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Nov 2018

So just speculating like an idiot, but I saw this recently (my sympathies to Tom Akel) and it got me thinking:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/11/06/tom-akel-fired-from-line-webtoon/29

Do you think that Line is going to be changing their approach in the coming months? Or do you have an idea on what they could change to be better? How do you feel about Line as a reader vs a creator now that industry has grown?

If I remember correctly from an interview, Tom Akel saw Line as the "youtube" of webtoons with a comic for everyone. I think they've been pretty successful and like that they have a diverse line-up for featured, but maybe there's such a thing as too much diversity. It seems like some of the "western-styled" comics that debuted in October weren't received well as far as numbers go (relatively speaking and one in particular I feel bad for) and Line readers or the webtoon market is geared towards the more manga/manhwa style. Traditional or "western" comics have readers (lots of really successful indiegogo campagns this year) but maybe not for Line when they already have such a large Discover section to tap into. Or maybe it's just me wanting to see more of their korean webtoons translated, since that's why I downloaded the app in the first place. Also, a couple of featured have been "revived" after a while, which made me realize that Line is pretty hands off with their creators (Jason Brubaker has said this as well) and doesn't seem to axe featured comics like in the manga industry. I'm mixed about this. I know creators like to have control and love their stories, but I can only work on so many comics in my lifetime and wouldn't mind being told "hey, you can do better" if it's true. I'm redoing a comic for the 3rd time, its not so bad.

Finally, there's an increase in competition in the past year. It was mainly just Line and Tapas for awhile when it came to webtoons, but now there's growing competition from Lezhin, WebComics, TappyToon (has a successful Kickstarter campaign22 going), etc. Toomics is one I'm excited about since they have really great webtoons on there. I think Webnovel also added comics. But basically there's quite a few newcomers and Line, though overwhelming popular, is still dependent on us, the creators who make the comics. Growing options for publishing is good news for us and I might make another thread about this since comics are changing fast. Do you as a creator feel like moving your comic to an alternative publisher would be a good idea? Is monetization a factor for you or is Line's huge traffic too enticing? Or would you prefer to go independent?

Sorry for all the rambling and thank you for reading this far, but been awhile since I've caught up with what's happening in comics. I started making comics about two years ago and so much has happened since then, and much thanks to this forum for being here along the way! :slight_smile:

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There are 92 replies with an estimated read time of 23 minutes.

Personally I don't care what happens as I don't make nor intend to make money with webtoons, however I wish they'd push for more quality and weed out a lot of creators. A lot of the comics being promoted are super similar in terms of quality and style.

Honestly this is the biggest problem I have with webcomics, creator control often equals less quality control. That's also why I don't read a lot of webcomics, I know people make comics for different reason but way too many people want to make their dream story rather than trying to make a good story. So if line can solve this more power to them, I just think webcomics are way too amateurish regardless of the platform.

I don't know why, but this thing makes me NERVOUS....

Not your fault, but I only put my webCOMIC on Webtoons. soooooo That is why...
But I really not sure why I'm nervous.
Maybe it's because my Series is highly dependent on the comment section of Webtoons...
If something bad happen... I don't know what to do... I hope there will be less drastic change(s)
this time around

I believe they are losing/bleeding money investing in Western comics where they are pretty much competing against established brands such as DC/Marvel/Image etc.

Webtoons is geared more to young adult and teens who seek manga/manwa/manhua.

This is a drastic shift but I've seen this coming.

We shall see how this goes. We might be seeing more manga/anime style comics.

If they have his position open, I might apply. HAHA (jk. not kidding)

I can definitely see where you're coming from, and its one of the biggest criticisms of Line. Its especially hearthbreaking for me when I see a story with good art but lacking in story. Admittedly, I'm not subscribed to many comics on Line, and it takes a bit of digging through Discover to find one I like since I'm picky (despite also uploading there myself haha . . .). Webtoons is a relatively new format, and though there are definitely some that have impressed me (like White Horse or Her Summon), most are not on Line. Its a saturated market and my time is very limited, so when I do find time I'm gonna look for high quality art and story.

Toomics finally got around making an English version of their site? I think it's time to update korean webtoon wikia for me.

What are you defining as a "good" story and "dream" story?
I understand it if you say they are cliche or just done purely to seek money, but someone who wants to write/draw/create would surely do what he/she/they wants to do.
Art is subjective. You can criticize it by having in mind a general audience and it's own points that could possibly distinguish it from others, but it in my opinion words like good or bad should never be said.

Idk, I don't wanna sound rude, just addressing something I feel is important.

Head of Content is a nice sounding title lol. Think of the fancy LA office and the parties you could host at conventions~

I have similar predictions. I was worried that because I'm one of those young people seeking manga/manhwa/manhua that I was conflating myself with Line's general audience, but when you look through Discover its pretty apparent that the manga/anime style is what readers just enjoy. Its odd to me that they'd move away from this when the readers on Discover are also the ones with the highest retention rate (probably) and most likely to visit frequently (probably).

Not to say its a totally bad idea to have "a comic for everyone," diversity and unique/creative content can be a strength. But to take the risk of investing in comics which are usually not popular with the audience, and then basically let these comics continue for as long as the creators want (as far as I know) seems like a bad move from a business perspective. I've even seen some of these comics go on hiatus for forever it seems, and like, is Line still paying them.

