8 / 16
Apr 2021

I was binge reading a comic these past few days, and can't help noticing the complexity of the story and the character's motive, alongside the politics dilemma and other problems. Somehow, it reminds me of (I think) a tumblr post I saw a while back, about how Hunger Games was amazing because the writer has something she needs to convey; and then another post about how Divergent was a perfect "default" YA that makes people realize how hollow some YA can be. It makes me think about all the fantasy stories I can remember, and things each story want to convey.

Well, I'm writing a Fantasy story. It's a trilogy, and the first book has been finished long ago. It's been revised, writing-wise, for at least three times, and I'm never satisfied, but also don't want to lose myself in it. Well, the premise itself is simple: two individuals have to love each other in order to save the world. But that's... that. Now, I think it feels shallow, but at the same time, it is a story that I poured my heart into. I don't want to rewrite it, as I either will fall back in its shallow loop, or that I will lose my interest in it. Book 2, which I'm writing right now, might be salvageable. Ideas keep comming to my head and that I start to explore aspects of the story with more 'what if's and patch my world. However, yet again, I don't have a solid lesson I can convey.

I don't have a political or moral value on the story. I don't have a cry for the future that I want to tell in the story. It's just a fantasy, about love and overcoming hardship together. And, I can't help feel that my story is... meaningless. Underwhelming. Not good enough. I mean, sure, I love the premise; sure, it isn't half bad. Yet, is my love for it enough? Is it worth being published, being posted? Is it worth to continue it, despite knowing full well it doesn't have great value? Should I rewrite it, despite not knowing what I want to say? Do I have to find a real life lesson that I can convey?

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    Apr '21
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    Apr '21
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You don't have to do anything. It's your comic and you can do whatever you want with it as long as it's not boring.

The "message" of your story doesn't have to be profound, clever or new to make it a good read. It can be as simple as "friendship makes us better people", "love can conquer hate", "even the humblest person can make a difference."

In your case, your core message is one I don't think anyone gets tired of; love is a powerful force, and sometimes saving one person is effectively saving the world. Sounds fine to me! Sure, I like to make these very political plots, like Errant is about how patriarchal power structures can make even a good person participate in bad things and how redemption takes work, understanding and healing... but that doesn't mean I think every story needs that kind of message. In fact I think fiction would be insufferable if every creator made such overwrought works! :sweat_02: I love that the message of Spider-verse was simply "anyone can be a hero". That's a great movie. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is just "Real family bonds are with people who aren't perfect but who care about you." Frankenstein is "You must take responsibility for what you create." Simple can be great!

Do what feels right to you. I think sometimes we all just need a simple story of "things are hard, but stick to it, your love means the whole world to somebody."

Every story has a message, it's the values you teach by what are the rewards for character's actions. But, if you deliberately tell a story to teach a leasson, it tends to come off as preachy
Just compare LotR to Narnia, they have pretty similar core values, but one's a classic and the other can be quite obnoxious to most people

Not necessarily.
For my story for example basically if you play the game related you know how things end. The whole interest of my story is how and why, so really there is no lesson tbh.

Nah, not really. I really love fantasy stories because they are perfect mediums to convey heavy socio-political messages, but not every story needs to be about that ^u^ I write that stuff because I enjoy doing that and I feel I have something to say!

As darthmongoose said, you don't need to write that yourself! Sometimes a "simple" message is amazing if it's just written well. That's like, half the reason why I enjoy kids animation so much lol. Even if the messages are simple, I find them a lot better to read more often than stories that say absolutely nothing, or worse, that try to say something but ultimately says nothing.

Basically: I read some stories because I enjoy reading abut heavy stuff, but sometimes I wanna forget about the world and read something light :))

I've had this problem too with my own fantasy comic, but when I think about the stories that I really love, it's the ones that deeply move me, and not because I felt like I "learned a lesson" from them. I do think a good story speaks in some way to "what it means to be human" and connects with people, but it doesn't have to have a "moral." It's been a really long time since I've read Divergent, but I think one of the reasons why the Hunger Games may have been more compelling is simply the character development. Katniss, from what I remember, was a much more interesting character than whoever the main girl in Divergent was.

When I started my own comic, I felt like I had no themes, but as I've been working on it I'm realizing that the some of these themes are arising organically solely because it's something that is personal or interesting to me, such as personal vs social responsibility and how we're affected by our parents choices. But when I started the story, I would not have been able to tell you that that was something I was exploring via this fantasy world. I guess my advice is to just keep writing, see what you find compelling, make sure the characters are multi-dimensional and you'll probably develop the themes naturally as you go along.

I think- as a story teller, it's not our job to impart this philosophical wisdom to our readers. As a story teller, I believe our job is to entertain and to create a world for our reader to experience and delve in.

For example, there was an actual course in University regarding Harry Potter. I took the course as a bird course. The professor started to analyze the story and nit pick at every POSSIBLE interpretation of that story. I started to think - I wonder if the author actually intended to have all of these symbolism? I think the beauty of story telling is that you make people talk about it and they can come up with their own analysis, which brings a whole new meaning to your story.

Not to say, you should write just a shallow story - but, if you spend too much time trying to think of a symbolism for each scene and dialogue that you write... I think it could end up being too messy, or too convoluted.

