real thing).

(I used to be confused about this too) Think of it as a character design. If I put your character on a flashcard and showed it to an average person, will they be able to tell that your character is not white? For example, in a fantasy setting if I take Legolas from Lord of the Rings film, he's clearly a white elf. But if I take Gwendolyn from Saga, she may not be human, but it's very clear she's not white either. Same with Garnet from Steven Universe (I use her as an example a lot because of her purple/red skin) she's a rock from space, yet we know from her character design that she's not white. So if the intention of the design is to portray them as POC in a fantasy setting, then it's a pass!

I want to add my favorite manga here if I might:It is called Lupin III

Ooh I always wanted to watch it! I love the style and the charisma the characters seem to have! And yes, usually manga have all Japanese characters, which counts as a pass.

Frankly, it doesn't matter if it follows these rules or any rules. As long as it expresses creativity and is an overall good story. Hell, I have a test of my own called the BBQ Test.

I never said the Bechdel test was a judge of quality or original storytelling. You got to that conclusion on your own. This test is literally just to check if you have two lady characters that talk about a non-man topic. It's a very low bar to pass, and yet many stories don't pass.

The main character of Cosmos Song is in fact a woman of color! Considering the comic primarily takes place in the tropics, 90% of the cast are actually POC.

Cool!

[Inspector_Spinda]

Sorry, talking about male relatives doesn't pass the test. The third requirement is to test if your lady character's life doesn't revolve around male characters to the point it's the only thing they talk about. Even non-romantically.Men don't take up 50% of conversations! There's plenty of conversation topics aside from men: food, other ladies, talking about "the girl herself", the environment, morals, the government, the apocalypse, your rent, a videogame you were playing, war plans, etc. lots of non-dude and non-people topics!

oh, i see. well in that case they do talk about some of things you listed. as for non-white characters. all my characters so far have white complexions. but if what they wear and the culture they follow count my MC is not white.

[jacintawibowo]

Representation should not be important to anybody because it is a shallow, self- absorbed way to look at the world. If you cannot relate to a character on a personal level, regardless of race, gender, or religion, then I think that is something far more worth addressing than this silly litmus test. If only the whole world could hear me say, race and gender does not matter! It doesn't define who you are, it only adds to it! So why are we so absorbed in it?

In a perfect world, race, gender, and religion, shouldn't matter. We don't live in that world. Regardless of you feeling that way, it doesn't change the world we live in. That's ignoring the problem. We are not shallow for wanting to be seen and acknowledged respectfully in film. You say we should "relate to a character" on a personal level regardless of race and gender. We've been doing that with white male leads all the time. How is it when we ask for an asian or a black character lead, it's "why can't you relate to our precious white male characters? You should be able to relate to people regardless of race and gender!" My response is: why can't you relate to people regardless of race and gender? Is it because you don't find asian or black characters relate-able? Sounds like a double standard.
Literally just this past week two big budget films (Dr Strange and Ghost in the Shell) are white washing Asian characters. This is widely being talked about in creative circles. This is still a problem today. Even if you don't see that.

However, have you read half of the comics on Tapastic? Do these creators look even close to indoctrinated to think of women as accessories to men? Hahahaha! Maybe you haven't been here for long, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find somebody here who think of women as just an afterthought.

That's...why I made this thread. To ask people in the community if they passed. Don't get me wrong- I anticipated that most people would pass. Webcomic artists are diverse individuals who don't have to appeal to an editor, middle man, or industry to make stories. They make the strangest stories I've ever read with plenty lady leads and characters of color. I was simply curious about this community in general.
Also I'm not saying anyone's being indoctrinated here. I'm saying that there's an understandable chance people are being influenced by the stories of a previous generation of creators. The unique stories we find here are the result of people being aware of the problem and actively avoiding those cliches. Some comics here do it, some don't. That's just how it is.