Ayy good idea~ And yeah I was waiting for awhile since I'm a fan of a few of their comics but hate reading webtoons on pc. They launched their app rather recently.

Sorry to but in and no mean to offend, but could you address this topic in a new thread maybe ("Is there an objectively good/bad comic?" or something like that). I feel like this an important and interesting topic definitely worth discussing, and so deserves its own thread . . . also so we can keep this one on topic.

I'm an old fogey so I was raised almost exclusively on western style comics ... the manga influx didn't even start until late high school...and Heavy Metal was the best source to check out European styles.

But I appreciate good storytelling in any form... so my bias is minimal.

I don't think what they were doing over there was a bad business model at all. It was forward thinking enough to recognize trends/tastes can shift but still providing enough of what was hot to sustain readership. If you want to watch what happens to a medium that doesn't adapt to appeal to new/shifting trends look at mainstream Marvel/DC. As their potential audience drifted away, they triple downed to pandering to an aging shrinking core audience. They've basically become IP libraries for other mediums...they have to keep pimping BIG events to soak every cent out of pockets now.

If you want to see desperation reduced to a business model, look up the Evergreen marketing plan. It's downright scary and cynical.

But that's the future you're asking for if you ONLY produce one type of product and excluding any potential new directions.

I don't really think this affects as much. A series lacking in story can still be entertaining with things like characters and art style however. I rarely find the opposite to be true. Having something lack in artwork pushes people away before they even have a chance to read it. Which is precisely why I mentioned quality of the comics. Art is subjective to a point but like all things there are trends like you and @seru noted about the manga/manwha style that people like so if the Head of content is picking things outside that standard of quality it could affect the overall readership.

Sure it may bring in readers but if they aren't the kind of readers that would read other series that aren't like it what's the point? If more readers are reading comics from discover and the promoted ones aren't as popular as they used to be you are going to have a problem especially if you are paying the promoted series and they aren't bringing in the money.

Honestly after reading re-reading the whole thing it seems like they will probably start being more strict on what series they take and don't. I guess it's good for growth but after a while when that boom stagnates something has to change. So they are probably going to replace the Tom dude with someone

I think that would be more true if they were selling the comics. All comics on webtoon are free and they make all there money elsewhere. So if their core audience isn't reading these western styled comics as much as other things than it is a bad business model, especially if they are paying them base pay without proper editing of their content. As the OP stated Line doesn't seem to axe featured comics. However there is no information on this so it could just be nothing and they could have removed him because maybe he was farting too much)

I wasn't going to respond to this because I though it was off topic but it leads to a great point. Art is subject until you are a business or a professional. As an almost professional artist my art quality and writing affects how much people are willing to pay me. Especially true if people are willing to do better quality at the same price and speed.

There is a standard where people are willing to pay for content. It's fine now because they don't charge for it but eventual with the paid competition having higher quality content Line needs to change it's business model if it wants to keep making money. Art quality and writing does affect readership. If Line doesn't make money from these apps which I'm pretty sure their funding comes from Naver and other advertising apps it will be hard to keep this going if your profit is down more than 60%.
Assuming this is correct.

However this is all speculation.


But the marketing strategy would still be based on appealing to the greatest potential amount of viewers to maximize ad revenue across the board...selling them stats to the total number of viewers to the site.

So let's say manga/manwa/manhua fans constitute 95% percent of the site's viewers...then you're probably doing just fine at reaching manga/manwa/manhua fans. The market for growth potential is potential readers NOT fans of that style, and not already on Webtoons. Taking a few big swings at getting them signed up...then you push the other content as well.

That's a sound strategy for potential growth.

@skicoak oof every one of the ads they recommended were the type I ignore. .. also adblock lol. And really liked Heavy Metal, guys like Moebius were a huge inspiration to me.

I mean, I can't judge Line's decisions too much since I don't have the numbers, but if they're really that desperate for growth I'm not sure that was the smartest way to go about it. Its not like its their first time publishing western style comics, so they already knew it doesn't do as well (the ranking is quite clear on this), and then they don't axe comics that are below quotas or there's one with a 5/10 star rating (which is really bad for a featured comic). Not axeing makes sense when they're just moving a discover comic to featured since they know it already has an audience. But they came out with completely new comics and were banking on big names like Stan Lee, which did get them new readership, but those readers are also gonna look at what else the app has to offer and possibly just leave (don't have the data) with low engagement, and therefore less ad revenue.

And there is also the problem with becoming an IP library, but I don't know if that's too bad considering their revenue is through ads.
Edit: actually it is an issue in the sense that it bolsters Line's competitors, so I see what you're saying. You can post your comic on Line, build an audience, and then once a publisher takes it up your audience gets a notice "hey my comic is moving to x so head on over there," driving traffic towards a competitor.

But they also sponsored some ads with big youtubers and that was a good decision I think. And I like the variety they offer. It'd kinda suck if all their featured comics were anime/manga style and romance (don't even read these myself). Though they might've went a bit overkill with the contest, I think it went well. And travelling to conventions and selling merch seems like a good idea to me. So I agree with many of their business practices, but if they're trying to tap into new readership I think they should've gone for . . . well. . . weebs. But I'm just rambling and without the numbers can't really know.

@okellymx oh I don't really separate characters and story haha, but for me if I find a story boring after 20 chapters I drop it. While I can tolerate iffy/mediocre art if the story is good and communicated well. Not every artist is a good storyteller. But if you're being paid, both art and story should be up to par.