Long story short, if your story is about two characters that has to fall in love with each other in order to save the world - then that doesn't make it a shallow idea. What makes it shallow is creating characters with little to no thought and writing conflict or scenes that bring no value to the growth of your characters and etc.

For your first story, you can spice it up by creating a more rounded character with complex feelings and personality. Perhaps character A wants to defy fate but character B is resigned to the task. With two different outlooks, they managed to fall in love despite the circumstance that forced them to be together in the first place. Sorry for the rambling!

I think trying to force a "message" or themes can be detrimental too. Just write whatever comes comfortably for you, and the readers themselves will interpret different themes from your work. You seem to have an overarching message already, and sometimes a simple message is enough.

Good character development and an engaging plot is really all you need in my opinion.

Years ago I got a valuable lesson from a boss about fiction.

All through my school years it seemed teachers kept pounding the idea of fiction needing "meaning" and to "teach you the human condition" and it had to be "important."

Fast forward to telling the boss about a great movie I'd seen over the weekend. A silly comedy that had me laughing from the opening sequence.

He stopped me and said, "do I have to think when I see it? All week long I have to think and oversee people and worry about projects. I don't want to try and relax and then be forced to think. I just want to enjoy myself."

You see, I worked for an architectural/engineering firm doing big highway projects in the US and overseas. If you know anything about architects and engineers there is a constant struggle between them. Cecil (yes that was the boss's name) had to oversee basically a bowl of oil and water that never mixed.

I thought about that and it changed my writing. I realized I didn't have to write anything meaningful and thoughtful or "important." My importance was to entertain because there are a lot of people who need to step away from the cares heaped upon them by the world around them and just find something that takes their minds off of it all.

So, my response to you, born of a true life experience is... No. You DO NOT have to teach a lesson.

As much as I love imbuing my stories with messages about human nature, that isn't totally necessary. You can write what you want; above all, people love a good story.

But you know, I think every story at least has a 'takeaway': something that the reader can generally understand about the characters or the plot. It doesn't have to be a network of complex moral messaging; it can just be...a thing. Like 'this character's pride will be their downfall', or 'sometimes kindness is its own reward'.

You say your story is about two people who have to love each other, but what does that mean? Is it that they're being forced into a situation like an arranged marriage? ('sacrifices must be made for the greater good', 'love and marriage aren't the same thing', 'sometimes true love can bloom in the most unlikely places')
Or is it that they just need to learn how to care for each other and value each other despite their differences? ('we're all just people in the end', 'a new friend can give you a new outlook on life', 'it costs nothing to be kind')

You may think of your story as just 'stuff happens', but there's still plenty you can take away from it either way if you think of it like this...and this is just general stuff, I'm sure if you look at the specific journeys of the characters, there are even more observations you can make.

In my personal opinion, a deep, meaningful message is completely worthless if the story itself isn't entertaining. The creative work should just keep the reader engaged. Grab a hold of their interest. Now, some people live for the meaning-behind-the-scenes, but not me, at any rate. I don't give a shit about the political messages behind say, Animal Farm or the Hunger Games because overall I was just bored with the story.

But also like, I don't really give a shit about heavy political or philosophical discussion in the first place so.....

Architect checking in, can confirm :joy:

Definitely agree though! Just being entertaining is enough. If an author has a big message that they want to tell through their story, then that's great too but I don't think that's a prerequisite for a work of fiction.

One thing to add to this discussion, is that even the smallest message can also keep your direction while writing. As everyone said, you don't need a message and even if you made one by accident, it doesn't need to be incredible or new - but just like themes and motifs, it can make sure you don't get lost in your story.

Like for example, say you started with the story about a love saving the world, but you got really interested in the mechanics behind that power and it ended up turning into a lot of metaphysical discussion about what love truly means. You can go either way with your story, but a reader might get confused on what you wanted to do, and it might even sap some of your motivation if you reread it and find out you either didn't enjoy the start, or you liked it better then. This applies a bit more if you're a pantser than a planner, of course, but when there's that downtime and you're not sure what to write next, "what do I want the reader to think about, at the end?" is a good starting point for the next idea. It can be "giant robots are cool" or "love is powerful, as long as you're having fun yourself.

The shortest answer here is...

Absolutely not. And if you feel you want your story to have more depth, themes (ideas) beat ham-fisted Aesops every day, twice on Sundays.

What is a theme? It's essentially a running idea that's frequently brought up if not downright central to the story, such as moral ambiguity, death and mortality, the futility of teenage romance, etc. Rather than telling you something, directly or indirectly, a theme brings up a topic, presents a portrayal of the idea, and lets the reader draw their own conclusions on the results.

A theme can be more immediate to the plot or circumstance of the story and is often far more engaging than simply trying to force an Aesop that will actively harm the plot's integrity or the worldbuilding's integrity. For example, a major theme I had in my head is moral ambiguity or gray and gray/gray and black morality. While this is more of a background idea that helped steer me forward, it manifested in the moral costs of fighting a war against a drug-dealing mafia.


Of course, the big dirty secret they don't want you to know is that ideas are cheap, but good execution is worth its weight in gold.