(As a side note, when I do write a comic that has a story line, you bet your bottom dollar that it'll pass this test, and by no means on purpose, lest I be a shallow, pseudo-righteous man of little substance)

Thanks? I guess. People will appreciate that. Though you really shouldn't call them "pseudo-righteous or shallow". That's...really mean.
Great that you're making stories, creativity is cool and all... just don't be mean about representation. It's a really hot topic in comics and a lot of people care about it. Don't be calling them names for...adding women and POC characters in their story.

[demthorshie]

(As a side note, when I do write a comic that has a story line, you bet your bottom dollar that it'll pass this test, and by no means on purpose, lest I be a shallow, pseudo-righteous man of little substance)

I'm scratching my head at this somewhat. How can adding POC and women in to a comic be considered pseudo-righteous and of little substance? Are you saying these groups can only be "the other" and not the default?

[bakasama25]

I think he's talking about putting in minority characters for the sake of "diversity" over such basic things like well plotted stories or character development.

[scythe]

"Ouch!" said the nail, "You just hit me on the head!"

[demthorshie]

That makes a lot more sense I guess.

[JigokuNeko]

I seriously doubt tokenism by itself is capable of ruining a story. Rather, by seeing tokenism in a story you can more clearly see that some characters are very flat in comparison to others (most likely characters that reflect the author's own experiences or wish fulfillment).

For my own stuff, I find it difficult to give it a pass or a fail. I mostly do slice of life romances and while female characters may start talking amongst themselves about other things, they will more often than not end up talking romance. So I guess that's a fail if applied strictly. But I enjoy populating my stories with female characters that are distinct and different from one another and the gender ratio is about 50:50 or slightly skewed for women. Honestly, I wasn't very well educated about diversity when I started out making stories but I'm working on it with the newer stuff. For example, the latest comic features a Latina main character and when I compare her to the mains in my previous stories I can see how they were very much same-y. Not necessarily bad or a carbon copy but enough to see that it was a bit of a character creation rut. Ultimately I think it will always help the narrative if the author is willing to see past their own little bubble.

[Vikiro_Hop]

This thread became a lot more interesting as it went along.

The short of it is no, my gag comic is based on me and my friends in a parody of sorts and has very few characters. Technically it passes the first and third but to be honest that is sorta stretching. Most of the comics are just the main character (male) talking to some other people so it doesn't really have a lot of room for that. That being said one of the two female characters is way more developed than any of the other recurring characters in the story. (working on that)
That being said it's a dumb gag comic and most of the characters seem like they would rather be anywhere else so I dont think not passing this test in my case is a big deal.

On one hand using representation as a check list for each story is stupid in my opinion. Throwing in characters of race or gender for the sake of representation is disrespectful, and your writing will not really benefit because of it.

On the other hand writing female characters from a male perspective is not that difficult. There is not some other language you need to learn, girls are not an alien species. If you recognize the physiological aspects of it and just tweek a few things its not that difficult.

I remember specifically wanting to go out and write women protagonists and worrying that I would just come off as a complete idiot. So i decided to read some works by female writers and artists. I started with ranma and fruits basket (did not get far into fruits basket for a number of reasons.) The more I looked into it though, the more I decided that the writing doesn't change much. Chicks and dudes are surprisingly alike.

[hushicho]

The whole "test" was based on a cynical joke strip, and it's really become overblown. As someone has noted (and correctly), The Bikini Carwash Company passes the test as-is, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's an egalitarian oeuvre.

The strip, as I recall, was talking about Alien. Alien is a notable film for a number of reasons, but one of those is that during the scripting phase, the characters were referred to by surnames only and did not have gender attributed to them until the parts were cast, which was by who seemed to fit the role best. All of the characters had more going on than fixating on someone of another gender (and in the original script, it was discussed that due to the long hauls the characters did, they tended to help each other out in the intimacy department).

I do applaud efforts to introduce more diversity organically into storytelling, but I think this would be better retooled into something more helpful to creators and the creative process. Like asking, for example:

• Do your characters have lives outside of the main conflict, or do they exist only for the main character? It's a tempting tendency to have characters outside of the protagonist be basically window-dressing and nothing more. If characters never show any personality besides their function as accessories to the main protagonist or perfunctory roles to advance the plot, it may be worthwhile to think about developing them a bit more.
• Are they defined by their gender, ethnicity, or something like that? It's an unfortunate tendency, especially in American superhero-genre comics, for characters to act as "examples" based on one or two social labels. Does the character have more to them than that, or are they just a "poster child" for one or more social labels?
• Are you conflating race with ethnicity? They are not the same thing, and wiping out or denying a character's ethnic, social, or cultural heritage based on their appearance or skin tone is not only not okay, it's limiting in terms of narrative too.

And perhaps most important of all:

• Do you enjoy writing the character? Because if not, maybe you should concentrate on characters you enjoy writing. Just tossing in characters because you think it's expected, to try and diversify, can lead to exploitative presentation, and it can cause resentment both in the author and readers.

I am glad it was pointed out that the Bechdel question is a bit long in the tooth by now. I just wish we could come up with some solid questions that would help creators to be mindful of what they're creating and why. There's no such thing as a foolproof test, but by asking questions and using a fairly Socratic approach, we surely can help creators to strengthen and develop their creations.

[TheVoidchildProject]

My comic Voidchild can be found here:

https://m.tapastic.com/episode/323459

The premise so far is very introductory. My protagonist so far has just arrived in
The fictional city of Victoria, a hotspot for paranormal occurrences. She herself possess some sort of paranormal ability, not yet thoroughly explained. She gets pulled into one of the many intrigues happening in this city before she knows it. The series is characterised by mystery, super powers, action, melodrama and hopefully sprinkled with a bit of humour too.

As for the questions:

Q: Have more than one female character... (preferably named, and have spoken lines)

A: Yes it does.

Q: ...That talk to each other at some point in the story... (preferably hold a conversation as opposed to saying a single line to each other)

A: I can think of two examples so far, but honestly I'm not sure it'd qualify through the Bechdel test. Because the conversations are kind of brief. It should in the future.

Q: ...About something other than a man (preferably not a filler conversation)

A: So far there are definitely conversations in the comic that qualify for this. But as stated above the conversations are brief. As my main two protagonists so far are female and male and have the most exchanges it kind of makes this a bit difficult.

Good idea trying to run one of these tests.

[Shanny8]

Does my comic...

1. Have more than one female character... Yes. 2 single moms, the female lead, and a villainess.

2. ...That talk to each other at some point in the story... yes. The 2 single moms are next door neighbors, with the female lead being the daughter of one of em.

3. ...About something other than a man - at this point, I cant say. The fem lead & the villainess have a talk in regard to the male lead, but it wasnt the garden variety convo(unless a talk about claiming corpses fits the bill).

4. ...Are there any women of color in your story? YES. The fem lead is an African American(which of course makes one of the single mothers AA), and the villainess is Asian.

shruggs.

[UrMom]

My comic, 'Void: A Guide to a Healthy Relationship' is about a guy named Apollo running into a janitor who looks eerily like his deceased childhood friend, and proceeds to be this persons bestest best friend in hopes of rekindling a long lost friendship under the assumption this person is his friend.
1. Yes, most of the people around my main characters are females.
2. A lot of them work together, so yes.
3. I've never been able to relate to people doing "guy talk", and get kind creeped out when trying to make characters do it, so yes. Although I'm not sure how much it counts if they talk about a non-binary at some point who was AAB male.

Despite this, I'm not sure whether my comics would pass the Bechdel test or not. While I do have multiple females in my comic, none of them talk about dudes, and most of them are significantly more accomplished in something than my male characters (seriously, I tend to make chicks doctors, or scientists, or owners of profitable business, or generally chalked full of this earthy wisdom if they're old ladies, while my dudes are like... deadbeat drug addicts); none of them are main characters. Which I feel should be important seeing as how having super awesome females in the lime light gives better representation than them as super awesome side character, and it's insanely rare to female mains in a story.
I don't feel very comfortable saying I pass a test about females, when my three main characters are two dudes and a non-binary.

[Michelle]

At the moment my comic isn't passing the test, since currently the cast is mostly the lead female and her male companion D: But in terms of the overall story, there are a lot more female characters in the next chapter and beyond. So in those terms...
1. Have more than one female character...
Yes! At the moment I have 4 important female characters.
2. ...That talk to each other at some point in the story... (preferably hold a conversation as opposed to saying a single line to each other)
Yes, most of these ladies are going to have to work alongside each other.

3. ...About something other than a man (preferably not a filler conversation, a talk that has substance to the story).
Definitely, each character has a stake in the main plot that is separate from the male characters.

Another bonus rule I like to add is: are there any women of color in your story?
The main protagonist is Asian, and an upcoming key character is African American.

As mentioned though, the test has no bearing on story quality, but rather points out a trend of excluding women from a lot of narratives. Most of all, it's interesting to see how people react to the test..

[TheVoidchildProject]

(I missed one questions, the bonus one)

Q: Are there any women of color in your story?

A: Not yet, there will be. But for now only men of color.

[james19931234]

In my horror series there are two main female characters and one male character. But I made it clear to my writer neither of the girls will fall in love with the man. I've always hated that a lot of horror genre stuff assumes that if a man saves a woman then they'll instantly fall in love....like really? Why? Gratefulness doesn't have to be repaid in romance(in my opinion). If anything in my series I'll ensure each character saves each other equally. Well maybe except the one girl character she'll become unable to help later in the story.

[nattbear]

I suppose mine doesn't pass yet, but i'm just doing the first chapter... !!!!!! I'm sure it'll pass when i reach chapter 3+ ;x

But answering the test with the chapter i'm doing now....

About my comic Savage Minds

1.Have more than one female character...(preferably named, and have spoken lines)
Yes, there are currently three female characters.

2. ...That talk to each other at some point in the story...
Sure. They're the most talkative in this chapter.

3. ...About something other than a man
As they are deciding about the future of a man, this one my comic doesn't pass in chapter one D;

Bonus are there any women of color in your story?
Sure, Arlene, the youngest of the leaders, is a woman of color and is an important character too.

When I reach chapter three, Savage Minds will definitely pass the third question ;D.

[Morair]

I find this video the other day and it made me chuckle so I thought I'd share it here https://youtu.be/4AvuMzSkees

[Vanzish]

Ok here goes. My comic Insane Five is mainly about five teens who try to cope with the world. It's a fantasy and adventure story, it has humor and occasionally satire, explores the human psyche and shows that threats don't only come in form of big bad monsters, but also inner demons or despicable human beings. I also try to break conventions every now and again.

1. Have more than one female character... (preferably named, and have spoken lines)
   Yes. There are plenty female characters.

2. ...That talk to each other at some point in the story... (preferably hold a conversation as opposed to saying a single line to each other)
   Yes, that's gonna happen as well.

3. ...About something other than a man (preferably not a filler conversation, a talk that has substance to the story).
   Yes, i just can't spoil anything.

Another bonus rule I like to add is: are there any women of color in your story?
Yeah. In fact, there is one on the first page. But there are more to come.

[raelcsART]

I think my comic Starlit passes? I'm still starting out, but my biologically female (they'll be using agendered pronouns) is POC and the only time men come up in a conversation is if its talking about a character as a character, that happens to be male.

And their best friend is female, so lots of talking. Being the lead character also helps meaning the conversations are substantial with meaning. So yes to more than one female character, heck the royal hierarchy in my comic is matriarchal, they talk to each other in some point in the story and about something other than a man.

I'm also gonna throw out there I'm aiming to not only have POCs but I want to have all sorts of body types and characters of all ages. I might not be able to do it but I'd like to try! I just want a mix bag as much as I can!